07-17-13 07:27 PM
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  1. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Well they have launched 1 out of 6 products after 2 years...what part do you not get "They are just Starting"

    Posted via CB10
    There are some things in which you have to hit the ground running, and if you don't, you're already behind. This is one of those things.
    07-02-13 11:09 AM
  2. anon1727506's Avatar
    EVERYONE including BBRY expected better numbers.

    It was BAD... we have to accept that and move on, comparisons to other platforms back in the early days of smartphones becoming mainstream are not relevant to today market. The fact is that to attract developer we need a LOT more then 2.7M worldwide users - remember many developers are only looking at certain markets - so out of the 2.7M users... how may are in the UE? how many in North America? how many in the Middle East...

    You can see how breaking this number down further really shrinks what an individual developer like Netflix would be looking at, and why these low sales number are bad for building the future of the platform.

    We have to hope that we new device, new price points, lower prices on existing devices or promotions (Verizon dropped the Z10 by $100), and with updates to fix software problems that the next quarter will see better growth.
    07-02-13 11:39 AM
  3. sosumi11's Avatar
    Also, does anyone know if that was the price unlocked, or locked to a carrier? If it was unlocked, then you're comparing apples and oranges with your $200 pricing for the Z10, since that phone was $550 unlocked (on AT&T, at launch) from what I can tell.
    Complete iPhone Pricing History

    The iPhone was not offered unlocked until 14 June 2011
    peter9477 likes this.
    07-02-13 11:57 AM
  4. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    There are some things in which you have to hit the ground running, and if you don't, you're already behind. This is one of those things.
    Ideally yes you would like to hit ground running but it's not a ideal world...You have S4 and HTC 1 who own that marketplace...BlackBerry owns keyboard...that's why it's important to look things with a complete view and not box yourself to one quater of results.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 12:19 PM
  5. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    EVERYONE including BBRY expected better numbers.

    It was BAD... we have to accept that and move on, comparisons to other platforms back in the early days of smartphones becoming mainstream are not relevant to today market. The fact is that to attract developer we need a LOT more then 2.7M worldwide users - remember many developers are only looking at certain markets - so out of the 2.7M users... how may are in the UE? how many in North America? how many in the Middle East...

    You can see how breaking this number down further really shrinks what an individual developer like Netflix would be looking at, and why these low sales number are bad for building the future of the platform.

    We have to hope that we new device, new price points, lower prices on existing devices or promotions (Verizon dropped the Z10 by $100), and with updates to fix software problems that the next quarter will see better growth.
    Did BlackBerry told you in the call that results were Bad...they never said that...they compared against what they had set internally as targets...they were ok with it...
    It's the Media and endless army of analysts who had completely hyped the results ...and set the expectations way too high.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 12:23 PM
  6. sosumi11's Avatar
    How's it a bad number, on what basis...did management tell you that they will be shipping 5 M units? Are you comparing against Apple? Are you comparing against cheaper Nokia phones?
    Considering that Apple sold 1.3 million in its first full quarter, RIM sold 2.4 million BlackBerries during the same quarter, 2.7 million is a horrible number for 2013.

    So in reality, Apple sold 50% as many phones as BlackBerry did in the iPhone's first quarter!
    07-02-13 12:25 PM
  7. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Considering that when Apple sold 1.3 million in its first full quarter, RIM sold 2.4 million BlackBerries during the same quarter.

    So in reality, Apple sold 50% as many phones as BlackBerry did in the iPhone's first quarter!
    Yes it gives you some sense that it wasn't that bad considering thier main product is Q10 and q5...and 5 more products other than Z10 are going to come online

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 12:28 PM
  8. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Ideally yes you would like to hit ground running but it's not a ideal world...You have S4 and HTC 1 who own that marketplace...BlackBerry owns keyboard...that's why it's important to look things with a complete view and not box yourself to one quater of results.

    Posted via CB10
    Okay. So how many quarters are necessary? Be specific.
    07-02-13 12:30 PM
  9. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Okay. So how many quarters are necessary? Be specific.
    I think at least 2-3 to really factor in Q10 or Q5 and BES10 on services side...

