[app_Developer]

The fact that Prem double down, a month ago throws things a bit. Why would he be buying knowing the quarter is down. As a matter of fact, why was he buying at all, considering he knew the co ceos before the collapse. Maybe there's something that could turn sentiment.
The results of the strategic review should be mentioned, and hopefully concluded with some positive results in terms of direction.

Because at this point he is as emotionally invested as anyone. Human beings are human beings, and this is a normal tendency we all have.

[Superfly_FR]

It has been stated here that "we" may hit the $5 down anytime.
Let me precise again that my trust is in the future of RIM; It's no spiel, it's long-term (3-5 years) and tiny investment. As expected, latest RIM market shares are already reported bad for the N.A so that the stock won't give good news until ... well, you know what.

I don't know what P.W had in mind, but I believe he won't be what he is if the emotional part of his strategy was over 30% or such ...

As a conclusion, if my bank account was filled enough, I'll go for another averaging buy. Unfortunately, it's not the case.

[abwan11]

Prem was/is between a rock and a hard place. He could average down and hope to minimize his loss or just bite the bullet and take a huge loss and bail out all together.

Carl Icahn bought in the 20s, and bailed at 15. He followed up by saying, he made a mistake. Prems purchase is in the billions. He must see something there. His influence can be dangerous for those who follow, if he's bluffing.

[njblackberry]

Billions?

From Bloomberg.com

Fairfax, an insurer run by Toronto-based investor Prem Watsa, owns 51.9 million RIM shares, according to a regulatory filing today. It held 26.8 million shares as of April 1, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The company raised its stake to 9.9 percent, worth about $351 million.

[randall2580]

my friend @SuperFly and I have had this ongoing conversation and I will start it again, buying scale down a stock that has at least one more bad quarter to report is a dangerous game. If, as we all hope and expect, BB10 is a tremendous hit in early 2013 there will be plenty of time to buy this stock even at a higher price. If you look at Apple - the stock I read here constantly we want RIM to emulate, you didn't have to buy anywhere close to the low once they changed the narrative and more importantly changed their fundamentals. RIM needs to do both before they are a buy again and if the do and if you buy at 8 or 9 instead of 5 or 7, that difference won't be important to where they are headed.

And as for Prem you shouldn't just assume because he doubled down you should too. Even Warren Buffet takes losses from time to time. There is a post just above me that Icahn admitted to taking a loss on RIM. Smart people don't hit 1.000 and they don't have to. Prem has written his losses to the market and he's still standing.

[abwan11]

Billions?

From Bloomberg.com

Fairfax, an insurer run by Toronto-based investor Prem Watsa, owns 51.9 million RIM shares, according to a regulatory filing today. It held 26.8 million shares as of April 1, according to data compiled by Bloomberg. The company raised its stake to 9.9 percent, worth about $351 million.

Ya, billions.

351 million is what the 9.9 percent are worth today. From what I can gather prem has 15% of rim with a average price (mentioned) of $20+


INSTITUTION NAME . SHS HELD % RPT DATE
Hamblin Watsa Investment Counsel Ltd. 26,848,500 5.1 06-30-12

HOLDER NAME
Fairfax Financial Holdings Ltd 51,854,700. 9.9 07-09-12

[njblackberry]

Suit yourself. It's not billions.
Have you considered hedging?

[abwan11]

75 million shares x 20 = 1.5 billion

Hedged? He would still have to purchase the shares. Are you suggesting he bought puts? Then he would to have to put up more money to buy them. If he wrote so wrote calls against them then he would receive a credit but the shares would be a debit regardless.

[the_sleuth]

As others have mentioned, I don't see a catalyst for RIMM stock this year. I think everyone will be surprised as to how low it will go in stock price.

Also many Pros have tried to find a bottom on this stock only to be burned. Prem Watsa broke one of the golden rules of investing--never add to a losing position. RIMM stock price is down over 54% since the beginning of the year.

Nokia and Microsoft showcased today the new Nokia Windows 8 phones and NOK stock is down over 15%, just today!

Let this be an example to the Joes. Don't assume the stock price will rise once the product is unveiled and launched. No one truly knows what consumer response will be. This is what makes it fascinating to watch from the sidelines.

[varunsain]

All people who buy RIM Shares >> ROCK!!!!!!!!!!!

[njblackberry]

Why do they rock?

[varunsain]

Because they are smart and going to make a huge profit soon??

[njblackberry]

Glad you put the question marks there. As RIM has hit another all time low, there really isn't much further down it can go.

Huge profits.. Not if they bought too high...

[varunsain]

Mr. MartyMcfly once taught me something about Shorting stock. So maybe, the lower it goes.. the better?

And for the people who buy it at the all time low? Hmm..

The ??? is for 'HOW HARD IS IT TO UNDERSTAND?'

[BitPusher2600]

For the amount of money you'd blow to go out to eat a few times in say a month, you could pick up a small handfull of RIM shares. You can't approach it with the attitude of "i'm going to make money" or "i'm going to lose money."

Treat it as blow money. At that point, you are not losing a thing, and also you are giving people who don't belong on the CrackBerry forums anyway just another angle with which to bash on both RIM and it's loyal supporters. And what the h*ll? If you look at the whole thing as some recreational spending and RIM did so happen to climb up the scales again, you made some extra bucks.

