[FeitaInc]

Correct, but allthemore is speed of high importance meaning grapping companies which would be a good fit to broaden the portfolio (e.g. AI) or market share (WindRiver) of QNX, even if you would have to pay a bit more than you would like to as a cheap guy.

But John Chen prefers sitting on pile of cash paying Prem Watsa 18 million $ per year in interest

WindRiver again? Really?

As for AI, the old expression of pick your fights applies to BB too.

[morganplus8]

Hi Morgan,

First, thank you for taking the time to answer questions from those of us who are trying to learn. I feel privileged for sharing some of your knowledge.

Second, whenever you have a minute, would you be so kind as to give us your impressions of ORMP and SENS, if any? I am asking this for a very dear friend of this thread. And, for myself, any thoughts on HALO, lately?

All the best,

Hi Corbu!

I did take some time to get to know the two companies that are new to me.

Let's start with the one that I find most interesting, ORMP, a very tiny company which is well financed now with a recent capital issue closing at $ 6.25/shr. You can buy it today under the recent filing so that's good news, it has entered into a space of wide appeal so the potential is there too. They are trying to provide Type I and II diabetes patients with an alternative to needles. This is a great unmet need and it has applications in other research fields as well. So I like it for many reasons, including some exposure to Phase II studies with their products. You are getting a $ 100 MM, debt free investment that is 2 - 3 years away from a definitive outcome but it does look promising indeed. I would place it on my RADAR (BB-TM) and buy it over time now as a play for 2 - 3 years down the road. When you think of small cap companies you look are our own EYPT, Phase III studies completed and waiting on a FDUFA approval date. This one is a couple of years away from that prospect.

Now we come to SENS - It is working on a similar theme here with regard to Glucose monitoring for Type I and II patients. It is a tech based, monitoring system in a space of broad appeal too and it takes the monitoring process to a whole new level. The company has also refinanced through additional shares and is somewhat much further along then ORMP. I have to say, I'm not as impressed with this one, they are a much larger entity with a long way to go to turn themselves into a going concern. I would say that there are a large number of investors that could be growing tired of the wait ahead of them. In addition, the process itself of monitoring diabetes and glucose in particular is not very appealing to me. For many reasons, I would look for another way to play the broad spectrum of diabetes patients. The key here is the timeline to bring this one to EPS positive. It is years away from meaningful revenues and EPS and the float is getting larger in the interim.

HALO - is a favourite of mine but it is a mid-sized company now with great prospects tied to Trump and the IBB Index. I like everything about this company from management to cash to their pipeline but things could go slowly for the next few months. I would buy it on/at TA levels and sell/write Call Options against it just like we talked about with BlackBerry and the need to make a profit while you wait. There is enough movement in this stock to generate some great income while you wait.

In conclusion, you can see how difficult it is to find a gem in the universe of 10,000 stocks out there. I think ORMP is one of those but it is at the level of development that SPHS was 2 years ago. HALO is much further along but it is also at a M/C of $ 2.5 B bucks so it isn't a startup by a long shot. Going forward I would add ORMP to our list of possible buys and wait for Trump to give us that amazing price for entry.

Hope this helps, if you have any specific questions about any of this please ask as I did some homework on them and I have more to offer.

[Bacon Munchers]

Great, another two overpriced mid range phones from BlackBerry. Will sell like ten year old hotcakes

Thanks for cramping my style, eh?
I was about to say that the Key2 was the nicest phone I have ever seen!

[Corbu]

You are the absolute best, Morgan.

For you to take the time to research those companies for me and a friend is just outstanding.

Truly, you are of invaluable assistance to us all. It bears repeating. And it typifies what the spirit of this thread has always been about.

Will go over it and get back to you if need be.

Cheers,

[Corbu]

Oh man...

Where's the *****'s hat when you need it??!!

Morgan, I made a mistake. I wrote "SENS" and I had meant to say "SESN"!!

I hate to ask you again but... ;-)

The good thing is we now know we should avoid SENS...

Sorry, mate. No obligation on your part, obviously. Just if you feel like it and have some time.

Thanks!

[anon(9100201)]

WindRiver again? Really?

As for AI, the old expression of pick your fights applies to BB too.

You have no problem forum members repeating the idea of an Avaya/ BlackBerry merger, but when I repeat the idea of a QNX/ WindRiver merger you suddenly have a problem. Are you one of John Chen's buddies or are you getting some cash for defending him?

[morganplus8]

Oh man...

Where's the *****'s hat when you need it??!!

