09-08-13 06:08 PM
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  1. dguy123's Avatar
    But that's the point, isn't it? Producing and delivering a product that people love and can't imagine being without.

    People can say whatever they wish about Apple and deride their users as iSheep or fanboys, etc... but it is undeniable that Apple understands it's customers better than anyone in the sector and delivers the experience they want consistently. I don't view that as "enslavememt" (I wish the OP had chosen a better term...but I digress ) I view that as a company delivering and it's users satisfied enough that they see no compelling reason to leave.

    It really is no different than any other consumer product be it cars, televisions, household appliances, etc.... People like what they like and until that ceases to provide them the experience / performance they are looking for they are reticent to change
    It's not that they love it and can't imagine being without it, not at all.

    It's the cost of leaving. No apple accessoires work with anything else. No standard connectors, no standard outputs, no standard chargers. All your adapters become useless and you'd feel like a chump for having purchased adapters that should never have been needed in the first place.

    If you leave Apple your wallet is punished. You have to buy EVERYTHING all over again.
    So slavery? A little bit, yes. There are many forms of financial slavery, and Apple's tactics do employ at least one of them.
    And it is definitely a conscious dcision in apole's part for that exact reason. It's smart business to lock your customers in as best you can. Apple is quite good at it.

    Leaving BlackBerry, for android is no biggie. All you lose are th apps you've purchased. Same for changing from most devices so long as Apple isn't in the equation.


    Posted via CB10
    09-07-13 11:07 AM
  2. Bsbudd's Avatar
    Components are factory made by machines.

    Devices are assembled by hand. BBRY's devices tend to be assembled in Canada and Mexico.

    Apple uses suicide-proof slave labor.
    Do you know what the minimum wage is in Mexico? it's actually lower than in China.
    Whoever says Apple uses slave labor, well Blackberry just went to a new low.

    I'm not a fan of apple but you guys need need to do a bit more research before posting and mocking down the competition. All of the technology companies use cheap labor to assemble their products, Blackberry included.
    kevinnugent and kbz1960 like this.
    09-07-13 11:51 AM
  3. dguy123's Avatar
    Wow so now expandable space is a bad thing? The rest, OK. But expandable space is a bad thing? Apple really has you on that one.
    Umm, the connector argument doesn't hold up either.
    Yes the original 30 pin PROPRIETARY connector was too big, and the new PROPRIETARY one is smaller but it's still nonstandard, still requires a bag full of adapters to connect to other devices and is still bigger than a micro-usb connector.

    Yup. Progress :-/


    Posted via CB10
    09-07-13 12:38 PM
  4. dguy123's Avatar
    That's not splitting hairs at all.
    There is a world of difference you are choosing to ignore.

    Posted via CB10
    09-07-13 12:40 PM
  5. kevinnugent's Avatar
    That's not splitting hairs at all.
    There is a world of difference you are choosing to ignore.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm not the one trying to justify Blackberry's use of 3rd world conditions to enhance their profits by saying their are different. They use Foxconn, they have factories in countries where the wages and conditions are worse than China (Mexico), and yet Apple are always the "big ugly bast*rds who use slave labour".
    09-07-13 09:13 PM
  6. morlock_man's Avatar
    I'm not the one trying to justify Blackberry's use of 3rd world conditions to enhance their profits by saying their are different. They use Foxconn, they have factories in countries where the wages and conditions are worse than China (Mexico), and yet Apple are always the "big ugly bast*rds who use slave labour".
    BBRY assembles devices in Canada too.

    Those b@stards, using cheap first world labor.

    Does Apple assemble any devices in the US?

    No.

    Do they have any plans to hire people to assemble devices in the US in the future...?

    No, they want to use robots. So they'll be creating no new jobs and just keeping all the money for themselves.
    09-07-13 11:06 PM
  7. Bsbudd's Avatar
    BBRY assembles devices in Canada too.

    Those b@stards, using cheap first world labor.

    Does Apple assemble any devices in the US?

    No.

    Do they have any plans to hire people to assemble devices in the US in the future...?

    No, they want to use robots. So they'll be creating no new jobs and just keeping all the money for themselves.
    The new Mac Pro will be assembled in the Texas and will include components made in Illinois and Florida, and rely on equipment produced in Kentucky and Michigan.


