[jelp2]

Actually the only "bad news" that would turn away investors is "your investment lost money. Just an FYI.

So where's the bad news about a company with no debt, shipped 14.3 million units the last quarter, grew 35% in 52 weeks? You don't read any of that in theses online "reports". You being the savvy investor your are may know that, but to someone who's looking to begin investing may not. FYI



Hmmm. . . and why would reporting on RIM protect their investments? The stock has only fallen to $15 from $70.

Because they are invested in Apple and want to keep the stock price up by swaying people towards it via their media power. And stock price is driven by the media, either way. If people begin to bad mouth Apple, even though the product doesn't change, the stock price will. RIM has work to do, there's no argument there. Restructuring doesn't happen overnight.

[palmless]

Because they are invested in Apple and want to keep the stock price up by swaying people towards it via their media power. And stock price is driven by the media, either way. If people begin to bad mouth Apple, even though the product doesn't change, the stock price will. RIM has work to do, there's no argument there. Restructuring doesn't happen overnight.

Seriously? You credit >this< to a media conspiracy, not market share, product, earnings, cash, etc. Not to a disruptive retail strategy, not for changing the way the cell phone, music, video, retail, PC, and portable electronics industries work?

Seriously? A complicit media? I'd wager that Apple probably has more paid detractors than any tech company. How many posts here on this forum could be summarized as "If not for BB, the best solution is probably the iPhone but I hate Apple". Anti-Apple is a religion, you think folks could impact the stock price by STARTING to bad-mouth Apple? It's been a non-stop screech for decades. I haven't used a mouse for five years, and still meet folks who think you can't right click on a Mac!!!

[Economist101]

Because they are invested in Apple and want to keep the stock price up by swaying people towards it via their media power. And stock price is driven by the media, either way. If people begin to bad mouth Apple, even though the product doesn't change, the stock price will. RIM has work to do, there's no argument there. Restructuring doesn't happen overnight.

Is that conspiracy theory sponsored by "tinfoilonmyhead.com"? If not, it should be. At any rate, it's good to know that the Motley Fool can prop up stock prices. Maybe RIM should hire them?

I have news for you: people bad mouth Apple every day, like they bad mouth every other company. They just don't bad mouth their results (generally), since their results have been beyond solid for years. RIM, on the other hand, can't rely on their results, since they haven't been good for a while. If they're results improve, their coverage will, and their stock price will also. It's really not complicated.

[Thunderbuck]

Is that conspiracy theory sponsored by "tinfoilonmyhead.com"? If not, it should be. At any rate, it's good to know that the Motley Fool can prop up stock prices. Maybe RIM should hire them?

I have news for you: people bad mouth Apple every day, like they bad mouth every other company. They just don't bad mouth their results (generally), since their results have been beyond solid for years. RIM, on the other hand, can't rely on their results, since they haven't been good for a while. If they're results improve, their coverage will, and their stock price will also. It's really not complicated.

As much as I believe RIM is currently undervalued, I agree that it's silly to attribute it to some kind of media conspiracy.

I do think that much of the current valuation is built on bad news. RIM put itself in the way of that truck several times last year, agreed. I actually think the board has quietly asserted more control than they've shown publicly, though, and that's staunched the flow of bad news.

[jelp2]

Seriously? You credit >this< to a media conspiracy, not market share, product, earnings, cash, etc. Not to a disruptive retail strategy, not for changing the way the cell phone, music, video, retail, PC, and portable electronics industries work?

Seriously? A complicit media? I'd wager that Apple probably has more paid detractors than any tech company. How many posts here on this forum could be summarized as "If not for BB, the best solution is probably the iPhone but I hate Apple". Anti-Apple is a religion, you think folks could impact the stock price by STARTING to bad-mouth Apple? It's been a non-stop screech for decades. I haven't used a mouse for five years, and still meet folks who think you can't right click on a Mac!!!

Seriously, nobody is saying anything about a conspiracy. What are you talking about?!? The only thing mentioned is that certain articles or companies or people are biased towards certain devices, products etc. No matter what sector you want to discuss.
Of course stock price is driven by media and word of mouth, you'd be absolutely foolish to believe otherwise. Im not saying its the the only cause of a price drop or increase, but it definitely matters.
Remember back in 2008 when Apples stock dropped 50% in a month because of rumors circulating of Steve Job's cancer coming out of remission. It wasnt even officially announced, but investors saw the end of Apple in sight. The sky's always falling for some people.