Morgan, I made a mistake. I wrote "SENS" and I had meant to say "SESN"!!

I hate to ask you again but... ;-)

The good thing is we now know we should avoid SENS...

Sorry, mate. No obligation on your part, obviously. Just if you feel like it and have some time.

Thanks!

Okay, never mind ................ ha! I'll get back to you soon. It happens!

Heads up !!
I've stopped buying BB today, I'm not buying more EYPT until the volume comes back there, but, I have loaded up the wagon for a big block of ACB.to as it dips below $ 8.00/shr. What a steal there. That's it, I have some research to do now .....................

Later gang.

[FeitaInc]

You have no problem forum members repeating the idea of an Avaya/ BlackBerry merger, but when I repeat the idea of a QNX/ WindRiver merger you suddenly have a problem. Are you one of John Chen's buddies or are you getting some cash for defending him?

Yeah, he is my buddy, and as any friend he will pay me money for defending him. Oh.. Wait. That makes it sound like I'm his lawyer. And that I get money. And that we've met. But I'm sure we'll get along famously if we ever meet.

I think it is a better idea for Intel to buy BB than for BB to buy the company that Intel divested. Or perhaps Cisco.

[FeitaInc]

Oh man...

Morgan, I made a mistake. I wrote "SENS" and I had meant to say "SESN"!!

The good thing is we now know we should avoid SENS...

Thanks Corbu! This one made my day.

[Corbu]

Thanks Corbu! This one made my day.

[anon(9100201)]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ars/ar-AAAfqMQ

So from the day Nadella took over until 12/31/2017 MSFT share price gained 145% and Nadella earned compensation of 140 million $. That is 965,517 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

John Chen on the other hand side earned 88 million $ from the day he took over until his new absurd high pay package was gifted to him by Watsa, while the share price of BlackBerry gained 60%. That is 2,046,512 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

So who is the overpaid CEO in this post?

[dalinxz]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ars/ar-AAAfqMQ

So from the day Nadella took over until 12/31/2017 MSFT share price gained 145% and Nadella earned compensation of 140 million $. That is 965,517 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

John Chen on the other hand side earned 88 million $ from the day he took over until his new absurd high pay package was gifted to him by Watsa, while the share price of BlackBerry gained 60%. That is 2,046,512 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

So who is the overpaid CEO in this post?

The perfect example to really get your blood to boil. Nadella taking compensation for an extremely large company needing to change strategy to grow from what was already an extremely large company (quite a difficult feat).

Chen on the other hand, as you note insane amounts of monies, and I wouldn't even credit him for that runup from $6, which was a ridiculous price anyways where the company was being priced at cash on hand. Chen seems to be using this slide too now, but I think we knew that the uncertainty that led the share price to $6 really had to do with the uncertainty of who might take over the company.

If I had to make an assertion, it would be that Chen should never have been quiet or so degrading when share price was low for so many years, and his compensation package shouldn't have started until $20, in fact it shouldn't have been tied to share price at all but the revenue targets. To have a compensation where share price only needs to sit there for 10 days, Chen could simply let volume day out, a swift pump and dump scheme could get price to above that $30 mark (which is why this stock screams penny stock in the stock itself - and did NYSE move accomplish anything at all? My observation was that it only served to kill volume even more and let price get even more controllable), possibly even on a short squeeze, Chen gets paid, and at that point he's free to do what he wants. Once the fireworks end with that share price, maybe 15 - 20 days, will there be buyers, or will they realize what just happened after they realize the dilutive effects from Chen's additional compensation and obviously Watsa will go to the bank with Chen as well to convert those CD's which causes an additional 11+% in dilution to shareholders. The shareholders whom I repeat still haven't made a dime. We won't call day trading or going back and forth as an option, for most involved this was a buy and hold, that still hasn't gotten higher than where we were 4 quarters ago, and Chen still can't come out to communicate some sort of positive message?

Could you imagine the potential had he promoted the company, gained faith of shareholders, stakeholders, customers, partners, imagine the potential for BB to raise equity and buy up other companies with a substantially higher share price, instead of giving Watsa 60,000,000 (11% dilution to shareholders) shares for a loan of $605MM; before that 120,000,000 (22% dilution to shareholders) shares for $1.2 Bn; money that was never used anyways, sure Chen probably used the interest expense to accumulate tax credits and smooth out and flatten EPS but at what costs. This is why I still fail to understand how there have been no mention of conflicts of interest between this Prem Watsa and John Chen relationship and how they're both on the board with Watsa owning a large number of shares, and the CD. The proxy services also, not one but 3 I believe on that last vote all recommended to vote NO on the proxy.