    Here is a list of components used in the Z10. Not one component is made in Canada.
    • Samsung K3PE0E000A - Multichip Memory - 2 GB Mobile DDR2 SDRAM
    • Samsung KLMAG2GE4A - Multichip Memory - 16 GB MLC NAND Flash, Controller
    • Qualcomm MSM8960 - Snapdragon S4 Baseband / Applications Processor
    • Qualcomm WCD9310 - Audio Codec
    • Qualcomm PM8921 - Power Management IC
    • Qualcomm RTR8600 - GSM / CDMA / W-CDMA / LTE RxD Transceiver + GPS
    • Texas Instruments WL1273L - Single-Chip 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN, Bluetooth, and FM
    • TriQuint TQP6M9017 - Dual-Band WLAN Module
    • RF Micro Devices RF7252 - CDMA/WCDMA BAND 2 Linear Power Amplifier Module
    • RF Micro Devices RF7303 - LTE/UMTS/CDMA BAND 3 Linear Power Amplifier Module
    • Inside Secure SECUREAD IC5C633I4- NFC Solution Module
    • Avago ACPM-5017 - LTE Band XVII Power Amplifier
    • Avago ACPM-7051 - Quad-Band GSM / W-CDMA Bands I & V Power Amplifier
    • Sony CXM3582UR - SP10T Antenna Switch
    • ST Microelectronics LIS3DH - MEMS Accelerometer
    • STMicroelectronics LSM330DLC - 3D Accelerometer & 3D Gyroscope
    • Synaptics Clearpad 3203 - Capacitive Touchscreen Controller
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-07-13 11:21 PM
  8. morlock_man's Avatar
    The new Mac Pro will be assembled in the Texas and will include components made in Illinois and Florida, and rely on equipment produced in Kentucky and Michigan.


    Here is a list of components used in the Z10. Not one component is made in Canada.
    • Samsung K3PE0E000A - Multichip Memory - 2 GB Mobile DDR2 SDRAM
    • Samsung KLMAG2GE4A - Multichip Memory - 16 GB MLC NAND Flash, Controller
    • Qualcomm MSM8960 - Snapdragon S4 Baseband / Applications Processor
    • Qualcomm WCD9310 - Audio Codec
    • Qualcomm PM8921 - Power Management IC
    • Qualcomm RTR8600 - GSM / CDMA / W-CDMA / LTE RxD Transceiver + GPS
    • Texas Instruments WL1273L - Single-Chip 802.11a/b/g/n WLAN, Bluetooth, and FM
    • TriQuint TQP6M9017 - Dual-Band WLAN Module
    • RF Micro Devices RF7252 - CDMA/WCDMA BAND 2 Linear Power Amplifier Module
    • RF Micro Devices RF7303 - LTE/UMTS/CDMA BAND 3 Linear Power Amplifier Module
    • Inside Secure SECUREAD IC5C633I4- NFC Solution Module
    • Avago ACPM-5017 - LTE Band XVII Power Amplifier
    • Avago ACPM-7051 - Quad-Band GSM / W-CDMA Bands I & V Power Amplifier
    • Sony CXM3582UR - SP10T Antenna Switch
    • ST Microelectronics LIS3DH - MEMS Accelerometer
    • STMicroelectronics LSM330DLC - 3D Accelerometer & 3D Gyroscope
    • Synaptics Clearpad 3203 - Capacitive Touchscreen Controller
    So?

    Do you understand the difference between component manufacturing and device assembly?

    Apple's computer line has never been their biggest seller, why is a Singapore-based company assembling only one product line in the States?

    It's really just a marketing gimmick so they can slap "Made in America" on the back of their devices to try to sell more. And this is only came about after Tim Cook had to appear before the US Senate to explain why they pay nothing in corporate taxes and have no intention on starting.
    09-08-13 08:14 AM
  9. torndownunit's Avatar
    It's not that they love it and can't imagine being without it, not at all.

    It's the cost of leaving. No apple accessoires work with anything else. No standard connectors, no standard outputs, no standard chargers. All your adapters become useless and you'd feel like a chump for having purchased adapters that should never have been needed in the first place.

    If you leave Apple your wallet is punished. You have to buy EVERYTHING all over again.
    So slavery? A little bit, yes. There are many forms of financial slavery, and Apple's tactics do employ at least one of them.
    And it is definitely a conscious dcision in apole's part for that exact reason. It's smart business to lock your customers in as best you can. Apple is quite good at it.

    Leaving BlackBerry, for android is no biggie. All you lose are th apps you've purchased. Same for changing from most devices so long as Apple isn't in the equation.