[jelp2]

Is that conspiracy theory sponsored by "tinfoilonmyhead.com"? If not, it should be. At any rate, it's good to know that the Motley Fool can prop up stock prices. Maybe RIM should hire them?

I have news for you: people bad mouth Apple every day, like they bad mouth every other company. They just don't bad mouth their results (generally), since their results have been beyond solid for years. RIM, on the other hand, can't rely on their results, since they haven't been good for a while. If they're results improve, their coverage will, and their stock price will also. It's really not complicated.

Im not saying its complicated, I agree with what youre saying. What I said is you cant rely solely on the media. If they only report on the negative without mentioning the positive and then want to throw in their own opinion, then its not an informative article, its an editorial. When the last few paragraphs of an article are nothing but opinion bashing, it will absolutely affect the stock price.

[palmless]

Remember back in 2008 when Apples stock dropped 50% in a month because of rumors circulating of Steve Job's cancer coming out of remission. It wasnt even officially announced, but investors saw the end of Apple in sight. The sky's always falling for some people.

Nope, I don't recall that month.

I do recall a five month period in 2008 during which AAPL fell 50%. They called it something like "The Financial Crisis" (?) but it have been due to rumors of Jobs' illness rather than Lehman, etc. Funny, it affected RIMM even worse during the same year... rumors of Jobs' illness must have REALLY been exaggerated!

Using Occam's Razor, what is the most likely reason that "the media" doesn't include all of the good news in their RIMM reports?

[Economist101]

Im not saying its complicated, I agree with what youre saying. What I said is you cant rely solely on the media. If they only report on the negative without mentioning the positive and then want to throw in their own opinion, then its not an informative article, its an editorial. When the last few paragraphs of an article are nothing but opinion bashing, it will absolutely affect the stock price.

I never rely "solely" on the media. In fact, I focus on the fundamentals: revenue, profit, units sold, etc., with an emphasis on the trends in that data. When you look at the data and the trends, you understand why RIM's price is depressed. Is it lower than it should be? Probably. But whose responsibility is it to resolve this? The CEOs.

[Thunderbuck]

I never rely "solely" on the media. In fact, I focus on the fundamentals: revenue, profit, units sold, etc., with an emphasis on the trends in that data. When you look at the data and the trends, you understand why RIM's price is depressed. Is it lower than it should be? Probably. But whose responsibility is it to resolve this? The CEOs.

The CEOs, and the board.

I think the board (quietly) stepped in last fall, right around the time the PB OS update was pushed back and the write-down was announced.

What pleases me most about the Playbook update announcement today is that A) RIM is actually meeting a release target and B) in many respects this release exceeds expectations. If the OS update works as promised, it's going to add genuine value to the Playbook ownership experience.

Given past performance, I'll grant that might be a fairly big "if". We'll just have to see. I DO believe that RIM's stock will be significantly higher by the end of February.

[jelp2]

If they get this PB update out on time, its got to boost consumer/investor confidence, except of course for the absolute nay sayers....and they know who they are. If the CEO's didnt learn from this past year then RIM would cease to exist if they stayed in "power". It had to be a learning experience. They know its now or never, and if the PB update is as good as it looks and arrives on time, Im thinking it may be now.

[jelp2]

Nope, I don't recall that month.

I do recall a five month period in 2008 during which AAPL fell 50%. They called it something like "The Financial Crisis" (?) but it have been due to rumors of Jobs' illness rather than Lehman, etc. Funny, it affected RIMM even worse during the same year... rumors of Jobs' illness must have REALLY been exaggerated!

Using Occam's Razor, what is the most likely reason that "the media" doesn't include all of the good news in their RIMM reports?

Im not trying to shift blame or proof or simplify anything.
Heres and excerpt from an article in 2008,

"It makes sense that Jobs' health is an issue for Apple shareholders. But that also means there's an incentive for traders to take advantage of the situation, by spreading rumors, or playing them."

Here's the whole article if you want to read it. Steve Jobs illness rumors return, Apple stock falls - latimes.com

Its not Apple bashing, and honestly I couldnt care less about Apple and what they do. Its not for me. All Im saying from 3000 posts ago is, you CANT rely on the media to make your investment choices.

[anon(757282)]

Never mind that stuff. Stock price has not sunk to $10 and certainly not $6. Stock has gained 23% in the last couple of weeks. Granted, huge distance to get to the stock price of just a year ago. But we are seeing the first steps of the turnaround. and RIM is starting to deliver.

RIM is rolling!!!