Written from BitPusher's BlackBerry 9650 using Tapatalk

[njblackberry]

How many times in the last six months have people predicted the low for RIMM?
No one woke up yesterday and said "RIM hit a low, let's go out and buy". Volume wasn't heavy.

Everyone who buys now is buying from someone else who lost money. All time lows will do that. Those people don't feel like they rocked.

Next quarterly report is September 27th. Let's see what the stock is then.

It may be a buy then. Or perhaps another spot to average down.

[varunsain]

njblackberry I think you're confusing this thread.. It's not about people who are losing money on the RIMM stock.. It's about people who see the stock as a low buy option NOW and want to make an investment in the tech sector.

Winning and losing is directly proportionate in stocks but no ones discussing that here..

It's just that the stock is at a low.. New products are expected to launch.. They believe the product will do good and buy the stock..

It's the same for everything really..

September 27th is not going to change anything.. Unless BB10 releases before that..

[Superfly_FR]

my friend @SuperFly and I have had this ongoing conversation and I will start it again, buying scale down a stock that has at least one more bad quarter to report is a dangerous game. If, as we all hope and expect, BB10 is a tremendous hit in early 2013 there will be plenty of time to buy this stock even at a higher price. If you look at Apple - the stock I read here constantly we want RIM to emulate, you didn't have to buy anywhere close to the low once they changed the narrative and more importantly changed their fundamentals. RIM needs to do both before they are a buy again and if the do and if you buy at 8 or 9 instead of 5 or 7, that difference won't be important to where they are headed.

And as for Prem you shouldn't just assume because he doubled down you should too. Even Warren Buffet takes losses from time to time. There is a post just above me that Icahn admitted to taking a loss on RIM. Smart people don't hit 1.000 and they don't have to. Prem has written his losses to the market and he's still standing.

This sounds wise to me.

[Superfly_FR]

For the amount of money you'd blow to go out to eat a few times in say a month, you could pick up a small handfull of RIM shares. You can't approach it with the attitude of "i'm going to make money" or "i'm going to lose money."

Treat it as blow money. At that point, you are not losing a thing, and also you are giving people who don't belong on the CrackBerry forums anyway just another angle with which to bash on both RIM and it's loyal supporters. And what the h*ll? If you look at the whole thing as some recreational spending and RIM did so happen to climb up the scales again, you made some extra bucks.

Yes.sir.

It's just that the stock is at a low.. New products are expected to launch.. They believe the product will do good and buy the stock..

Yes.
I'm an entrepreneur, not an investor.
Say RIM just came out from nowhere, with no history and current bad perception.
We are day z�ro : would you buy a bunch of $6 shares on behalf of what is announced for Q1 ? I will.
Now, just imagine the same "day zero" situation with only 10%* of current customers that have already pre-ordered RIM's new device for Q1 release ...
Won't this paint it ... blue ?

* say 8 Million - my purely hypothetic loyal customers BB10 Q1 adoption rate

[varunsain]

Nneed to have intuition, trust, and faith. Small money $100 can do wonders..

[sam_b77]

Nneed to have intuition, trust, and faith. Small money $100 can do wonders..

That's what the gamblers at Vegas say.
I like RIM but investing in a company simply because you like it is unwise.
RIM is at am all time low but that doesn't mean the bottom has been found out. I would wait for the Quarterly results and then buy. If they are good then you will have a reason to be optimistic and will also have time as the stock stock price wouldn't jump overnight. If it's bad then there will be new lows and you can still get a better deal than what you are getting right now.
Investing in a stock is different than liking a company.

[varunsain]

You are being over-calculative on stocks that are hitting lows since a while. There's not much to think here.. You like the company you buy the shares.. You don't think the company is making smart decisions.. Move on..

RIMM is not a part of a regular trading portfolio.. It's a matter of risk assessment. You need to consider your faith and trust in the company first.

September might just bring out some internal news from RIM on their future plans and stock prices might just rise.. it's a two way street.

Besides.. this thread is about supporting RIM by buying their shares.. Thinking a bit deeper than that defeats the purpose..

[Superfly_FR]

Investing in a stock is different than liking a company.

Yep, I wish my title was somehow different, more likely : "I support RIM so and I buy shares"

[OMGitworks]

Carl Icahn bought in the 20s, and bailed at 15. He followed up by saying, he made a mistake. Prems purchase is in the billions. He must see something there. His influence can be dangerous for those who follow, if he's bluffing.

What he sees, for the 3rd time I might add, that unless he buys more at an even lower price, he has no chance of ever getting back to even. This argument has proved to be wrong at least 2 x on his prior large purchases but perhaps the 3rd time is a charm?? The disturbing part for me is that it appears that unless he is in the market buying, RIMM has almost no support.

His average cost is somewhere between $16-20 depending on when he actual bought in the quarter he has filed reports for. That puts his losses, with the stock at $6.50, roughly somewhere between $500-700M.

[hootyhoo]

Wow. I always wondered who could possibly be buying a losing stock like this.

Barnum was a genius.