Far too late for me to be fully coherent and linear in my thinking, but I think you get the point, and others might too.

[FeitaInc]

https://www.msn.com/en-us/money/mark...ars/ar-AAAfqMQ

So from the day Nadella took over until 12/31/2017 MSFT share price gained 145% and Nadella earned compensation of 140 million $. That is 965,517 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

John Chen on the other hand side earned 88 million $ from the day he took over until his new absurd high pay package was gifted to him by Watsa, while the share price of BlackBerry gained 60%. That is 2,046,512 $ compensation for each 1% gain in share price.

So who is the overpaid CEO in this post?

Clearly both.

[anon(9100201)]

Clearly both.

But at least Nadella has delivered big time for shareholders

[FeitaInc]

so dalinxz, a couple of observations:

1 - Do you mean to pattern your speech after Trump?
2 - You can't eat your cake and have it too, i.e. you can't say that the company was priced low due to not knowing who will take over, and then not giving JC any credit / basis for pay for it going up when the market knows it is he who is coming in. then you are basically saying that he is not responsible for and should not receive any payment for any of the future revenue he will generate and which should be the reason for why the stock goes up, which sounds a bit odd to me.
3- So which is it, is steering a profitable company to being more profitable more difficult than saving a company from going under?
4 - do you seriously mean that JC should have spent time talking up the stock price when he came in?
5 - pump and dumps are illegal, so if JC was caught doing that he would be fired, his reputation would take a nose dive and he could make himself liable for the mother of all group action lawsuits from shareholders.
6 - "BB to raise equity and buy up other companies with a substantially higher share price" -> do you mean to say that if the SP was higher they would not reflect the underlaying value, and as such it would be a good way for BB to use shares in any acquisition?
7 - yeah.. I get it that you don't like JC, the moves he has made and you do not like the size of his pay package.

Far too late for me to be fully coherent and linear in my thinking...

on this at least we agree.

[dalinxz]

so dalinxz, a couple of observations:

1 - Do you mean to pattern your speech after Trump?
2 - You can't eat your cake and have it too, i.e. you can't say that the company was price low due to not knowing who will take over, and then not giving JC any credit / basis for pay for it going up when the market knows it is he who is coming in. then you are basically saying that he is not responsible for and should not receive any payment for any of the future revenue he will generate and which should be the reason for why the stock goes up, which sounds a bit odd to me.
3- So which is it, is steering a profitable company to being more profitable more difficult than saving a company from going under?
4 - do you seriously mean that JC should have spent time talking up the stock price when he came in?
5 - pump and dumps are illegal, so if JC was caught doing that he would be fired, his reputation would take a nose dive and he could make himself liable for the mother of all group action lawsuits from shareholders.
6 - "BB to raise equity and buy up other companies with a substantially higher share price" -> do you mean to say that if the SP was higher they would not reflect the underlaying value, and as such it would be a good way for BB to use shares in any acquisition?
7 - yeah.. I get it that you don't like JC, then moves he has made and you do not like the size of his pay package.



on this at least we agree.