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 12:35 PM
  10. jay64's Avatar
    Your confusing "shipped" versus consumer sales. 1 Mill of that (2.7) number was to a cell phone supplier and does not represent actual consumer sales. 60% of sales were legacy units and that is why wall street pounded, and continues to pound, the stock. The savior phones have not, thus far, been effective albeit the Q model is recently released in US. Conference call was weak on guidance after virtually no guidance at all for too long. I wish the mgt team was as good as the phones! Playbook fiasco did not help. The lack of a low end model for overseas was a big owiee and pricing here for new models was unrealistic, hence the markdowns since unveiling. Subscriber loss also got a lot of attention as it hits the bottom line. The evolution of BBM along the lines of Skype et al may yet be their saving grace, if they can get it to work in a timely fashion without bugs. So far, QNX cell phone OS has been much buggier then one would have anticipated given the lead time they had with QNX. It will be even harder to get developers onboard now. The future of BBM may be their Hail Mary. Let's hope lots of people go deep for the pass.
    lorax1284 likes this.
    07-02-13 12:44 PM
  11. Kendall Oei's Avatar
    My bet is that a large number of consumers were waiting for the Q10. Also, most corporate users are locked into using the old BBOS devices until their companies upgrade to BES10 (the corporate Blackberry server). An updated version of BES10 was just released last month that is much more compelling. As corporations move to the new version, my bet is that there will be a significant increase in BB10 sales.
    07-02-13 12:46 PM
  12. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    People just don't have patience.....One Quarter for them is game over....business does not move at the speed of stock market...

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 12:52 PM
  13. lorax1284's Avatar
    Haha I think his arrows were meant for the post above you
    ...which is why "reply with quote" is so important, and excerpting that which is quoted is helpful. I wish there was a high-school class for "discussion forum participation".

    I wish the mgt team was as good as the phones!
    Truer words were never spoken!
    07-02-13 01:11 PM
  14. hootyhoo's Avatar
    Comparing the first quarter of iPhone sales to Bb10 is a bad idea. The iPhone launched on one carrier in one country.
    kbz1960 likes this.
    07-02-13 01:13 PM
  15. howarmat's Avatar
    The thing i cant understand is that everyone is flip flopping on the numbers. Originally BB though that the z10 was going to outsell the the q10 by a ratio of 3:1 and now everyone is saying no its the Q10 that is the key device and it will sell much better over the z10. A company shouldnt be making these type of mistakes in their calculations.
    JeepBB, raysgrumpy, m1a1mg and 1 others like this.
    07-02-13 01:20 PM
  16. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    The thing i cant understand is that everyone is flip flopping on the numbers. Originally BB though that the z10 was going to outsell the the q10 by a ratio of 3:1 and now everyone is saying no its the Q10 that is the key device and it will sell much better over the z10. A company shouldnt be making these type of mistakes in their calculations.
    Did BlackBerry use 3:1 ratio in past?

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 01:28 PM
  17. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Comparing the first quarter of iPhone sales to Bb10 is a bad idea. The iPhone launched on one carrier in one country.
    I wonder why there it's such a need to compare BB10 to the original iPhone in every metric. It's counter-intuitive.
    kbz1960 and peter9477 like this.
    07-02-13 01:29 PM
  18. PFman's Avatar
    To me the q5 is critical and the UK pricing of that is just plain wrong.

    This week I got my wife an S3 mini for 20 on a contract at 10 a month (100 mibs/200 txts/500mb). Until the q5 gets closer to these levels it has no chance and although I want the keyboard I think I maybe a dinosaur as no one else I know does.

    People just don't have the spare cash in times of austerity.

    Sent from my GT-I9300 using Tapatalk 2
    07-02-13 01:33 PM
  19. undone's Avatar
    RIM's attempts at all touch devices in the past where laughed at. I liked my Storm2, but whatever. So enters BB with a fresh full touch device, to a market dominated by multiple Android devices and the iOS field. There was no chance in h3ll for them to disrupt that stranglehold for so many reasons its insane. Speaking USA, no Z10 on Sprint and other carrier support all over the map (good, bad, indifferent). Not exactly a warm welcome. Fast forward, again USA, slow roll out of patches (Or better not at all). The usage of 'carrier testing' is comical in a tragic way, and BB isn't the only one that takes this on the chin. So the negative feedback happens. I think people are less married to eco systems then the market wants you to believe. If you have a good experience and it keeps on going, you stay within your selected silo, if not, your looking out for a new place to go. And people are verbal when its bad. I think that is where the different Global regions will have different takes on the devices. Support throughout the whole life cycle is critical. US blows in this regard, that's why I believe iOS has been so 'successful', Apple has handled most of it.

