[plasmid_boy]

John Chen is acting as if BB was a private company and he was the owner. Sandbagging, marketing mostly based on YouTube clips and blogs and an ignorant and arrogant attitude towards what it needs to lead a public company.

How did the 140 new partners find Blackberry and how were they compelled to form the partnerships? Not from the YouTube clips and blogs as you mentioned, I would guess.

[anon(9100201)]

How did the 140 new partners find Blackberry and how were they compelled to form the partnerships? Not from the YouTube and blogs as you mentioned, I would guess.

140 partners do not automatically mean more revenue sine the partners first have to sell the products to customers and with BB still bad brand awareness that could be quite an uphill battle for these partners.

So as long as BB is not starting to show at least 30% yoy revenue growth I will stay with my opinion that John Chen and his team are overpaid and overrated lame ducks.

[plasmid_boy]

140 partners do not automatically mean more revenue sine the partners first have to sell the products to customers and with BB still bad brand awareness that could be quite an uphill battle for these partners.

So as long as BB is not starting to show at least 30% yoy revenue growth I will stay with my opinion that John Chen and his team are overpaid and overrated lame ducks.

What are you talking about?
I asked you a very specific question relating to a particular accusation that you made, and you came back with a bunch of unrelated nonsense?

[anon(9100201)]

What are you talking about?
I asked you a very specific question relating to a particular accusation that you made, and you came back with a bunch of unrelated nonsense?

My comments regarding ****ty marketing based on YouTube clips and blogs was related to real customers and real revenues and not partners. They can attract millions of partner with YouTube clips and blog post, without real sales to customers it is useless.

[plasmid_boy]

My comments regarding ****ty marketing based on YouTube clips and blogs was related to real customers and real revenues and not partners. They can attract millions of partner with YouTube clips and blog post, without real sales to customers it is useless.

I am speechless. I should not have tried to converse with you! Have a happy day, cheer up a bit man.

[W Hoa]

I am speechless. I should not have tried to converse with you!

It's a sad tale of unrequited John Chen love that he's caught up in and it doesn't look as it will have a happy ending. Many of us have tried to help, to no avail.

[anon(9100201)]

I am speechless. I should not have tried to converse with you! Have a happy day, cheer up a bit man.

If new partnes would have meant more revenues, BB would be at 400 million $ per quarter and not 200 million $ and sinking.

Since you seem to have a deeper understanding of business than me, please explain me the following:
If the 140 new partners are selling zeor BB products in one quarter because their customers do not want BB products, how much revenue does BB generate from these partners in that specific quarter? I would have guessed excactly $ 0.00, but according to your wise comments you must have another solution to this equation.

[plasmid_boy]

If new partnes would have meant more revenues, BB would be at 400 million $ per quarter and not 200 million $ and sinking.

Since you seem to have a deeper understanding of business than me, please explain me teh following:
If the 140 new partners are selling zeor BB products in one quarter because their customers do not want BB products, how much revenue does BB generate from these partners in that specific quarter? I would have guessed excactly $ 0.00, but according to your wise comments you must have another solution to this equation.

Sorry, not going to waste anymore time.

[EchoTango]

Sorry, not going to waste anymore time.

A wise decision and a lesson others should heed.

[anon(9100201)]

Sorry, not going to waste anymore time.

As expected: no useful answer to specific questions from John Chen fanboys, only brainless praising and hailing of mighty John Chen

[morganplus8]

Sorry, not going to waste anymore time.

Ha! Ha! Do you think anyone thought they could make a difference when they were scheduled to talk to Charles Manson for 2 hours in his cell? You tried to accomplish the impossible on an online thread. Much better things to do my friend! Glad you see this now, welcome to the long list of others who have tried and moved on.

[anon(9100201)]

Ha! Ha! Do you think anyone thought they could make a difference when they were scheduled to talk to Charles Manson for 2 hours in his cell? You tried to accomplish the impossible on an online thread. Much better things to do my friend! Glad you see this now, welcome to the long list of others who have tried and moved on.

