1. mjbesen310's Avatar
    wow, this geek guy is WAY wrong.... this thread should be locked down for false information
    12-10-09 10:36 AM
  2. Joel S.'s Avatar
    Smart end.. 12volt car charger is DC volts which is converted to AC volts which steps down the voltage to about 4 in the process. U cant charge a phone with dc voltage which a car battery gives out. Also the 12 volts is th einput not the input

    next time do your research before your you open your mouth boy
    You really don't know what you're talking about.

    Pretty much ALL battery powered devices, phones, laptops (and even desktops), cars, wireless mice, MP3 players, etc, run on DC voltage. Household current is AC. The blister on a phone charger that you plug into the wall is an AC to DC converter. The phone will NOT accept an AC current.

    You should probably heed your own advice before opening your mouth.
    12-10-09 10:58 AM
  3. Joel S.'s Avatar
    How ironic is it that someone with the name "cpugeek4u" can be so ignorant about basic electronics.
    12-10-09 11:01 AM
  4. howarmat's Avatar
    How ironic is it that someone with the name "cpugeek4u" can be so ignorant about basic electronics.
    i wondered the same thing long ago....i sometimes wonder how he can even turn one on!
    12-10-09 11:07 AM
  5. PacketRat's Avatar
    *lock this thread*

    Charging behavior of the BlackBerry smartphone from RIM

    View Document


    Environment

    * BlackBerry smartphones



    Overview

    Charging conditions:

    * When the BlackBerry smartphone is powered on and plugged into a charging source you will see a lightning bolt over the battery indicator. If the battery has already been charged to 100% this indicator will be removed.
    * When the BlackBerry smartphone is powered off and plugged into a charging source the light-emitting diode (LED) will slowly flash yellow when charging.
    * When it has completed charging the LED will show solid green until unplugged or powered on.

    Charge Times:

    Over all charge times will depend on the BlackBerry smartphone being charged and what power source is charging it.

    * When the BlackBerry smartphone is plugged into a computer without the USB drivers installed it will charge at one fifth the rate of when the drivers are installed.
    * When plugged into an approved BlackBerry AC wall charger or car charger you can receive the same or higher charge rate then when using a computer with the USB drivers installed.

    Discharge conditions:

    * As the battery discharges the BlackBerry smartphone will issue an audible beep and a yellow LED will begin flashing when a low battery condition is reached. Further battery discharge will cause an audible beep and an informational message to be displayed indicating that there is not enough battery capacity to operate the radios and the radios will automatically turn off. Still further battery discharge will cause another informational message to be displayed indicating that the BlackBerry smartphone will turn off due to insufficient battery capacity and the BlackBerry smartphone will turn itself off automatically.
    * If the BlackBerry smartphone has turned itself off due to insufficient battery capacity connecting a charger will cause a yellow LED to slowly flash. This is normal HANDHELD OFF charging behavior. The BlackBerry smartphone will go back to the ON state if it is manually turned on by pressing the ON button.
    * If the BlackBerry smartphone has turned itself off due to insufficient battery capacity and remains in this state without being charged for a long time it will enter a deep sleep condition. Connecting a charger to the BlackBerry smartphone at this point will cause the red LED to turn on for up to 2 minutes, after which the red LED will turn off and the Battery Charging icon will be displayed.
    * If a dead battery is inserted in the BlackBerry smartphone the red LED may turn on for up to 2 minutes. Connecting a charger to the BlackBerry smartphone at this point will cause the red LED to turn on for up to 2 minutes, after which the red LED will turn off and a Battery Charging icon will be displayed.
    * If a deeply discharged battery is inserted into the BlackBerry smartphone there will be no visual indicators of functionality. Connecting a charger to the BlackBerry smartphone at this point will cause the red LED to turn on for up to 2 minutes, after which the red LED will turn off and a Battery Charging icon will be displayed.
    * Make sure the charger is a BlackBerry wall charger or a computer. Using a bus-powered USB hub may cause the red LED to remain on indefinitely and the computer operating system may show a pop-up window with the following message: USB Hub Power Exceeded. In this case, the BlackBerry smartphone will not charge.
    12-10-09 11:40 AM
  6. Rockdog97's Avatar
    ^^^

    well then.. that should be the end of this discussion for sure..

