[OMGitworks]

My timeline looks a bit shorter. Like in the next 3 years. RIM has sharp rise as Apple stalls because new CEO tries to play SJ and fails, and has to address fallout from Foxconn.

This rally is already starting to stall. May end up looking like a very small dead cat bounce a few months from now. I am very close to selling the rest of my June options and calling quits on RIMM and taking my 40% profit (if it wasn't off another 30 cents this am I would for sure). No way this stock rises 10 times it current value in 3 years. That is a bet I would take all day. Even the January 2014 options don't trade above $35 strike price.....

[Economist101]

My timeline looks a bit shorter. Like in the next 3 years. RIM has sharp rise as Apple stalls because new CEO tries to play SJ and fails, and has to address fallout from Foxconn.

I think it's far more likely that Thorsten Heins tries to play Mike L. and succeeds, and we already know how that turned out. Personally, if I had to bet, I'd bet on the guy that helped his company reach a high point (Cook) over someone who helped ride his into its Nadir (Heins). But to each their own.

[sam_b77]

I think it's far more likely that Thorsten Heins tries to play Mike L. and succeeds, and we already know how that turned out. Personally, if I had to bet, I'd bet on the guy that helped his company reach a high point (Cook) over someone who helped ride his into its Nadir (Heins). But to each their own.

Success and failure are both temporary. That which is a success today might fail tomorrow and vice versa.

If you have been an entrepreneur you would get this. There would be now way to explain this to an economists or analysts.

[kevinnugent]

People do also realize that owning shares doesn't actually support the company, right? RIM isn't selling the shares. They were released and sold many years ago, probably.

[palmless]

Success and failure are both temporary. That which is a success today might fail tomorrow and vice versa.

If you have been an entrepreneur you would get this. There would be now way to explain this to an economists or analysts.

Folks do get VERY confused, and think "Well, anything successful must be just about to fail!" and "Anything failing must inevitably be about to succeed!".

Not necessarily true. Both success and failure can be maintained for long periods of time, and neither success nor failure predicts their immediate reversal.

Look at RIMM in 2005/2006, or even early 2007. They would have been judged a success, and anyone predicting they were about to embark on an epic five year run of sustained, repeated, unbroken failure would not have been taken seriously. Yet, though they have become a verb ("Gotta stay humble, don't let the hubris evolve to full-bore delusion, don't want to RIMM this company"), their failure streak doesn't predict a success in the near future.

[sam_b77]

Folks do get VERY confused, and think "Well, anything successful must be just about to fail!" and "Anything failing must inevitably be about to succeed!".

Not necessarily true. Both success and failure can be maintained for long periods of time, and neither success nor failure predicts their immediate reversal.

Look at RIMM in 2005/2006, or even early 2007. They would have been judged a success, and anyone predicting they were about to embark on an epic five year run of sustained, repeated, unbroken failure would not have been taken seriously. Yet, though they have become a verb ("Gotta stay on our toes, don't want to RIMM this company"), their failure streak doesn't predict a success in the near future.

Of course its not necessarily true. Obviously stock market investment cannot be done on simple faith on the Entrepreneur's ability to bounce back or just assuming that since its a been bad couple of years the good year are around the corner.

I was just replying to Economist. I would not suggest buying RIMM based on a thumb rule of success and failure.

[anon(757282)]

On the contrary, RIM has substantial upside with the new PlayBook that looks to include the system updates, apps and connectivity changes that make it top tier. And the BB10 phones will have the next gen OS that builds on and uses the QNX ecosystem of apps, with the reliable BB productivity and security backbone. This bodes very well for future performance despite what the trolls in the crooked media and apple fanboys who lurk on this site may say. Changes are happening at RIM. And quoting old news about old sales performance and old decisions by previous CEOs will not affect that change and will not affect the future growth.

[dagerlach]

The stocks up's and down's the past few weeks have been interesting. I've done well getting in and out of RIMM. Unfortunately, it just takes to much of my time to manage a volatile stock with buy and sell stop orders. I feel like a day trader. Hopefully, we will see a nice trend that gets the stock moving up consistently.

RIM has a solid future, but turning around the stock price is going to take some work.

[Economist101]

Success and failure are both temporary. That which is a success today might fail tomorrow and vice versa.

EVERYTHING in life is temporary even life itself. I don't claim that anything is absolute, just like there's no guarantee the sun rises tomorrow here in the U.S. but if I'm betting (as I indicated in the comment), I'd have to bet on Cook over a guy that had a courtside seat for the tech equivalent of the '93 Wimbledon women's final, where Jana Novotna gave away a huge lead to Steffi Graf in the final set.

