[blackjack93117]

Who cares - bought 50 more shares yesterday at $13.10
Bettin the bank. I'm a gambler.

[sam_b77]

Anybody cares to explain / speculate why RIM didn't not buy back any share in the last couple of quarters when its stocks took a deep dive?

Simple. The management has to run the company. The board has a dual role. To enhance shareholder value and to run the company well which in itself is a way to enhace value.

By buying back shares the company will lose liquid capital (even while gaining share capital), and its liquidity that keeps a company running. The funds can be better allocated towards R&D, marketing etc.

A board is not interested in share price after the IPO. After that only speculators want a price to go up to realise profits on their trades.

By buying shares, the board would essentially be using shareholder capital to buy back the shares and not putting enough resources in buidling the company, which in theory should matter most to investors and not the daily price of the stock.
Also arithmatic plays a role in this as well. Even at today's prices it would take a billion dollars to buy back 1/7th of the company (assuming the share price doesn't shoot up when the company announces a share buyback). That adds little to the sharecapital held by the company and erodes RIM's entire liquidity. Where would the company pay its bills from?

Also RIM would have to offer a price higher than market value to buy back the shares. So RIM would be basically buying something at a higher price for which the market values much lower and will be losing their cash. Not a good scenario.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

It's hard to understand WHY at this point, though, because the fundamentals are totally screwy.

Today's (sub-$13) price puts them at a market cap of below $7bln. They're still making revenues of over half-a-billion a quarter, and THEY HAVE A BILLION IN CASH

You could fire all of the management, close them down, and sell off their assets piece by piece and make more back than their current market cap.

So, no, RIM at it's current price isn't bad. It's a fire sale.

Most analyst are worried that the MANAGEMENT is going to STAY and drive the company into the ground. Having a Billion in CASH is great, and means that RIM unlike PALM has time to turn things around. But if your revenues keep declining each quarter eventually you will start posting losses and for a big company it does take long to burn through a Billion.

Sure they would still have assets, but with Canadian Government involvement it could take years to sell off those assets. Uncertainty is what is driving down RIM...
IF PlayBook OS2 is all that was promised, IF RIM can get developer on board for the new OS10, IF they can get the new phones out and they are as good as what other manufactures have out (and are priced accordingly). The Uncertainty will go away and the stock will rise.

[moretreelessbush]

True, share buyback may not be the best use of cash, esp when price is high, but that didn't stop the RIM management buying back shares when the price was much higher, last time when it was above $60. My question is why there has been no share buyback in the last two quarter when the price dropped much more.

[sam_b77]

True, share buyback may not be the best use of cash, esp when price is high, but that didn't stop the RIM management buying back shares when the price was much higher, last time when it was above $60. My question is why there has been no share buyback in the last two quarter when the price dropped much more.

Appearances. Its considered bad form to offer a buy back at a price which is below the Net Asset Value price. This means the investors will be handed a loss. Who would invest again when the image of the company is that they hand losses to the investors and take the company back.

Also offering a buyback when the price is so low could put the company in "play". They just might ending up inviting a hostile takeover.

At what price do you think that RIM should offer a buyback? If they offer at current market price, the share owners will reject their call. So they have to offer a premium on the market price which enables investors to make some money.

If the Board offers up $15 for the shares today, then that would indicate to the market that either the management considers $15 to be a fair price or they are robbing the shareholders. This would also fly in the face of any shareholders meets that RIM may have had where the management might have assured investors of a higher intrinsic value for the share.

Assuming that the intrinsic value is $40 for the share,then offering a price below that would allow arbitrageurs to come in the market. Arbitrage operations claim to iron out inefficiencies in the market and realize the real price. If they feel that the management has offered a low price, they will bid up the price. At what point would the management call off the buyback? At $20, $25 or $30? The minute they call off the buyback below the intrinsic value, the stock market would again assume that the management does not want to pay full price for the shares. This might drive the share price down again, with the arbitrage operations shorting them like he!! to cover their positions.

If in all this the share price breaks the $10 mark on the low side, then the management runs the risk of someone, who fancies RIM at this price, to step in and mount a hostile takeover attempt.

So a buyback at low prices or when a company is weak, might be a suicidal jump off a cliff. It's better to hunker down and address the problems facing the company and to keep their cash safe in their war chest.

[anon(757282)]

Picked up some more shares. Looks like an upswing with key apps being released and RIM on track to deliver OS2. And they are starting to execute their marketing plan and defending themselves against troll sites like BGR.

[1812dave]

Picked up some more shares. Looks like an upswing with key apps being released and RIM on track to deliver OS2. And they are starting to execute their marketing plan and defending themselves against troll sites like BGR.

I must have fallen asleep. PLEASE give me a bit of info on this marvelous marketing plan you say they've "executed". (nice choice of words...)

[anon(757282)]

I must have fallen asleep.

Sorry, but I'm moving forward and kind of busy to backtrack for sleepyheads. After you have a cup of coffee to wake up, google the BB advertisements. Cheers!

