Is Apple's user experience and ecosystem, Enslavement OR BlackBerry's Achilles' heel?

9 smart and useful features of Apple�s iPhone ecosystem that make it hard to switch — Tech News and Analysis

I personally think that Apple's robust ecosystem is good from a business perspective but is also an "implicit" or subconscious enslavement of a lot of Apple users. On the other hand, it won't hurt if BlackBerry had a "sound" ecosystem, shy of enslaving its users. :laughing: I guess I'm sounding hypocritical.

Please note, I'm not bashing Apple (I do own Apple products) but I just find the "indie" style of BlackBerry very appealing.

I think in the perfect world, pieces of a good ecosystem will be universal. We can dream, right? LOL.

But as it is now, a good ecosystem does make it hard to leave. Folks very comfortable, and if they are satisfied, the need to try something else is reduced. I think Apple does this very well.

In my opinion, BBRY had the foundation of a compelling one way back when. BB Desktop, BBM, apps, accessories and more. It just missed a unifying piece like iTunes (which I hate, btw, and I think Apple stumbled into). Had BBRY capitalized on those elements, I'm guessing folks would not have been so willing to move on to competing software.

They call Apples system a "walled garden". It's very nice inside, but there's still a wall all around you. They get to control the experience to the nth degree and I guess that cuts both ways. You either love it, like many hundreds of millions do or not.

Apple defiantly has its good points but they do make it hard for someone to want to leave and try something new. While Apple may have the advantage in apps over Blackberry, I think, after experiencing iOS 6 and now BB10, the BB10 os is better that the iOS

I tried my mums iPhone 5 and if was a terrible experience after my z10.

Posted via SEGA master system

There is nothing else like Apple's system. As a user of their iPad in the field the "package" is hard to beat. I expected Blackberry to do the same with their tablet and new phones, but they have not been able to pull it all together.

Like Apple or hate them, I have to admire the "walled garden", at least it works!

For Education, Why TI-83 > iPad - Slashdot

Writing in The Atlantic, Phil Nichols makes a convincing case for why educational technologies should be more like graphing calculators and less like iPads. Just messing around with TI-BASIC on a TI-83 Plus, Nichols recalls, 'helped me cultivate many of the overt and discrete habits of mind necessary for autonomous, self-directed learning.' So, with all those fancy iPads at their schools, today's kids must really be programming up a storm, right? Wrong. Nichols, who's currently pursuing a PhD in education, laments, 'The iPad is among the recent panaceas being peddled to schools, but like those that came before, its ostensibly subversive shell houses a fairly conventional approach to learning. Where Texas Instruments graphing calculators include a programming framework accessible even to amateurs, writing code for an iPad is restricted to those who purchase an Apple developer account, create programs that align with Apple standards, and submit their finished products for Apple's approval prior to distribution.'"

Enslavement? Not at all. I can choose to use an Apple product or I can choose not to use it. I choose Apple and its so called "walled garden" because I love how it integrates to iTunes, iCloud and Find my Phone (especially when I leave it between the cushions on my couch which happens CONSTANTLY.)

Enslavement by its very nature offers no choice. I can choose to buy or not to buy. And if I wanted an iPhone and did not want to be within its "walled garden" I could jailbreak.

No enslavement at all.

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

No enslavement at all.

Except the Chinese.

Originally Posted by morlock_man

Except the Chinese.

You are referring to Foxconn. Are you aware that components of BlackBerry devices are manufactured at Foxconn?

I don't think its enslavement, but yes it definitely is BlackBerrys Achilles heel, even more so with BB10.

Let me explain what I mean with my BB10 comment. We all know users buy apps, accessories and media for their devices, this obviously is the same for most users. So heres where the problem comes, Apple with iOS have had a very steady progression of the OS, and while apps have needed updates per iOS iteration, it hasn't ever really killed any apps. This means a users app purchase from several years ago is still current, therefore they still see an ROI on that app investment. Now lets translate that to BlackBerry. The same statement held true for much of BBOS, sure they needed updates, maybe even reworks, but BBOS was all the same java OS base, so an app potentially purchased in BBOS5 days could nowadays with updates work on BBOS7.1. Then comes BB10. Its a whole new start, which means apps don't just move over, the developer has to make them from scratch again, and from this many apps have (currently) not been brought across. that means any app I purchased before this year is effectively potentially dead money if I move to BB10.
Now where that becomes a real problem, is if im losing all my apps, then from an ecosystem side of things my price to upgrade is irrelevant because if I go Android, BB10 or iOS it really doesn't matter, for the large part I have to start over.
That's one less reason that I `have to have the next BlackBerry`, because im not tied to their platform anymore.

Of course people will say you choose phones for other reasons too, and I agree, but that's how I see it pertaining to the app ecosystem.
Also from an ecosyetm point, what really does make me cringe is every time I hear BlackBerry go on about in car stuff and QNX. I can walk into pretty much any car showroom in the world and order a car with ipod connectivity, ask for BlackBerry connectivity? yea, good luck. `oh but the base of their OS is QNX` well then its a very poorly leveraged asset by BlackBerry.

Originally Posted by seanwplandry

Apple defiantly has its good points but they do make it hard for someone to want to leave and try something new.

But that's the point, isn't it? Producing and delivering a product that people love and can't imagine being without.

People can say whatever they wish about Apple and deride their users as iSheep or fanboys, etc... but it is undeniable that Apple understands it's customers better than anyone in the sector and delivers the experience they want consistently. I don't view that as "enslavememt" (I wish the OP had chosen a better term...but I digress :) ) I view that as a company delivering and it's users satisfied enough that they see no compelling reason to leave.