So now you are comparing me to a mass murder? Try instead providing some real answers instead of insults.

[FeitaInc]

140 partners do not automatically mean more revenue sine the partners first have to sell the products to customers and with BB still bad brand awareness that could be quite an uphill battle for these partners.

So as long as BB is not starting to show at least 30% yoy revenue growth I will stay with my opinion that John Chen and his team are overpaid and overrated lame ducks.

to come at the problem a slightly different way than plasmid_boy, the way you are framing it above is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of scenario for JC and team. if I understand you correctly, you want the result, but no matter what JC and team does you think it's a bad idea until you see +30% revenue growth. or said in another way, you won't like the process until it has produced +30% revenue growth, although it is what will get BB there. as somebody who has tried to build up a business, and succeeded after a fashion, I can't overstate how little help that type of attitude is for the person trying to do the work.

thanks for finally calling me out as a fan boy, if indirectly.

[Seadog83]

So now you are comparing me to a mass murder? Try instead providing some real answers instead of insults.

No, just that you keep on beating the same drum over and over and over again.

We get it, you think that Chen is overcompensated and isn't doing enough to promote the brand and get sales. And frankly it unfortunately wildly detracts from several other useful posts you makes, particularly about lawsuits.

Good to hear about the things in the pipeline. While some say that BB is nothing more than a loose grouping of disparate companies, the frame work of how all are going to tie into each other is starting to become visible.

To Muhlan's credit, I do agree that the announcement of partners with no meaningful numbers or revs is really just more of the same. Where we differ of course is why we feel is the cause of all he lack of info and year long quiet period. He feels Chen is wasting time and playing golf, I'd like to think big deals are in the works.

BB kind of looks like a star soccer player who in practice can run faster, shoot harder, more accurately, and ball handle better than anyone on the field. However in his first few games, can't score. All the pieces are there, yet results are still wanting. This was sort of the premise of the book Money Ball. Instead of looking at a few short term results which are highly subject to variability, look at the long term indicators to decide the long term progress.

As a complete aside, does anyone know if the Board has access to non-public info? Obviously they're closer to the sources, but they aren't employees per se (who obviously would have access to confidential things) and being elected by shareholders should we be judging their performance based on the same info that they have?

Again to Muhlan's credit, Chen's pay package was such that the board in approving it was acting like the stock price was already half way to his $30 goal, and I was wondering if there might be a confidential reason only the board was aware of that would make them very confident it would be there in short order.

[drobbie]

Blackberry did not get this bad overnight. It will take even longer (if ever) to get back close to days of old. Let us try to take the emotions out of it.

I for one think BlackBerry is a trading stock and not an investment ( my view) so I play it accordingly.

[anon(9100201)]

No, just that you keep on beating the same drum over and over and over again.

We get it, you think that Chen is overcompensated and isn't doing enough to promote the brand and get sales. And frankly it unfortunately wildly detracts from several other useful posts you makes, particularly about lawsuits.

Good to hear about the things in the pipeline. While some say that BB is nothing more than a loose grouping of disparate companies, the frame work of how all are going to tie into each other is starting to become visible.

To Muhlan's credit, I do agree that the announcement of partners with no meaningful numbers or revs is really just more of the same. Where we differ of course is why we feel is the cause of all he lack of info and year long quiet period. He feels Chen is wasting time and playing golf, I'd like to think big deals are in the works.

BB kind of looks like a star soccer player who in practice can run faster, shoot harder, more accurately, and ball handle better than anyone on the field. However in his first few games, can't score. All the pieces are there, yet results are still wanting. This was sort of the premise of the book Money Ball. Instead of looking at a few short term results which are highly subject to variability, look at the long term indicators to decide the long term progress.

As a complete aside, does anyone know if the Board has access to non-public info? Obviously they're closer to the sources, but they aren't employees per se (who obviously would have access to confidential things) and being elected by shareholders should we be judging their performance based on the same info that they have?

Again to Muhlan's credit, Chen's pay package was such that the board in approving it was acting like the stock price was already half way to his $30 goal, and I was wondering if there might be a confidential reason only the board was aware of that would make them very confident it would be there in short order.