[palmless]

Im not trying to shift blame or proof or simplify anything.
Heres and excerpt from an article in 2008,

"It makes sense that Jobs' health is an issue for Apple shareholders. But that also means there's an incentive for traders to take advantage of the situation, by spreading rumors, or playing them."

Here's the whole article if you want to read it. Steve Jobs illness rumors return, Apple stock falls - latimes.com

Its not Apple bashing, and honestly I couldnt care less about Apple and what they do. Its not for me. All Im saying from 3000 posts ago is, you CANT rely on the media to make your investment choices.

From the article, bold italics added:

"The Gizmodo report, though hedged by the blog as unconfirmed, reversed Apple's stock gain on the day (shares had been trading up but then fell before closing at $86.29, down 32 cents)."

$.32/$86.29 = .3%

I was responding to your statement a few posts ago, bold italics added...

Of course stock price is driven by media and word of mouth, you'd be absolutely foolish to believe otherwise. Im not saying its the the only cause of a price drop or increase, but it definitely matters.

Remember back in 2008 when Apples stock dropped 50% in a month because of rumors circulating of Steve Job's cancer coming out of remission. It wasnt even officially announced, but investors saw the end of Apple in sight. The sky's always falling for some people.

I'll apply massive doses of hyperbole filter in the future to avoid misunderstandings.

[Economist101]

The CEOs, and the board.

Yes, the Board is a factor, but I omitted because the CEOs are the Chairmen.

[Thunderbuck]

Yes, the Board is a factor, but I omitted because the CEOs are the Chairmen.

I know, but... The buck's got to stop somewhere, and in this case I think the rest of the board did... something. I don't know what, but suddenly funny things happened like, they took a huge write-down and started setting release dates that had some connection with reality.

Yes, they're co-Chairmen, and, yes, they're co-CEOs, but things were unraveling at an alarming rate. Somebody--or something--reined them in. Successfully, one can only hope.

[jelp2]

From the article, bold italics added:

"The Gizmodo report, though hedged by the blog as unconfirmed, reversed Apple's stock gain on the day (shares had been trading up but then fell before closing at $86.29, down 32 cents)."

$.32/$86.29 = .3%

I was responding to your statement a few posts ago, bold italics added...



I'll apply massive doses of hyperbole filter in the future to avoid misunderstandings.

You're still missing my whole point! I don't care if Apple stock dropped 50%, 70%, 1 month, 5 months, I don't care. What I showed in the article, whether the stock was affected, is that the media and certain investors will spread rumors and add personal editorials in hopes to drive a stock down.
My point = You can not base you investment on magazines articles, blogs, etc.
Your point= ??? Go Apple?
Let me ask you this,, are you short RIM, or were you heavily invested and lost right now and are just pissed off at them?
If neither, then what's your gripe?

[palmless]

You're still missing my whole point! I don't care if Apple stock dropped 50%, 70%, 1 month, 5 months, I don't care. What I showed in the article, whether the stock was affected, is that the media and certain investors will spread rumors and add personal editorials in hopes to drive a stock down.
My point = You can not base you investment on magazines articles, blogs, etc.
Your point= ??? Go Apple?
Let me ask you this,, are you short RIM, or were you heavily invested and lost right now and are just pissed off at them?
If neither, then what's your gripe?

The whole logical leap from "RIM Stock at $15 because of horrid decision making, worse management, and an unbroken string of failed products" to "RIM Stock at $15 because the media says bad things and doesn't report the good things" offends me.

When "AAPL dropped 50% in one month due to Jobs' health rumors" is backed down to "AAPL dropped one third of one percent one day due to Jobs' health rumors", I hope it exposes the logical leap for the wishful thinking it is (at best) or obfuscation (at worst).

Agreed, don't invest based on magazine articles or blogs. But when something is accurately reported, don't ignore the facts that were reported simply because they were in a magazine article or a blog!

[jelp2]

Well there's the issue, I've never said their stock drop was due to solely from media involvement. Of course they've had their problems and need to fix things. But to say that the stock price is not swayed by the media offends me. You should know when a stock is on the rise, investors will talk it up and recommend buying to help keep the price going up, when its on a decline, they will short it and talk it down, even though the company may be showing signs of a turn around.
Its kind of funny yesterday when it looked like RIM may have some good news coming from CES, one of the headlines later in the day was "Can we start shorting RIM again?"
Sure they listed all the charts and graphs from last year, but past performance does not garauntee future performance. So you think they may be trying to sway readers? Its kind of blatant.
Again management fell asleep at the wheel 18-20 months ago and it showed last year. Well if they woke up 4 months ago, we won't see the full effect until later this year. We are possibly seeing signs of that now and it is going to make all the shorts nervous, and they will try to keep the stock down.