It really is no different than any other consumer product be it cars, televisions, household appliances, etc.... People like what they like and until that ceases to provide them the experience / performance they are looking for they are reticent to change

I think there are plenty of people that would like to leave but they don't because of the investment so they just keep using it whether they still love it or not.

Originally Posted by kbz1960

I think there are plenty of people that would like to leave but they don't because of the investment so they just keep using it whether they still love it or not.

Isn't that true of every platform though?

/side note/ 43K! Wow!!

Originally Posted by amazinglygraceless

Isn't that true of every platform though?

/side note/ 43K! Wow!!

Not BBRY :rotfl:

Sorry I couldn't resist. But probably. I'm not that invested but I'm not a big app person. Heck even for me $100 spent on apps over years would be no big deal to lose as I got my use out of them, probably don't use most of them anymore and most apps are pretty cheap so the ones I really use and want aren't going to cost me thousands or even hundreds of dollars.

Originally Posted by kbz1960

Not BBRY :rotfl:

Sorry I couldn't resist. But probably. I'm not that invested but I'm not a big app person. Heck even for me $100 spent on apps over years would be no big deal to lose as I got my use out of them, probably don't use most of them anymore and most apps are pretty cheap so the ones I really use and want aren't going to cost me thousands or even hundreds of dollars.

BlackBerry did the opposite, it did everything to make you leave. No company has done worst when it comes to marketing and pr. As if the company has a disconnection with the regular consumer base.

I don't think it is hard to switch. I have used iPhone for 3 years until switching to Z10. I was unhappy with the so-called ecosystem by Apple, at least iTunes is a very inconvenient tool for sync. The devices of Apple never have the following things : - 1)expandable memory 2) universal charging port 3) HDMI out 4) swappable battery 5) File Manager. The above missing things are the key factors that I said bye-bye to Apple.
People will agree that they don't care Apple products that use its proprietary accessories, they can buy adaptors, they can buy Apple TV bah bah bah... but I am not so silly to pay those unnecessary extra dollars.

I am extremely happy with the experience with BB10 today. My laptop recognizes my Z10 as an external hard drive, so I can just drag files to C Drive for backup within a couple of minutes. BlackBerry Link automatically sync my media files wireless when I step into my house. Not just from my experience , but also all of people I know who uses iPhone are complaining iTunes is the very bad software to tinker about.

In my 3-year Apple life, I never bought songs/movie/apps from App Store/itunes. All I downloaded must be free. So I can easily switch to other platforms without headache. With Skooday/Easy Tune on my Z10, I enjoy listening to all my favorite songs for free. All top ten or more iTunes songs are available in Skooday for free, why I am so silly to buy songs from iTunes.

So I would say ecosystem exists only if you build a wall by yourself to block youself from going out to see a more beautiful world. I had an iPhone, but I didn't buy songs from iTunes, I didn't store anything on iCloud, I never had a Mac, I never had an iPad, so that Apple ecosystem doesn't exist in my world.

Posted via CB10

Just to add. Accessories add to this too, I didn't think about them since I don't buy many of those either.

So when apple changed their port. Could people get adaptors for their old accessories or did they have to buy new ones?

Originally Posted by kbz1960

Just to add. Accessories add to this too, I didn't think about them since I don't buy many of those either.

So when apple changed their port. Could people get adaptors for their old accessories or did they have to buy new ones?

When Apple changes from the 30 pin dock connector to the 8 pin lighting connector, Apple released an adopter. I personally went out and bought new accessories though.

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

You are referring to Foxconn. Are you aware that components of BlackBerry devices are manufactured at Foxconn?

Components are factory made by machines.

Devices are assembled by hand. BBRY's devices tend to be assembled in Canada and Mexico.

Apple uses suicide-proof slave labor.

Originally Posted by morlock_man

Components are factory made by machines.

Devices are assembled by hand. BBRY's devices tend to be assembled in Canada and Mexico.

Apple uses suicide-proof slave labor.

Machines are run by humans. Production control is run by humans. Plant oversight is run by humans.

If you object to Foxconn then I would assume that you do not use any of the myriad electronics products they produce.

Social conscience also has other such constraints. You also don't own any Nike products. You also have never bought, worn, or received any diamonds. You also don't eat salads or eat produce imported from Latin America.

Or is a social conscience only applicable when pertaining to Apple products?


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Originally Posted by qbnkelt

Or is a social conscience only applicable when pertaining to Apple products?

You may be on to something there.

Originally Posted by qbnkelt

Machines are run by humans. Production control is run by humans. Plant oversight is run by humans.

If you object to Foxconn then I would assume that you do not use any of the myriad electronics products they produce.

Social conscience also has other such constraints. You also don't own any Nike products. You also have never bought, worn, or received any diamonds. You also don't eat salads or eat produce imported from Latin America.

Or is a social conscience only applicable when pertaining to Apple products?


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If you like, you can consider advancements in the component industry to be similar to the development of the cotton gin? Just amounts to a need for an increased slave-base? However, there have never been any riots or suicides reported at a BBRY factory.

I don't own or purchase anything by Nike, I have no diamonds, and most produce I eat is locally sourced... but maybe that's only because I'm cheap, not socially conscious.

As for BBRY phones, consider them the least evil of the bunch:

Attachment 197703


How Evil Is Your Smartphone?

It's almost like Apple is parodying itself.

Parody of 1984 Apple Commercial - YouTube

Originally Posted by morlock_man

As for BBRY phones, consider them the least evil of the bunch:

If you're using that table as your source, they're not the least evil. But by all means, keep at it. It's really entertaining.