[1812dave]

Sorry, but I'm moving forward and kind of busy to backtrack for sleepyheads. After you have a cup of coffee to wake up, google the BB advertisements. Cheers!

In the time it took you to write that response you could have... nevermind. j/k

[anon(757282)]

Stock moving upward. New marketing campaign (ads and aggressive pricing) is having some effect. Analysts are now talking about stock prices increasing.

I don't know from catching knives. I just see RIM as a good long term value, if they are serious about their business. So I bought low. Will be an interesting year.

RIM is rolling.

[the_sleuth]

Good luck, you're a brave soul. Many pundits are predicting 2012 to be a difficult year for US and world economy.

But who really knows, it's like predicting the weather 12 months out. All I know, RIM is too speculative for me.

Stock moving upward. New marketing campaign (ads and aggressive pricing) is having some effect. Analysts are now talking about stock prices increasing.

I don't know from catching knives. I just see RIM as a good long term value, if they are serious about their business. So I bought low. Will be an interesting year.

RIM is rolling.

[OMGitworks]

Stock moving upward. New marketing campaign (ads and aggressive pricing) is having some effect. Analysts are now talking about stock prices increasing.

I don't know from catching knives. I just see RIM as a good long term value, if they are serious about their business. So I bought low. Will be an interesting year.

RIM is rolling.

Marketing campaign for whatever it is will not effect the stock price. Take over talk and the 75% decline it had last year make it seem, to some, like a good speculative bet. I would NOT call it an investment, it is a bet and a risky one at that. Hopefully you bought low, but lots of people thought that when they bought "low" at 40 and 30 and 25 and 20 and ......... Good luck, I do hope it does well but I'd rather take my 50/50 chances at the roulette wheel, the risk reward proposition is probably better.

[dagerlach]

A couple weeks ago I picked up a few hundred shares of RIMM. My conclusion was that the shares were at rock bottom and should begin to move back up at least to around $30 a share. As I researched the company, It became apparent that some organized plan was being played with the stock. It also looks like some of the take-over attempts have made the news due to their failures. Hopefully, these games are now over and the stock will return to a more respective price that is representative of the company. Never-the-less, I still have a stop loss in place just in case

Now RIM, GO MAKE ME SOME MONEY!! I have invest in you!

[anon(757282)]

Stock up almost 10% in early trading today on news of upcoming Board shakeup. It's not the whole solution but certainly a step in the right direction, and the market seems to agree.

Interesting start to 2012. Cheers!

[anon(55900)]

They say that for the ignorant folk, a good way to get into buying stock is to look at what you own, what you like, what your willing to support because you feel it has usefulness to you. Then study the company, look at its debt to equity ratio, etc...

If you own RIM products and believe they have a future then I say buy some of its stock, do not put all your money in one basket always holds true.

I have never owned stock in any company, I have had 401/IRA accounts and have lost my . The group called Motley Fool has a plethoria of knowledge regarding investing directly in the stock market and would be a good place to start your training.

Michaelaw

[sosumi11]

If you own RIM products and believe they have a future then I say buy some of its stock, do not put all your money in one basket always holds true.

What good is an investment if you expect another investment to protect your first investment?

The "don't put all your eggs in one basket" theory is only for those that don't do proper research and are afraid. One basket is a lot easier to watch than several.

Plus if you don't have faith in your original investment, what makes you think your second choice is any better?

[anon(55900)]

What good is an investment if you expect another investment to protect your first investment?

The "don't put all your eggs in one basket" theory is only for those that don't do proper research and are afraid. One basket is a lot easier to watch than several.

Plus if you don't have faith in your original investment, what makes you think your second choice is any better?

Apparently your still in high school and have zero knowledge?

Michaelaw

[sosumi11]

Apparently your still in high school and have zero knowledge?

Maybe. But I made millions by doing research and investing in only one stock.

[jelp2]

They say that for the ignorant folk, a good way to get into buying stock is to look at what you own, what you like, what your willing to support because you feel it has usefulness to you. Then study the company, look at its debt to equity ratio, etc...

If you own RIM products and believe they have a future then I say buy some of its stock, do not put all your money in one basket always holds true.

I have never owned stock in any company, I have had 401/IRA accounts and have lost my . The group called Motley Fool has a plethoria of knowledge regarding investing directly in the stock market and would be a good place to start your training.

Michaelaw

The problem with Motley Fool as well as others, is the bias factor. They are long Apple and will defend them to no end, theyre not going to turn away prospective investors by reporting any bad news. They cant stand RIM and report daily on it, not to help you or me, but to protect their investments. I completely agree with you that if you own a companies product and believe in it, to invest. Obviously do research, make your own decision on it. And never put all your eggs in one basket.

[palmless]

The problem with Motley Fool as well as others, is the bias factor. They are long Apple and will defend them to no end, theyre not going to turn away prospective investors by reporting any bad news. They cant stand RIM and report daily on it, not to help you or me, but to protect their investments. I completely agree with you that if you own a companies product and believe in it, to invest. Obviously do research, make your own decision on it. And never put all your eggs in one basket.