    Posted via CB10
    I guess the thing is that if you are happy with your product, none of these things are an issue.

    I left Apple for Android recently, more to try something else rather than any real dissatisfaction. My last iPhone performed great for 3 years. I personally don't really care about losing accessories or apps. Anyone who makes the decision to change knows this is the deal. It seems to only be an issue to people who have issues with Apple.
    Bsbudd likes this.
    09-08-13 08:22 AM
  10. Bsbudd's Avatar
    So?

    Do you understand the difference between component manufacturing and device assembly?

    Apple's computer line has never been their biggest seller, why is a Singapore-based company assembling only one product line in the States?

    It's really just a marketing gimmick so they can slap "Made in America" on the back of their devices to try to sell more. And this is only came about after Tim Cook had to appear before the US Senate to explain why they pay nothing in corporate taxes and have no intention on starting.
    I responded to your post "BBRY assembles devices in Canada too" and you asked if Apple assembles a (ANY) Product in the USA. And yes they do, the new Mac Pro including components made in the USA. I certainly understand the meaning.

    Marketing Gimmick or not, Blackberry is riding on the same marketing wave "Assembled in Canada". Apple at least says "Designed in California" and "Assembled / Made in China".

    I don't own an Apple device anymore but I have to give them the thumbs up for trying to bring some jobs back to the USA by using components made in their country, which obviously you can't say about Blackberry.

    Since you've mentioned taxes. It is a loophole which Apple exploited and was and to my knowledge still is perfectly legal. Apple didn't get charged with any penalties.

    The fact is Blackberry is doing exactly the same thing like any other tech company. Cheap labor and components made by companies overseas.
    Last edited by Bsbudd; 09-08-13 at 12:21 PM.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-08-13 12:09 PM
  11. morlock_man's Avatar
    I responded to your post "BBRY assembles devices in Canada too" and you asked if Apple assembles a (ANY) Product in the USA. And yes they do, the new Mac Pro including components made in the USA. I certainly understand the meaning.

    Marketing Gimmick or not, Blackberry is riding on the same marketing wave "Assembled in Canada". Apple at least says "Designed in California" and "Assembled / Made in China".

    I don't own an Apple device anymore but I have to give them the thumbs up for trying to bring some jobs back to the USA by using components made in their country, which obviously you can't say about Blackberry.

    Since you've mentioned taxes. It is a loophole which Apple exploited and was and to my knowledge still is perfectly legal. Apple didn't get charged with any penalties.

    The fact is Blackberry is doing exactly the same thing like any other tech company. Cheap labor and components made by companies overseas.
    FAIL, they don't assemble any devices in the US right now. They've promised to assemble a single product line in the States, but haven't actually committed to anything. And they've only agreed to a single product line and locally sourced components because the Senate came down on them for tax avoidance.

    Assembled in Canada means that Canadian workers were paid at least minimum wage, most likely higher, to assemble the devices, not pennies per day.

    As for BlackBerry buying components within Canada, this is a stupid line of thinking. I'm sorry if you're offended, but it's dumb. Canada has a tenth the population that the States does. Do you think we can just slap together component factories out of the blue to compete with countries that have populations in the hundreds of millions?

    Don't be dumb.

    As for the loophole, it's whats throwing your economy into another depression. If your government wasn't already in the pockets of major corporations they'd be demanding they pay their fair share of taxes. If you weren't so enamored with Apple's ability to find loopholes in the system to make themselves rich, you too would be demanding that they pay their share like everyone else.

    Apple has become not only too big to fail, but too big to properly reprimand.

    If private individual made the claim that they'd earned billions on the backs of foreign slaves and paid nothing in taxes, he'd be vilified by the media. But an American corporation does it and it's just smart business.

    Hypocrites.
    09-08-13 01:18 PM
  12. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Do they have any plans to hire people to assemble devices in the US in the future...?

    No, they want to use robots. So they'll be creating no new jobs and just keeping all the money for themselves.
    Yes, that's it. In fact, the robots will build themselves. It's perfect.

    FYI, when those robots become self-aware, we should all build a bomb shelter and begin stockpiling food. Also, if your name is "Sarah Connor" or "John Connor", you're probably going to want to stop answering the door. Just saying.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-08-13 01:22 PM
  13. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    [SIZE=7]If private individual made the claim that they'd earned billions on the backs of foreign slaves and paid nothing in taxes, he'd be vilified by the media. But an American corporation does it and it's just smart business.