    i do want to add that I had a USB charger from another phone and it would NOT charge my BB... I'd plug it in and the little charging indicator would not come on... Perhaps this USB charger just didn't have enough volts to charge my phone? I don't have the specs on the wall charger to post here, so I'm not sure what the deal was...maybe just a bad wall charger.. who knows.
    12-10-09 12:02 PM
  7. Cyrilmak's Avatar
    I have a feeling the OP won't be coming back to this thread....
    12-10-09 01:35 PM
  8. gtstang462002's Avatar
    I have a feeling the OP won't be coming back to this thread....
    Sure he/she will. He/she like to make himself/herself look like an ID10T.
    12-10-09 01:41 PM
  9. theanswer3's Avatar
    Smart end.. 12volt car charger is DC volts which is converted to AC volts which steps down the voltage to about 4 in the process. U cant charge a phone with dc voltage which a car battery gives out. Also the 12 volts is th einput not the input

    next time do your research before your you open your mouth boy
    wow are you serious. the battery does not power the car once it is on. The alternator does, and that does use ac that is regulated to 12v dc. Just so you are aware as well, most devices in a house that use ac also have a regulator or converter internally that switches the current to dc. Most household items can be easily converted to run on dc by removing the ac to dc converter. How do I know well I am an electrical engineer I have converted a PS3 and an Xbox to DC once I found the ac component in the circuit and removed it using a schematic. I have done it with other items as well. what research did you do.
    Last edited by theanswer3; 12-10-09 at 01:53 PM.
    12-10-09 01:49 PM
  10. Joel S.'s Avatar
    wow are you serious. the battery does not power the car once it is on. The alternator does, and that does use ac that is regulated to 12v dc. Just so you are aware as well, most devices in a house that use ac also have a regulator or converter internally that switches the current to dc. Most household items can be easily converted to run on dc by removing the ac to dc converter. How do I know well I am an electrical engineer I have converted a PS3 and an Xbox to DC once I found the ac component in the circuit and removed it using a schematic. I have done it with other items as well. what research did you do.
    Nitpicking... Cars do not run off the alternator, they always run off the battery. The alternator keeps the battery charged while the car is running, so yes, it seems like they use the alternator for power when on, but they do not. This is a VERY common misconception, and I've even heard techs get it wrong.

    I'm curious about the Xbox/PS3 DC conversion. I know for a 100% fact that both devices are DC already, so how did you convert them? If you are talking about feeding them DC from a special source directly, all you had to do was bypass the internal power supply, or in the case of the 360, not use the huge brick on the power cord.
    12-10-09 02:27 PM
  11. Mr Bigs's Avatar
    Between voltage and amps volts is more critical. Amps is what the charger can put out if requested.
    12-10-09 02:37 PM
  12. fitch220's Avatar
    Nitpicking... Cars do not run off the alternator, they always run off the battery. The alternator keeps the battery charged while the car is running, so yes, it seems like they use the alternator for power when on, but they do not. This is a VERY common misconception, and I've even heard techs get it wrong.

    I'm curious about the Xbox/PS3 DC conversion. I know for a 100% fact that both devices are DC already, so how did you convert them? If you are talking about feeding them DC from a special source directly, all you had to do was bypass the internal power supply, or in the case of the 360, not use the huge brick on the power cord.
    May want to check your facts there. Anything to prove that an alternative does not run a cars electrical system and charge the battery? I will agree that an alternator does not constantly produce electricity. It cycles on and off as demand goes up and down. The battery only maintains system voltage, while the alternator covers the rest.
    12-10-09 02:55 PM
  13. ridesno159's Avatar
    May want to check your facts there. Anything to prove that an alternative does not run a cars electrical system and charge the battery? I will agree that an alternator does not constantly produce electricity. It cycles on and off as demand goes up and down. The battery only maintains system voltage, while the alternator covers the rest.
    May want to check your facts. Joel was correct. An alternator does NOT cycle on and off, it's always charging and producing electricity. It's the voltage regulator that determines if the battery needs to recieve those amps. The alternator (and regulator) maintains system voltage while the battery provides the power to run the car (covers the rest).

    You can think of it like a phone charger (getting back on topic to this forum). You have your phone plugged in, it charges the battery up. It will stop charging when it gets full (the lightning bolt goes away). You leave it plugged in, but do a bunch of browsing and talking on the phone. That %100 charge will drop to %95, and the charger will turn back on. The regulator will only give the battery power when it needs it, but the charger will always be producing power.
    Last edited by ridesno159; 12-10-09 at 03:22 PM.
    12-10-09 03:20 PM
  14. Joel S.'s Avatar
    May want to check your facts there. Anything to prove that an alternative does not run a cars electrical system and charge the battery? I will agree that an alternator does not constantly produce electricity. It cycles on and off as demand goes up and down. The battery only maintains system voltage, while the alternator covers the rest.
    I know my facts. Here's your proof.