1. Your attacking the person making the argument reduces your credibility in arguing back with me. I'm replying out of courtesy.
2. Do you believe he was the only person who could have taken a treasure trove of assets and not built the company back up? Let's get real here, I've followed this company for a long time, anyone might have come in and halted all operations and been more decisive, bottom line with the assets the company had, it shocks me what took the company so long to get revenue growing, but we know Chen wanted to paint his picture, with those steady graphs of revenue.
3. I would disagree that the company was going under, Chen applied what occurred to 9/11 he appealed to the audience over and over, he put that perception of failure in the company across the markets for years, too many people give him credit, when he was the one that slowed and reduced PR of the company, sure he might have wanted to slow things down, but this was on him.
4. I think talking up share price, and instilling confidence in shareholders are two different things. As I said, followed the company for a while and Chen has talked this company down more than most CEO's I've heard speak, he replaces that talking down with his own rhetoric of saving the company. At this point, the market doesn't believe him.
5. You're right, but I guess dump and pumps are not illegal right? No one is saying to pump and dump, but he could have avoided building a perception of failure over a shroud of mystery and smoke and mirrors with continued lack of transparency and financial engineering.
6. Well why don't we put it this way, looking at the CD it's clear the impact it had on share price, the share price also affects the fair value adjustments on GAAP, which we know has significantly skewed the picture and creates this FVA that is confusing to most, Chen fails to provide clarity. If there was no CD required, share price wouldn't remain so low with no risk of dilution, especially for a company that doesn't need the money, and with an organically higher share price, Chen could have raised equity, the same 60,000,000 shares at $20 could have diluted the stock for the same amount but brought in double the value of Chen's $10 Strike price, which is quite a slap in the face to shareholders who might expect that if Watsa wanted this arrangement he should buy in the open market, a bit unfair to have shareholders cover his loan and allow him to dilute them by 11%+ for monies that interest is being paid on unnecessarily. We should also note this constant regurgitation of the cash pile, which if we really look into has already suffered from quite some significant dilution and seems to have Chen, Watsa, the ET and others attached to them in the form of dilution, payments, and other forms but really it's all the same hits this cash pile, they've tagged their names on them at shareholders expense.
7. I think JC is ok, I don't see anything special, I think he turned around the company as most others would have, but took far longer than needed, might have accomplished the same thing but kept his gas on the pedal, especially if he took the CD, but instead Chen wanted to build a story with BB, he wanted his legacy to be attached to the company as well as Watsas. This is the same thing that the 2 ex-CEO's did, does buying a hockey team remind you of anything. This company is full of arrogance and management who bleed shareholders in the expectation of building glory and their own legacy, I think the true longs are sick and tired of this. The size of his pay package, absolutely do not like it, why should he get paid like the tech giants when this in fact is no longer a tech giant. Revenue growth even according to his lowered expectations are nothing special, sure we could have exponential growth but that's been the thinking for 5 years, and results have only been reduced. Sure Chen beat estimates over so many quarters, but let's not forget how low the estimates were at each quarter.

Seems easy for you to pick and choose what you want to talk about, but the reality is most shareholders are unhappy, and the lack of presence in any capacity by BlackBerry is a real concern. Share Price is a reflection of this, and to say otherwise you seem to be deluding yourself. Stay long I'm sure you'll get your $30, but to wait 10 years to go from 10-30; well in a massive bull run in the last 5 years, and who knows where we go in the next 5, The weighted time risk here would lead to a pretty minor return, all the while Chen has been getting countless millions we're talking in the 100's of millions for this compensation all at the expense of shareholders. What happened to his $100 value, why is he taking all this compensation at $30?

I'll quit posting on this board anyways, sick of all the cheerleaders who fail to hold the CEO accountable, or at least be open to other opinions. I can see why the state of these forums has gone downhill. BlackBerry's abysmal performance is the second. The forums and nearly everything about this company stinks of hatred of this type of arrogant, lack of transparent company. It's almost like Chen turned BB into the Hilary Clinton/Deep State of tech companies, everybody is disgusted and nobody is interested anymore.

[Corbu]

I'll quit posting on this board anyways, sick of all the cheerleaders who fail to hold the CEO accountable, or at least be open to other opinions.

1) "I'll quit posting on this board anyways": you should not. Differing views are welcomed.
2) "sick of all the cheerleaders": who says we are? Because some here do not agree with you does not make them cheerleaders, imo.
3) "or at least be open to other opinions": I don't quite agree, dalinxz. You have had ample opportunity to state your points and again, as much as you are entitled to your opinion, others are as well.

I, for one, am not happy with the present state of affairs. And I welcome criticism of what has been done. What I would look forward to, besides arguing the same points over and over again are some thoughts about what could happen or could be done looking forward.

[anon(9100201)]

1) "I'll quit posting on this board anyways": you should not. Differing views are welcomed.
2) "sick of all the cheerleaders": who says we are? Because some here do not agree with you does not make them cheerleaders, imo.
3) "or at least be open to other opinions": I don't quite agree, dalinxz. You have had ample opportunity to state your points and again, as much as you are entitled to your opinion, others are as well.

I, for one, am not happy with the present state of affairs. And I welcome criticism of what has been done. What I would look forward to, besides arguing the same points over and over again are some thoughts about what could happen or could be done looking forward.

Given the fact that the management never answers any questions from shareholders or provides detailed information about the product line up there is nothing that can be done with the current management and BOD since they have shown over and over again that they do not care for shareholder value.

To all the John Chen defencers: if you have a single evidence of shareholder friendly behaviour from management or the BDO from the past it would be very welcomed. Maybe I have overlooked something due to my rage against the management and BOD, but I am afraid that there is really no such incidence where managemnt or BOD worked for shareholders

[morganplus8]

Oh man...

Where's the *****'s hat when you need it??!!

Morgan, I made a mistake. I wrote "SENS" and I had meant to say "SESN"!!