    Hypocrites.
    Any private individual that made that claim would be a m0ron. But, I'm sure you have an example of such an individual in order to prove your claim about hypocrisy. I'd love to hear it.

    As for "foreign slaves," explain how they're slaves again? I seemed to have missed that.
    Bsbudd and kevinnugent like this.
    09-08-13 01:26 PM
  14. Bsbudd's Avatar
    FAIL, they don't assemble any devices in the US right now. They've promised to assemble a single product line in the States, but haven't actually committed to anything. And they've only agreed to a single product line and locally sourced components because the Senate came down on them for tax avoidance.

    Assembled in Canada means that Canadian workers were paid at least minimum wage, most likely higher, to assemble the devices, not pennies per day.

    As for BlackBerry buying components within Canada, this is a stupid line of thinking. I'm sorry if you're offended, but it's dumb. Canada has a tenth the population that the States does. Do you think we can just slap together component factories out of the blue to compete with countries that have populations in the hundreds of millions?

    Don't be dumb.
    I'm not dumb and you are obviously implying I'm american. I'm not.
    As I' said I'm not an Apple fan boy but those "hypocrites" as you are putting it doing pretty darn good in my opinion.

    I respect your opinion even though I believe it is extremely narrow minded and strongly disagree with it. Don't think we need to discuss this further.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-08-13 01:49 PM
  15. Eric Ton's Avatar
    Any private individual that made that claim would be a m0ron. But, I'm sure you have an example of such an individual in order to prove your claim about hypocrisy. I'd love to hear it.

    As for "foreign slaves," explain how they're slaves again? I seemed to have missed that.
    his definition of a slave is: thousands of people line up just to sign up for a chance to work at foxconn because not having a job is better

    company get criticize for not creating jobs, and when they do they also get criticize, oh well u can't please everyone

    but then again, people ***** at everything The Weirdest Thing People Hate About the iPhone 5

    Thousands line up for a job at Foxconn as factory starts producing new Apple iPhone and Apple iPad
    09-08-13 01:55 PM
  16. kevinnugent's Avatar
    Haters gonna hate.
    09-08-13 04:55 PM
  17. morlock_man's Avatar
    Any private individual that made that claim would be a m0ron. But, I'm sure you have an example of such an individual in order to prove your claim about hypocrisy. I'd love to hear it.

    As for "foreign slaves," explain how they're slaves again? I seemed to have missed that.
    So it's ok when corporations admit to paying no taxes because they have enough money to setup tax shelters in foreign countries, but when a private individual does it, it's a crime.

    Double standards.

    As for foreign slaves, during the Foxconn riots security was beating up workers who wanted to unionize. They also had to install suicide nets to keep people from killing themselves by jumping off the buildings. What about that doesn't sound like slavery? If they were simply free to leave do you think they'd need to be installing suicide nets?
    09-08-13 05:10 PM
  18. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    So it's ok when corporations admit to paying no taxes because they have enough money to setup tax shelters in foreign countries, but when a private individual does it, it's a crime.

    Double standards.
    Actually no, it's not a double standard at all. There are rules for citizens and rules for corporations. Corporations are not people. But here's the kicker in that little analogy of yours: any citizen who wants his or her income treated like that of a corporation can set up their own corporation, and then they can play all the same games large corporations do, including keeping off-shore-earned funds off-shore. And you know what? It's completely legal, and happens more often than you think.

    As for foreign slaves, during the Foxconn riots security was beating up workers who wanted to unionize. They also had to install suicide nets to keep people from killing themselves by jumping off the buildings. What about that doesn't sound like slavery? If they were simply free to leave do you think they'd need to be installing suicide nets?
    So in other words, it's not actually slavery, it just "sounds" like it. Thanks for clearing that up.

    Oh by the way, San Francisco is moving ahead with a plan to install suicide safety nets at the Golden Gate Bridge: Golden Gate Bridge Suicide Barrier

    There's no word yet on how San Francisco will duck 13th amendment, since thousands of people cross the bridge each day, and as you note above, the existence of a suicide net is per se proof of slavery. It's almost as if. . . that's it! Apple bought the Golden Gate Bridge, and they're going to build an iPhone factory there. With robots that will become self-aware, causing the end of the world, like SkyNet. Therefore, Apple is SkyNet. It all makes sense now.