I'm hoping RIM does turn around, I'm looking forward to the new devices and PB upgrade. It bothers me when people try to douse the light which is trying to illuminate at the end of the tunnel.

[OMGitworks]

Never mind that stuff. Stock price has not sunk to $10 and certainly not $6. Stock has gained 23% in the last couple of weeks. Granted, huge distance to get to the stock price of just a year ago. But we are seeing the first steps of the turnaround. and RIM is starting to deliver.

RIM is rolling!!!

Don't confuse a dead cat bounce with a turn around. It could happen, but you need to regain 50% of your loss to really say that it is turning around. I think the possible changes on the board and 2.0 and decent CES could see it get to $20, maybe even $25 (US) over the next few months, but until it gets to $35 and back to 50% of what it was worth a year ago, its not a turn around. I am hoping it does, but honestly it was oversold and the news was so bad it would have been shocking if it didn't bounce a little.

[jamesbondOO7]

Je viens d'en acheter 38 sur Boursorama.

[Thunderbuck]

Don't confuse a dead cat bounce with a turn around. It could happen, but you need to regain 50% of your loss to really say that it is turning around. I think the possible changes on the board and 2.0 and decent CES could see it get to $20, maybe even $25 (US) over the next few months, but until it gets to $35 and back to 50% of what it was worth a year ago, its not a turn around. I am hoping it does, but honestly it was oversold and the news was so bad it would have been shocking if it didn't bounce a little.

I know what a dead cat bounce looks like. In this case, the bounce happened when RIM hinted at management changes.

The 2.0 launch has to work, and it has to be on time. Jim and Mike have to leave the board, amicably, and, hopefully, we'll see other changes announced. BB10 has to be shown at least periodically to confirm the engineers haven't thrown up their hands in defeat.

I bought at $17, so I still have a little ways to go before I'm back in the black, but I think they really are coming back.

[OMGitworks]

I know what a dead cat bounce looks like. In this case, the bounce happened when RIM hinted at management changes.

The 2.0 launch has to work, and it has to be on time. Jim and Mike have to leave the board, amicably, and, hopefully, we'll see other changes announced. BB10 has to be shown at least periodically to confirm the engineers haven't thrown up their hands in defeat.

I bought at $17, so I still have a little ways to go before I'm back in the black, but I think they really are coming back.

At $17 I would think you would be OK without a lot of down side risk and a good amount of potential upside. If what you posted comes true, I think we could see 20 or 25 by mid summer. Unfortunately those who go tin at $40-70 will have a much longer wait and may never see even again. Good luck with your RIMM!

[anon(757282)]

At $17 I would think you would be OK without a lot of down side risk and a good amount of potential upside. If what you posted comes true, I think we could see 20 or 25 by mid summer. Unfortunately those who go tin at $40-70 will have a much longer wait and may never see even again. Good luck with your RIMM!

Looking like RIMM might hit $18 today on more rumors of deal brewing the Samsung to buy...something. Regardless of the reasons, RIMM continues to trend upward and we are making money on the trip. Nice! When OS2 is released in Feb, there should be another spike as RIMM shows they can deliver. RIMM is rolling!

[Thunderbuck]

Looking like RIMM might hit $18 today on more rumors of deal brewing the Samsung to buy...something. Regardless of the reasons, RIMM continues to trend upward and we are making money on the trip. Nice! When OS2 is released in Feb, there should be another spike as RIMM shows they can deliver. RIMM is rolling!

Yes, I'm back to Black again, at least for the moment

I'm tempted to sell today (though I likely won't). I think RIM would be nuts to take a buyout right now unless there's something ugly we aren't yet aware of.

Again, while there might be a dip tomorrow, a management shuffle by month end will bring better prospects. Good news (or at least no more bad news) in the next couple of quarters would bring share prices up as well.

So, yes, I'm still long.

[OMGitworks]

Yes, I'm back to Black again, at least for the moment

I'm tempted to sell today (though I likely won't). I think RIM would be nuts to take a buyout right now unless there's something ugly we aren't yet aware of.

Again, while there might be a dip tomorrow, a management shuffle by month end will bring better prospects. Good news (or at least no more bad news) in the next couple of quarters would bring share prices up as well.

So, yes, I'm still long.

Put a stop in at where you bought. If the Samsung rumor is shot down, this rally could fade quickly.