If you have been an entrepreneur you would get this. There would be now way to explain this to an economists or analysts.

Let's not kid ourselves; the principle you offered is neither difficult to articulate nor understand. I'm sure economists and analysts could get it just fine. The real question is whether Joe Blow forum commenter could get it.

[Thunderbuck]

People do also realize that owning shares doesn't actually support the company, right? RIM isn't selling the shares. They were released and sold many years ago, probably.

It absolutely supports the company. Stock is the ultimate supply/demand proposition; the more demand, the higher the price. If I buy stock, I'm supporting the demand, and helping the company maintain its market cap.

Further, if I believe the value of that stock is going to increase, I'm going to hold it. Otherwise, I'm better off to bail. When I do that, I decrease that demand ever so slightly, and that serves to REDUCE market cap overall.

Why would anyone invest in a company when they didn't expect that investment to increase in value?

[OMGitworks]

The stocks up's and down's the past few weeks have been interesting. I've done well getting in and out of RIMM. Unfortunately, it just takes to much of my time to manage a volatile stock with buy and sell stop orders. I feel like a day trader. Hopefully, we will see a nice trend that gets the stock moving up consistently.

RIM has a solid future, but turning around the stock price is going to take some work.

I got out of the rest of my options position on Friday. I think Prem is done propping up the stock and all the "good" news it out for now. Made 40% on the first half and about 20% on what I sold on Friday. I don't trustthe OS 2 release and think people like Brianflys (respectfully) are kidding themselves about it reaching 50 nevermind 150 anytime soon.

[palmless]

Why would anyone invest in a company when they didn't expect that investment to increase in value?

Thread title explains.

[Thunderbuck]

Thread title explains.

With all due respect, that's kinda insulting.

Investment, ultimately, is an expression of faith that a company will be worth more than it is now. Some analysts have suggested that RIM is already worth more than its current market cap.

I bought because I have a reasonable expectation that they'll build value. And aside from outlier weirdness like looking for tax losses, I'm pretty sure anyone else who buys RIM shares right now is pretty much in the same boat.

Nobody's buying stock in RIM in some symbolic effort to cheer for the company.

[Rickroller]

With all due respect, that's kinda insulting.
Nobody's buying stock in RIM in some symbolic effort to cheer for the company

Actually..that's exactly what the OP was doing. He even made a poll, to see who else was going to be "supportive" of RIM (aka needing cheering up).

I'm not doing this in a speculative vision, just a support action.

[Thunderbuck]

Actually..that's exactly what the OP was doing. He even made a poll, to see who else was going to be "supportive" of RIM (aka needing cheering up).

Okay, fair enough. And I'll grant that such a gesture doesn't do much on its own.

I might suggest that even on that basis, it's an expression of faith in the company with the implication that it will build value.

[Rickroller]

Okay, fair enough. And I'll grant that such a gesture doesn't do much on its own.

I might suggest that even on that basis, it's an expression of faith in the company with the implication that it will build value.

Yea..the OP even said he "may" be in for a juicy surprise in 5 years..so obviously there is some hope for a nice turn around.

The whole basis for this thread was (i think) to get the CB nation together, and that if everyone even bought 5 shares of RIM, it would not only show their support, but also buoy the stock when it was at it's lowest. It was a nice gesture for sure, but like you said, doesn't do much on it's own.

[anon(757282)]

I think the OP has the view that RIM will be successful. Contrarian to the bashing and crooked media and trolls on this site, but a strongly held belief. I have skin in the game and see the signs of turnaround and growth.

If you think RIM will fail then you are wrong, and are on the wrong site. Crackberry is for RIM supporters. I have skin in the game for long term growth. Optimistic? Sure, based on what I see and hear from RIM and the stumbles starting to pile up at apple.

RIM is rolling and trolls will not stop it.

[themogulmike]

I've been watching RIMM closely as well and it's definitely interesting enough to buy some shares soon. IMO RIMM can't stay at 12-16 forever, especially since this is where they are with virtually no marketing going on right now at all.

Imagine where they could be if the PlayBook catches on with 2.0, and if they can successfully market the Bold/BB10 in the future, the stock is bound to see some gains. It comes down to if you are willing to gamble for some potentially solid gains in the near future. All I have to say is why not at $16 per share right now?

[dynot]

Yea..the OP even said he "may" be in for a juicy surprise in 5 years..so obviously there is some hope for a nice turn around.