    Lastly, what you described doesn't sound like slavery, at least to me. I know slavery to exist when people are bought and sold. It's when you literally have no way out, not simply no better job. Frankly, as a member of a group whose people came to this country as actual slaves, I find the comparison extremely off-putting.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-08-13 05:38 PM
  19. morlock_man's Avatar
    I'm not dumb and you are obviously implying I'm american. I'm not.
    As I' said I'm not an Apple fan boy but those "hypocrites" as you are putting it doing pretty darn good in my opinion.

    I respect your opinion even though I believe it is extremely narrow minded and strongly disagree with it. Don't think we need to discuss this further.
    It doesn't matter if you're not American, you're displaying a poor sense of perspective.

    You seem to think one of the least densely populated countries in the world has the money to build dozens of factories, spending billions of dollars, just so we can reinvent the wheel.
    09-08-13 05:38 PM
  20. morlock_man's Avatar
    Actually no, it's not a double standard at all. There are rules for citizens and rules for corporations. Corporations are not people. But here's the kicker in that little analogy of yours: any citizen who wants his or her income treated like that of a corporation can set up their own corporation, and then they can play all the same games large corporations do, including keeping off-shore-earned funds off-shore. And you know what? It's completely legal, and happens more often than you think.
    Yeah, but only the RICH can do it. The RICH get RICHER and the POOR eat dirt.

    So in other words, it's not actually slavery, it just "sounds" like it. Thanks for clearing that up.
    /|\ Moral relativism.

    Oh by the way, San Francisco is moving ahead with a plan to install suicide safety nets at the Golden Gate Bridge: Golden Gate Bridge Suicide Barrier

    There's no word yet on how San Francisco will duck 13th amendment, since thousands of people cross the bridge each day, and as you note above, the existence of a suicide net is per se proof of slavery. It's almost as if. . . that's it! APple bought the Golden Gate Bridge! It all makes sense now.

    Lastly, what you described doesn't sound like slavery, at least to me. I know slavery to exist when people are bought and sold. It's when you literally have no way out, not simply no better job. Frankly, as a member of a group whose people came to this country as actual slaves, I find the comparison extremely off-putting.
    Good for you. So you own slavery now.

    No one else of any other color is allowed to be considered a slave anymore.

    There whole concept of being slaves to corporations is completely acceptable, because corporations aren't people, and neither are assembly line workers who are beaten when they question the way their being treated.
    09-08-13 05:44 PM
  21. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Yeah, but only the RICH can do it. The RICH get RICHER and the POOR eat dirt.
    Ah. So first the distinction was "individual vs corporate." That fell flat, so now you're trying a "rich vs. poor" line. Desperate, but I'll respond anyway. Simply stated, the number of poor people with foreign income is extraordinarily low, and the truly poor don’t pay income taxes at all, which are the precise taxes Apple avoided by keeping their money off-shore. Nice try, though. (To be fair, the poor do pay other forms of taxes, including payroll taxes and sales taxes.)

    Good for you. So you own slavery now.
    Translation: you’re running out of things to say. I never thought the day would come.

    No one else of any other color is allowed to be considered a slave anymore.
    I didn’t make any statements about any other groups. I merely responded to the question in which you asked whether something sounded like slavery to me. I didn’t claim to speak for anyone else. Again, you’re seeing things I’m not writing. Please read more carefully.

    There whole concept of being slaves to corporations is completely acceptable, because corporations aren't people, and neither are assembly line workers who are beaten when they question the way their being treated.
    On the contrary, it’s not that slavery is okay, but rather that the people at Foxconn aren’t slaves. But I understand you have this unreasonable Apple hatred, and that you need to construct whatever fiction fits your worldview. By all means, please continue. It’s really fascinating to see it play out, though I’m not sure the fine people of Newfoundland would agree.
    kevinnugent likes this.
    09-08-13 05:59 PM
  22. Bsbudd's Avatar
    Actually no, it's not a double standard at all. There are rules for citizens and rules for corporations. Corporations are not people. But here's the kicker in that little analogy of yours: any citizen who wants his or her income treated like that of a corporation can set up their own corporation, and then they can play all the same games large corporations do, including keeping off-shore-earned funds off-shore. And you know what? It's completely legal, and happens more often than you think.
    Wiki Cydia, you are wasting your time explaining something to a person he/she can't possibly comprehend. Ignorance is bliss!!
    torndownunit likes this.
    09-08-13 06:01 PM
  23. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Wiki Cydia, you are wasting your time explaining something to a person he/she can't possibly comprehend. Ignorance is bliss!!
    You're right, though I remain hopeful.
    09-08-13 06:08 PM
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