I hate to ask you again but... ;-)

The good thing is we now know we should avoid SENS...

Sorry, mate. No obligation on your part, obviously. Just if you feel like it and have some time.

Thanks!

Alright, this one makes up for the weak investment in SENS!

I know this one as Eleven Biotherapeutics and it is a well run company, well financed, a decent float and well into a Phase III study. I don't know much about this type of cancer but it does look like an unmet need on a scalable level. Everything looks good, its burn rate is not high at all, and, they are agressively looking to the future. The only reason I don't own it is because I'm looking at small companies that are further along in their development (less risk and greater potential return). The proper thing to do when investing in micro-cap stocks is to hold several of them and for this reason you can invest in this one as a hedge. It is a couple of years behind stocks in this universe that I hold now. Keep an eye on it. Buy it if you can stay in it for another year or more.

As for the great debate regarding BlackBerry, please, if you don't like the company and you need to compare it to a tiny fraction of the market to punish Chen's accomplishments, move on to other investments. Aside from Chen, BlackBerry has amazing assets which translate into a limited downside. There are other reasons to like a company besides your personal hatred of Chen himself. Try to focus on how you can be happy in your current environment and not spend useless time living in an environment that makes you wake up each morning and hate on everything around you.

Thanks to Corbu and the others who try to make some sense or rationalize the Chen/BB debate. You have more strength then do I to keep going back to it.

[Corbu]

Many thanks for taking the time re SESN, Morgan.

Much appreciated.

[anon(9100201)]

Alright, this one makes up for the weak investment in SENS!

I know this one as Eleven Biotherapeutics and it is a well run company, well financed, a decent float and well into a Phase III study. I don't know much about this type of cancer but it does look like an unmet need on a scalable level. Everything looks good, its burn rate is not high at all, and, they are agressively looking to the future. The only reason I don't own it is because I'm looking at small companies that are further along in their development (less risk and greater potential return). The proper thing to do when investing in micro-cap stocks is to hold several of them and for this reason you can invest in this one as a hedge. It is a couple of years behind stocks in this universe that I hold now. Keep an eye on it. Buy it if you can stay in it for another year or more.

As for the great debate regarding BlackBerry, please, if you don't like the company and you need to compare it to a tiny fraction of the market to punish Chen's accomplishments, move on to other investments. Aside from Chen, BlackBerry has amazing assets which translate into a limited downside. There are other reasons to like a company besides your personal hatred of Chen himself. Try to focus on how you can be happy in your current environment and not spend useless time living in an environment that makes you wake up each morning and hate on everything around you.

Thanks to Corbu and the others who try to make some sense or rationalize the Chen/BB debate. You have more strength then do I to keep going back to it.

What accomplishments?
- Shrinking revenues every quarter besides telling investors that 500 million $ per quarter would be the bottom?
- Sitting on a cash pile and paying interest to main shareholder for useless debt?
- Forking in huge compensation packages while ignoring investors complaints?
- Working for short sellers by down shooting every rally with murky ER numbers, surprise lowering of outlooks and constantyl stressing about the "miracle" that BlackBerry is still around?

Really I do not see any accomplishment by John Chen that would be worth his compensation or the fanboy following that a lot of forum members display with every post.

[W Hoa]

Thanks to Corbu and the others who try to make some sense or rationalize the Chen/BB debate. You have more strength then do I to keep going back to it.

It feels like an interrogation room here sometimes. "Admit to what we are saying and sign the confession and we will stop beating you!!". OK OK Chen sucks. Can I go back to my cell and die a quiet death now?

[anon(9100201)]

It feels like an interrogation room here sometimes. "Admit to what we are saying and sign the confession!!". OK OK Chen sucks. Can I go back to my cell and die a quiet death now?

Works the other way round as well: "Celebrate and praise Chen or shut up!"

[W Hoa]

Works the other way round as well: "Celebrate and praise Chen or shut up!"

Which would be true if it were correct. I think the ratio of 'praise' to 'sucks' posts is about 100 to 1 in favor of the latter.

[morganplus8]

It feels like an interrogation room here sometimes. "Admit to what we are saying and sign the confession and we will stop beating you!!". OK OK Chen sucks. Can I go back to my cell and die a quiet death now?

Ha! You are so right! I don't know how two individuals can get up in the morning and hate all day! I go out on the lake and jump in the water and can't remember anything else. Yet these two are here from the start, posting messages at a cult level that are too long to consider reading and come off as one indivdual who was fired. Anyway, back to having fun! Have a great day and watch those RSI levels for us my friend!