The whole basis for this thread was (i think) to get the CB nation together, and that if everyone even bought 5 shares of RIM, it would not only show their support, but also buoy the stock when it was at it's lowest. It was a nice gesture for sure, but like you said, doesn't do much on it's own.

I know I'm gonna get flamed big time for this but I think CB jumped the shark when this thread received 10,000 views and 100 likes.

The notion that buying even a thousand shares will make a difference is insane what with all the institutional investors having significantly more impact on stock prices.

Even more ludricous is sinking your hard earned money into a consumer goods company to "show your support". Do you think RIM (or APPL, or Google) will make your mortgage payment when you are down and out in your luck to show their support for a valued customer? By this logic, I should by stock in BMW, Samsung (TV), & Toshiba (laptop) because I own products made by all these companies.

Want to support RIM? Buy their products. Don't be an irresposible, emotional investor.

[anon(757282)]

I've been watching RIMM closely as well and it's definitely interesting enough to buy some shares soon. IMO RIMM can't stay at 12-16 forever, especially since this is where they are with virtually no marketing going on right now at all.

Imagine where they could be if the PlayBook catches on with 2.0, and if they can successfully market the Bold/BB10 in the future, the stock is bound to see some gains. It comes down to if you are willing to gamble for some potentially solid gains in the near future. All I have to say is why not at $16 per share right now?

Good questions. RIM is profitable, debt free, reenergized, and growing numbers of users. Products and updates are being released. They have new top management. Trolls and biased media can only parrot old news for so long. Personal decision what to do. Good luck with your decision!

[Economist101]

Recordsetting sales and profits, but no upsetting the golden goose at Foxconn.

Unfortunately I can't comment on how RIM might do with record setting sales and profits, since it's yet to happen. But if and when it does, I will update.

So that great APL stock price comes at a heavy human toll. I'll take RIM's slow growth.

Two things. One, it's "AAPL", not "APL" (I assumed it was a typo the first time you did it, but now that you've done it twice. . .). Two, RIM's subscriber base is growing, but its profits are falling, and if the "slow growth" is so slow that the company makes a smaller profit each quarter, you get a cratering stock price, a management change and lots of negative coverage.

[anon(757282)]

Unfortunately I can't comment on how RIM might do with record setting sales and profits, since it's yet to happen. But if and when it does, I will update.



Two things. One, it's "AAPL", not "APL" (I assumed it was a typo the first time you did it, but now that you've done it twice. . .). Two, RIM's subscriber base is growing, but its profits are falling, and if the "slow growth" is so slow that the company makes a smaller profit each quarter, you get a cratering stock price, a management change and lots of negative coverage.

RIM seems to be able to do the right thing on much lower sales, and still strong on philanthropy. A model for Apple to aspire to? Could they stand for the lower margins resulting from slightly better conditions for their suppliers?

Thanks for letting me know about the stock symbol, no slight intended there.

[OMGitworks]

Looks like whatever momentum RIMM may have had is done. Glad I cashed out with a nice profit. The RIMM chart looks terrible again and Prem might be all done with buying in to prop up the price. Down over $1.00 in 4 sessions while the overall market is up. As always YMMV but I'd be very wary about buying in now unless you don't mind waiting at least 6 months or year or more to see any real return. There are many other better bets out there as far as I am concerned. Good luck to all.

[app_Developer]

Looks like whatever momentum RIMM may have had is done. Glad I cashed out with a nice profit. The RIMM chart looks terrible again and Prem might be all done with buying in to prop up the price. Down over $1.00 in 4 sessions while the overall market is up. As always YMMV but I'd be very wary about buying in now unless you don't mind waiting at least 6 months or year or more to see any real return. There are many other better bets out there as far as I am concerned. Good luck to all.

I'm thinking it might bounce around between 16 and 17 for a while. At <16, someone will dig out a buyout rumor again.

So I'm in today, but with a stop at 15.25. And fun money only.

I think there will be a big step down again after the earnings report next month, so I'm definitely out before that. We'll see what it looks like in April.

[OMGitworks]

I'm thinking it might bounce around between 16 and 17 for a while. At <16, someone will dig out a buyout rumor again.

So I'm in today, but with a stop at 15.25. And fun money only.

I think there will be a big step down again after the earnings report next month, so I'm definitely out before that. We'll see what it looks like in April.

Yep its not a bad stock to trade but a pretty poor bet as an investment. Made money twice with short term options on price swings but 15 or 16 may be the top for a while. Takeover rumors are its only real hope and for me thats not a great investment strategy.