Valid points and I really hope that the reason for the silence is the working on big deals in the background. Unfortunately I fear that the silence has no meaning at all and that John Chen just will continue with his business style that totally ignores shareholder value.

I will be happy to be proved wrong at the end of September, but I fear another crash in the share price is coming instead

[anon(9100201)]

to come at the problem a slightly different way than plasmid_boy, the way you are framing it above is a "damned if you do, damned if you don't" type of scenario for JC and team. if I understand you correctly, you want the result, but no matter what JC and team does you think it's a bad idea until you see +30% revenue growth. or said in another way, you won't like the process until it has produced +30% revenue growth, although it is what will get BB there. as somebody who has tried to build up a business, and succeeded after a fashion, I can't overstate how little help that type of attitude is for the person trying to do the work.

thanks for finally calling me out as a fan boy, if indirectly.

The actions of John Chen and his team as well as the BOD has lead to shrinking revenues every quarter over the last five years. Now we are at 200 million $ which by the way is way the bottom of 500 million $ promised but never delivered

[Bacon Munchers]

Chen portrayed the company as rebounding quickly, it was never done, it was stopped dead in most it's activities that would support failure, he could clean shop, take his time, create a slow but exponential growth trajectory while the hw died into a the growing sw business limiting EPS while securing his pay package but at the expense of shareholders. Consider for a minute they had cash, never used much of the it, had unneeded debt from the looks of it, otherwise why hold and pay interest on the cash? Staggered releases way far out for everything, killing interest. It seems Chen was hellbent on killing the hw division, .

Well, for the few years at least, Chen has been a one-legged man in an @ss kicking contest. It seems whatever he says gets bastardized by mere market sentiment for the brand. I am confident to say that I believe secretly these bashers' of the brand actually admire him.
Most here know that I am on the bandwagon with those who think Chens strengths are not in public speaking, however, he is no dummy; that should be obvious to anyone.
I don't think your point about him killing/wanting to kill the HW is correct. I have heard him say that he has always loved the BlackBerry handset; a fan of the design, etc. To me, he clearly wanted to keep the HW div going. How many ERs do we recall of this?

So, all that fodder to get to my point:
Since the world in general doesn't know what we here know regarding all things BlackBerry, they still see the BB-branded handsets selling (with Android OS!), so who really knows that BlackBerry has stopped selling phones; albeit at a license-level. They can still cling to that small revenue stream, while maintaining the name-branded device perception.

[morganplus8]

Fun fact about BlackBerry stock:



W Hoa already knows this but some of you aren't aware that an RSI below 30 or near that mark, has paid off well in the past couple of months for BB. If you had bought the dips each time someone like FaceBlog or FaceDah or FaceHaHa came along and dropped the stock price you could have enjoyed a bounce on that nonsense and made a fast 10% on your money each time. So follow the green highlighted line and buy it everytime for some good gains. You don't have to announce last years technology to make money on a safe bet like BlackBerry. Good luck.

[Bacon Munchers]

... walk into any place with 100-1000 people and conduct one word response test from saying BlackBerry, and what positive replies do you think one gets? Unfortunately, renaming BB shortly before Chen joined was really putting Chen inside a small dirty box.

LOOOL!
Unfortunately, that is perfectly said.

Oh, and this:
"...If possible, going back to RIM would probably do wonders except it would highlight the mistake in the first place."

Nailed it.

[Bacon Munchers]

...BlackBerry is a trading stock and not an investment ( my view) so I play it accordingly.

Looks like both you and I are at least partially responsible for a reason contributing to BlackBerry SP volatility....

[dalinxz]

Well, for the few years at least, Chen has been a one-legged man in an @ss kicking contest. It seems whatever he says gets bastardized by mere market sentiment for the brand. I am confident to say that I believe secretly these bashers' of the brand actually admire him.
Most here know that I am on the bandwagon with those who think Chens strengths are not in public speaking, however, he is no dummy; that should be obvious to anyone.
I don't think your point about him killing/wanting to kill the HW is correct. I have heard him say that he has always loved the BlackBerry handset; a fan of the design, etc. To me, he clearly wanted to keep the HW div going. How many ERs do we recall of this?