    1) Modern cars and trucks are DC, period. There is zero debate to this, anyone who tries to say otherwise is wrong, period.

    2) DC devices require some sort of negative source, a ground if you will.

    3) Cars ground to the battery. You cannot debate this either, you cannot ground to the alternator.

    4) Although many people call the positive line "hot", electrons flow from the negative pole. This means the starting/ending point for the power the car actually uses is the battery.

    Side note: Alternators produce varying amperage depending on engine RPMs. Car components do not do well with widely varying amperage, so power goes to the battery to keep it topped off, where the battery can provide a nice clean stable consistent amount of amperage.
    12-10-09 03:21 PM
  15. Joel S.'s Avatar
    May want to check your facts. Joel was correct. An alternator does NOT cycle on and off, it's always charging and producing electricity. It's the voltage regulator that determines if the battery needs to recieve those amps. The alternator (and regulator) maintains system voltage while the battery provides the power to run the car (covers the rest).

    You can think of it like a phone charger (getting back on topic to this forum). You have your phone plugged in, it charges the battery up. It will stop charging when it gets full (the lightning bolt goes away). You leave it plugged in, but do a bunch of browsing and talking on the phone. That %100 charge will drop to %95, and the charger will turn back on. The regulator will only give the battery power when it needs it, but the charger will always be producing power.
    Thank you.
    12-10-09 03:26 PM
  16. fitch220's Avatar
    An alternator does NOT cycle on and off, it's always charging and producing electricity. It's the voltage regulator that determines if the battery needs to recieve those amps. The alternator (and regulator) maintains system voltage while the battery provides the power to run the car (covers the rest).
    Seems like I was taught/thought wrong then. I viewed the Alternator and battery in parallel. The battery would start, then the alternator would power the car while running along with producing excess in order to charge the battery.

    Does the voltage regulator work like a solar charge controller in that it decides where to send power based upon the demand? During sunlight, panels produce and two things happen:
    1. Production > Demand = Battery being Charged
    2. Production < Demand = Battery drained in order to supplement solar power
    12-10-09 03:40 PM
  17. cpugeek4u's Avatar
    May want to check your facts there. Anything to prove that an alternative does not run a cars electrical system and charge the battery? I will agree that an alternator does not constantly produce electricity. It cycles on and off as demand goes up and down. The battery only maintains system voltage, while the alternator covers the rest.
    That is correct.....


    Your battery is there for starting purposes only- once you start the car, the alternator/generator takes over, and runs the cars electrical system (and recharges the battery)- if you start your car and then disconnect the battery, if your alternator is good, the car will keep running. bad alternator and the car will die. note that if your alternator is bad, your car can run off the battery for a while till the battery dies. sure sign of bad alternator = constantly dead battery.



    WikiAnswers - How do you know if the alternator is bad
    12-10-09 03:40 PM
  18. Joel S.'s Avatar
    Seems like I was taught/thought wrong then. I viewed the Alternator and battery in parallel. The battery would start, then the alternator would power the car while running along with producing excess in order to charge the battery.

    Does the voltage regulator work like a solar charge controller in that it decides where to send power based upon the demand? During sunlight, panels produce and two things happen:
    1. Production > Demand = Battery being Charged
    2. Production < Demand = Battery drained in order to supplement solar power
    It is easily one of the most widely spread myths about cars. The analogy using a phone or laptop charger is perfect. Those devices always run off the battery, even when plugged in.

    That is correct.....


    Your battery is there for starting purposes only- once you start the car, the alternator/generator takes over, and runs the cars electrical system (and recharges the battery)- if you start your car and then disconnect the battery, if your alternator is good, the car will keep running. bad alternator and the car will die. note that if your alternator is bad, your car can run off the battery for a while till the battery dies. sure sign of bad alternator = constantly dead battery.



    WikiAnswers - How do you know if the alternator is bad
    Haven't you been wrong enough in this thread? You're WRONG, flat out. And in the most awesome fit of irony, your link further enforces the fact you have no effing clue what you're talking about.

    Of course the car will keep running with the positive unplugged from the battery and the engine running. The alternator cable is bolted to the lead that connects to the POSITIVE terminal, so with the positive lead yanked off the battery, the Voltage regulator sees a battery with 0 charge, and cracks open the flow, which goes to the positive lead, and in turn the rest of the car (since the battery is disconnected.) The NEGATIVE terminal still MUST be connected, because it supplies the electrons which are necessary to power the car.
    12-10-09 03:56 PM
  19. ridesno159's Avatar
    That is correct.....