Wonder what causes Motley Fool to stay long AAPL and short RIMM? Think maybe they look at the quarterly reports, etc., or just conspire and scheme?

The quarterly reports just feed the bias, SEC might be in on it...

[Economist101]

The problem with Motley Fool as well as others, is the bias factor. They are long Apple and will defend them to no end, theyre not going to turn away prospective investors by reporting any bad news.

Actually the only "bad news" that would turn away investors is "your investment lost money. Just an FYI.

They cant stand RIM and report daily on it, not to help you or me, but to protect their investments.

Hmmm. . . and why would reporting on RIM protect their investments? The stock has only fallen to $15 from $70.

[cgull]

Wonder what causes Motley Fool to stay long AAPL and short RIMM? Think maybe they look at the quarterly reports, etc., or just conspire and scheme?

The quarterly reports just feed the bias, SEC might be in on it...

No one can defend RIM's missteps but anyone who believes there is no agenda behind these analyst who openly state their positions in AAPL and MSFT is pretty much chugging the kool aid. The bashing from those who would benefit from RIMs demise is vastly disproportionate to reality. The Wall Street Mafia has made millions shorting RIM.

Excerpt from Counterfeiting Stock - Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation:

Media assault � The shorts, in order to realize their profit, must ultimately put the victim into bankruptcy or obtain shares at a price much cheaper than what they shorted at. These shares come from the investing public who panics and sells into the manipulation. Panic is induced with assistance from the financial media.
The shorts have �friendly� reporters with the Dow Jones News Agency, the Wall Street Journal, Barrons, the New York Times, Gannett Publications (USA Today and the Arizona Republic), CNBC and others. The common thread: A number of the �friendly� reporters worked for The Street.com, an Internet advisory service that short hedge�fund managers David Rocker and Jim Cramer owned. This alumni association supported the short attack by producing slanted, libelous, innuendo laden stories that disparaged the company, as it was being crashed.
One of the more outrageous stories was a front�page story in USA Today during a short crash of TASER's stock price in June 2005. The story was almost a full page and the reporter concluded that TASER's electrical jolt was the same as an electric chair � proof positive that TASERs did indeed kill innocent people. To reach that conclusion the reporter over estimated the TASER's amperage by a factor of one million times. This �mistake� was made despite a detailed technical briefing by TASER to seven USA Today editors two weeks prior to the story. The explanation �Due to a mathematical error� appeared three days later � after the damage was done to the stock price.
Jim Cramer, in a video�taped interview with The Street.com, best described the media function:
�When (shorting) ... The hedge fund mode is to not do anything remotely truthful, because the truth is so against your view, (so the hedge funds) create a new 'truth' that is development of the fiction... you hit the brokerage houses with a series of orders (a short down ladder that pushes the price down), then we go to the press. You have a vicious cycle down � it's a pretty good game.�
This interview, which is more like a confession, was never supposed to get on the air; however, it somehow ended up on YouTube. Cramer and The Street.com have made repeated efforts, with some success, to get it taken off of YouTube.

Cramer on manipulation of RIM... ... starting @ 3:00

Keep telling yourself strings aren't being pulled.

[anon(757282)]

No one can defend RIM's missteps but anyone who believes there is no agenda behind these analyst who openly state their positions in AAPL and MSFT is pretty much chugging the kool aid. The bashing from those who would benefit from RIMs demise is vastly disproportionate to reality. The Wall Street Mafia has made millions shorting RIM.

Excerpt from Counterfeiting Stock - Explaining illegal naked shorting and stock manipulation:



Cramer on manipulation of RIM... ... starting @ 3:00

Keep telling yourself strings aren't being pulled.

Good analysis. Makes perfect sense based on what is reported and not reported in the media. No one thought Enron could possibly be manipulating earnings reports either. Hide in plain sight. Will be interesting to see how these short friendlies put negative spin on all of the RIM announcements at CES.

[mas87fr]

I have RIM shares too. I wouldn't say that I�m happy right now with rate but it doesn�t make my cry or something. When you own shares, it�s an gamble, sometimes you will win and sometimes you will loose but you have to focus and don�t play with emotions like ahhh OMG the rate is going down I have to sell LAMO


BTW. you have to put an differnt view on your minds. You shouldn�t buy any RIM shares when you just like your BlackBerry device because with that attitude you will loose money. own shares are risky and the main goal is to make mo money and not to say HEY I LOVE MY BLACKBERRY THAT`S WHY I OWN RIM SHARES that�s a dumb game

[Frank2029]

Im not about to go investing in RIMM but i do believe that if you are going to invest it wouldnt be a bad idea to go in at the $12-$15 range which it is right now. I think RIMM will bounce back but not to what they were a couple years ago. I can see them going to about $25 by years end if BBOS10 is successful. Just remember, technology is a gamble. Your best bet is Banks, Railroads and Wheat. (Not sure why i used capital letters on those words but i am going to stick with it :P)