So, all that fodder to get to my point:
Since the world in general doesn't know what we here know regarding all things BlackBerry, they still see the BB-branded handsets selling (with Android OS!), so who really knows that BlackBerry has stopped selling phones; albeit at a license-level. They can still cling to that small revenue stream, while maintaining the name-branded device perception.

So when consumers were asking for high specs, slab phones, BlackBerry chose instead, John Chen in particular mentioned that customers don't know what they want and BlackBerry needs to decide what they want. Then staggering releases worldwide months apart, unfinished devices, QC issues, for few devices even showing he barely knew how to use it. One fail, fine, two fails, sure, fifty fails my patience gets tested, fail after fail since he came onboard, time to walk him out - oh wait I forgot can't even do that anymore with the new termination clause, not only does Watsa get paid out so does Chen, his entire package.

BOD has been the biggest problem, they all needed to be changed before Chen even came onboard.

This stock is dead money, any goodwill/interest from the market that could have helped with the rebound is gone. And we have a CEO who all but disappeared, instead he's busy golfing. One last point to consider, since he came onboard to date, BlackBerry never finished the buyback and zero insider buying so that itself shows even management has zero confidence in the company.

All this is now is a penny stock with a slightly higher market cap, chen's complete lack of focus on SP helped destroy hw and perception of the company, why he would have done this you'd ask - there was a ton of cash, he figured if he could stabilize SP an equity package could turn him into a billionaire. People on here praise Chen as if BlackBerry was that dire, I've seen plenty other companies that have turned around in much harsher conditions. BlackBerry was a goldmine, Chen blew up the entrance, started selling lemonade instead.

[Bla1ze]

Main thing posting insults. Wondering where is the mod? Ah forgot, mods are only working for the fanboys.

So you decided to add to it by insulting the mods instead of reporting it? Good plan. Maybe instead of complaining about the lack of moderation, you can take the time to help out by reporting posts that might be out of line in the future.

[dalinxz]

So you decided to add to it by insulting the mods instead of reporting it? Good plan. Maybe instead of complaining about the lack of moderation, you can take the time to help out by reporting posts that might be out of line in the future.

Bla1ze how does the massive decline of the company affect crackberry traffic. How is it now, would you be open to sharing a graph the show traffic over a longer period of time - last 10 years?

[Bla1ze]

Bla1ze how does the massive decline of the company affect crackberry traffic. How is it now, would you be open to sharing a graph the show traffic over a longer period of time - last 10 years?

Well, the easy answer is to say it has been going up and down for years. We shoot up or down based on BlackBerry. When they're up, we're up. When they're down, we're down. 10 years ago things were obviously on the rise and it kept going from there, but once things started to get wishy washy with hardware there was a decline. Priv was a high point, DTEK60 was a high point, DTEK50, not so much of a pop there.

With the new devices out there, things were up for a bit as people were interested in seeing where things were going and KEYone ended up being a high point, as it was a new fresh take on things, Motion caught some attention and kept things high but some of that is now tapering off and we're rolling into KEY2 and KEY2 LE traffic now. Remains to be seen there.

The thing is, while BlackBerry is doing a TON of different things and got their hands into many pies, CrackBerry readers are largely hardware focused and seemingly always will be. You can see it in the comments. If we post 'BlackBerry Limited' stuff, such as Enterprise/QNX, AtHoc, it gets very little interaction. But if we post 'BlackBerry Mobile' stuff, such as a new device or whatever, people get engaged because it's what they want to see and what they care about.

Long story short, I'm not going to break out charts and graphs for the past 10 years, you don't need those to see that traffic isn't what it once was, that's obvious lol. But we're certainly not shutting the doors at any point soon either. I've said it before and I'll say it again, we were one of the first BlackBerry sites to make it big and look around... there's not many left now. We'll be here long after the others have shut down and been forgotten about.