    Your battery is there for starting purposes only- once you start the car, the alternator/generator takes over, and runs the cars electrical system (and recharges the battery)- if you start your car and then disconnect the battery, if your alternator is good, the car will keep running. bad alternator and the car will die. note that if your alternator is bad, your car can run off the battery for a while till the battery dies. sure sign of bad alternator = constantly dead battery.



    WikiAnswers - How do you know if the alternator is bad
    While your right about having a bad alternator, you're wrong saying that the car runs off the alternator.

    If you disconnect your battery while the car is running, it will stay running, that is true.

    BUT, lets say you have a big off-road truck with a big music system in it. While your battery is disconnected and running, turn all your bright lights (even your light bar), crank up the music with those big subwoofers while you winch yourself out of that big mud hole. See how long that alternator keeps that truck running.
    12-10-09 04:03 PM
  20. adambigge's Avatar
    I am amazed at the amount of misinformation in this thread. For anybody curious, cpugeek is way off base. Listen to the electrical engineers and electronic engineers (which I happen to be ) that are refuting his claims. He does not know what he is talking about. Voltage in car chargers is regulated with zener diodes as has been stated earlier. Think of it as a diode that is designed to only allow a certain level of voltage. They operate just outside of their thermal breakdown range. Too much current and they simply burn up. There is no conversion of DC to AC. USB protocols are set at certain voltage and current ranges. As long as you are using a properly made usb charger it will not produce enough current to damage your phone. All electronic devices run on DC. Even the ones you plug into the wall. The AC is just converted via an internal rectifier bridge and then regulated to the proper voltage for the device. The only reason we have AC current in our homes is because it is more efficient to transmit electricity as AC rather than DC. Geek might mean well but he just doesn't understand what he is talking about.

    Posted from my CrackBerry at wapforums.crackberry.com
    12-10-09 04:03 PM
  21. tech_head's Avatar
    Of course the car will keep running with the positive unplugged from the battery and the engine running. The alternator cable is bolted to the lead that connects to the POSITIVE terminal, so with the positive lead yanked off the battery, the Voltage regulator sees a battery with 0 charge, and cracks open the flow, which goes to the positive lead, and in turn the rest of the car (since the battery is disconnected.) The NEGATIVE terminal still MUST be connected, because it supplies the electrons which are necessary to power the car.
    Huh???
    Removing one terminal of the battery *IS* equivalent of removing both.
    Remove the negative or positive an you have taken the battery out of the circuit. No electron flow in or out of the battery.

    Don't try that at home, you will ruin the alternator on most modern cars.
    The battery is needed in the circuit.
    12-10-09 04:03 PM
  22. Joel S.'s Avatar
    Huh???
    Removing one terminal of the battery *IS* equivalent of removing both.
    Remove the negative or positive an you have taken the battery out of the circuit. No electron flow in or out of the battery.

    Don't try that at home, you will ruin the alternator on most modern cars.
    The battery is needed in the circuit.
    Right, I've done more than enough work on my car to know that if you yank the negative terminal, you essentially disconnect the battery. I think you're misunderstanding.

    The alternator is connected to the positive pole in the car. It's usually bolted to the terminal that connects to the pole. Because of this, when you pull it off of the battery when the car is running the regulator will open the flow of juice to the positive terminal. Because there's still flow to the positive terminal, there's still somewhere for the electrons from the negative pole to go, so the car will stay running.
    12-10-09 04:21 PM
  23. CharlesH's Avatar
    (Back to cell phone batteries)

    For safety reasons, LiIon batteries have circuitry in the battery itself that stops charging when the battery is full. Even the trickle charging that is common with nickel-based batteries would cause the outgassing of explosive gasses from a LiIon battery, so they don't depend on a properly operating charger to cut off the charging when the battery is full. This circuitry also prevents the battery from discharging below a certain level.
    Last edited by CharlesH; 12-10-09 at 04:35 PM.
    12-10-09 04:23 PM
  24. AaronWasHere's Avatar
    LOL @ this thread... Way to go CPU, you've made yourself look even more foolish
    12-10-09 04:37 PM
  25. Innerchild's Avatar
    I use the AC-to-USB charger that came with my Kindle from Amazon. Works great as an alternate charger for my Storm 1.
    12-10-09 05:16 PM
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