    What is true for BB is they are continuing to release new devices and managing a strong support/upgrade cycle for there OS. Sub'ed users upgrade when they are in there two year window (or three in Canada, ouch) as well as business's that aren't BYOD in the never/when its broken cycle. Really the success or lack there of for BB10 can't be measure in such a short interval, though it is amazing how people manage to pick a side already. Time is there friend and enemy.
    dusdal and NYC10065 like this.
    07-02-13 01:33 PM
  20. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    RIM's attempts at all touch devices in the past where laughed at. I liked my Storm2, but whatever. So enters BB with a fresh full touch device, to a market dominated by multiple Android devices and the iOS field. There was no chance in h3ll for them to disrupt that stranglehold for so many reasons its insane. Speaking USA, no Z10 on Sprint and other carrier support all over the map (good, bad, indifferent). Not exactly a warm welcome. Fast forward, again USA, slow roll out of patches (Or better not at all). The usage of 'carrier testing' is comical in a tragic way, and BB isn't the only one that takes this on the chin. So the negative feedback happens. I think people are less married to eco systems then the market wants you to believe. If you have a good experience and it keeps on going, you stay within your selected silo, if not, your looking out for a new place to go. And people are verbal when its bad. I think that is where the different Global regions will have different takes on the devices. Support throughout the whole life cycle is critical. US blows in this regard, that's why I believe iOS has been so 'successful', Apple has handled most of it.

    What is true for BB is they are continuing to release new devices and managing a strong support/upgrade cycle for there OS. Sub'ed users upgrade when they are in there two year window (or three in Canada, ouch) as well as business's that aren't BYOD in the never/when its broken cycle. Really the success or lack there of for BB10 can't be measure in such a short interval, though it is amazing how people manage to pick a side already. Time is there friend and enemy.
    Good points

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 01:37 PM
  21. howarmat's Avatar
    Did BlackBerry use 3:1 ratio in past?

    Posted via CB10
    http://forums.crackberry.com/general...phones-758844/
    07-02-13 01:40 PM
  22. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Well you are right my friend...he did say that first data points point to 3:1 back in December...But BlackBerry as it stands today is keyboard...Also to consider is that we now have q5 going in as well.. It's very likely all of them combined would deliver a decent number going forward..especially now that expectations are set so low.

    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 01:52 PM
  23. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Ah. So if you believe the Q10 will be more successful than the Z10 you either have to believe that TH was lying or that he doesn't know any better. Neither is pleasant.
    JeepBB and peter9477 like this.
    07-02-13 01:54 PM
  24. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    2.7M is not that good, I mean +0,8M (from prev Q) is not fast enough ... I'm afraid.

    I can't refrain asking myself "If they have such amount of available cash, why don't they spend it to push the products more ?"
    Then I count what a global (new BB mantra for marketing - which is good IMHO) substantial and noticeable promotion campaign costs (hint : MSFT spent $1 billion for W8P launch promotion).
    Then I think "they can afford once for sure, maybe two and then they have to wait the cash back".
    Conclusion : they have to be patient for the range to be at least covered with Q10, Q5 (and Z10 : done) worldwide, especially in U.S for Q10.

    Heins explained there will be a massive investment to promote BB10 in [fiscal] 2014.
    But the timing ...
    Ready ? We are, the range is set.
    Set ? wowowowowo, just a minute, U.S is late, carrier support is not as good as expected there [this is my biggest grief]
    GO ? ahum ... do we bet on school back or Christmas sales ? Both ? [I have no answer (hint : negative EPS next quarter ?) ]

    But we'll see it happen; this would cut 30% of current BBRY threads about marketing, P.R, Heins tone or whatever promotion related's. And then, the sales will rise, significantly. And then, the bears will say "they've burned their cash". Rinse and repeat. For a while. Stay calm.

    JMHO
    peter9477 likes this.
    07-02-13 01:56 PM
  25. Chicago777Guy's Avatar
    Ah. So if you believe the Q10 will be more successful than the Z10 you either have to believe that TH was lying or that he doesn't know any better. Neither is pleasant.
    I don't disagree to your comment....however most BlackBerry want keyboards ....And if they don't Q10 or Q5 than its all about Patents and other assets on the balance sheet bottom line it's wait and watch..its round one


    Posted via CB10
    07-02-13 02:01 PM
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