04-30-14 10:34 PM
49 12
tools
  1. tomh235's Avatar
    Surely over writing your flash memory in its entirety several times is not good for the life of said flash memory? Great for rendering data un-recoverable but from what I can see it will offer no advantages to a regular wipe. Unless there is some kind of secret sauce going on behind the scenes there is no technical difference but the placebo effect is a powerful thing!

    I remember from my android days a slew of supposed performance boosting apps and scripts that did absolutely jack in real life! I remember when it was exposed that various build.prop tweaks many users swore by actually didn't effect anything at the operating system level. All that was happening was people were editing a text file of values that looked like they would improve performance but the actual code that read these values had long been removed from android or never existed in the first place.

    The only way to properly prove a difference is benchmarking. A perceived performance increase is too easy to be fooled by other factors, a factory restore or new OS is going to make a huge difference to the phone anyway. But I guess if it works for you I'm not gonna stop ya!

    Posted from my Z or Q!
    04-30-14 05:30 PM
  2. sayf777's Avatar
    I just use the cfp.exe with the nuke -a command, saves whole lot of time. From a technical standpoint I can only assume that BlackBerry knew what they were doing when they included wipe And nuke in the cfp? Maybe one wipe and a nuke could possibly be all that's needed? But since the creators of SIC tested the number of wipes then we'll have it to leave the explanation as "in our experience. "

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-14 05:40 PM
  3. tomh235's Avatar
    Anyone know the difference between wipe and nuke?

    I would imagine that nuke works at the bit level and wipe works at the partition level. Does anyone know how this compares to how an autoloader works? Is an autoloader essentially dd'ing an entire os image onto the device flash or does an autoloader keep the existing partition structure and copy each part of the OS as a file?

    Posted from my Z or Q!
    04-30-14 05:46 PM
  4. torcheredsole56's Avatar
    All I can add is internally there was a nuke and wipe batch file that was to be used one time when doing official beta testing prior to loading a new release. That's all that was required. There were no instructions to perform it more than once. I have no facts regarding doing this multiple times one way or another, or whether or not that procedure changed for BB10 OS. Autoloaders were not used at the time. A batch file was used to perform essentially the same functions of what an autoloader did.

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-14 07:41 PM
  5. HotFix's Avatar
    I would like to know the *why* behind the process as well as I am not keen on wiping my device's flash memory multiple times unnecessarily.

    This is not a judgment post on SIC in any way good or bad. Just a curiosity that should hopefully be factually explainable. I therefore fully agree with the OP.

    And no... "it's amazing" isn't a fact that answers the *why* it is needed, it's just an opinion of the outcome.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    mrjmc99 likes this.
    04-30-14 07:42 PM
  6. anon721037's Avatar
    So the next time some one tells me to buy or use a product , I'm going with don't just tell me it works, and does a great job, I want technical info and reasons why it's better, cause the fact that it works and runs good doesn't mean anything,


    Posted on CB10
    Uzi, Sator and cloudberry like this.
    04-30-14 07:47 PM
  7. Uzi's Avatar
    Yes I am.
    Pls don't write "it works" but explain in *technical terms* what problem it solves and why it works.

    Fair enough for you? :-)



    No - not fair enough.
    I do not try woodo, astrology or numerology either. OK?

    Back to the facts:
    The tool is basically a wrapper for the cfp.exe tool provided by BlackBerry. The author has at NO point explained why (from a technical point of view) there should be any advantage of wiping the flash memory (and even MULTIPLE TIMES???). Several of the very trusted people in here has also questioned it in the origianal thread and the only answer was "in our experience...".

    The same can be said about woodo in amongst some people.. (but feel free to try that out too if you believe it works).

    Do you also format your harddrive 5 times before installing you new OS?

    Let's focus on some facts: When you run an autoloader, a new, clean Unix-like filesystem is written to flash memory (hd0 or hd1 as far as I understand). Running the OS from the new filesystem means there are NO references to "old" data (even if they are still present in the flash). When the filesystem allocates new space, it simply overwrites the next non-referenced ("unused") block and it does not matter what was written before.

    I believe the "improved speed" is imagination/placebo. The device runs at the exact same speed and the flash memory is no less fragmented so there are not technical reason for any speed improvement.

    People can do whatever they like, but they should (mostly) do so based on facts. IMHO SIC only takes away some minutes of your life, and you will never get them back :-)

    Why SIC?-_d-ga-bohong.jpg

    Posted via CB10
    Sator and anon721037 like this.
    04-30-14 07:52 PM
  8. HotFix's Avatar
    So the next time some one tells me to buy or use a product , I'm going with don't just tell me it works, and does a great job, I want technical info and reasons why it's better, cause the fact that it works and runs good doesn't mean anything,


    Posted on CB10
    Why are you getting bent out of shape with someone wanting to know they why behind something?

    I'm an IT engineer and its my nature to want to know the why behind something, and not just accept that it works. As I suspect is the case with the OP. Sorry this irritates you and others to the point where you have to make snarky comments.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    moyah8 likes this.
    04-30-14 08:12 PM
  9. anon721037's Avatar
    Why are you getting bent out of shape with someone wanting to know they why behind something?

    I'm an IT engineer and its my nature to want to know the why behind something, and not just accept that it works. As I suspect is the case with the OP. Sorry this irritates you and others to the point where you have to make snarky comments.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    I'm not getting bent, oh and your running the newest leak , gee I wonder why, because everyone said it was great and it's new, oh sorry I forgot you waited and got all the technical info before you loaded it,

    Now I'm getting bent.




    Posted on CB10
    Uzi, Sator, Djlatino and 1 others like this.
    04-30-14 08:16 PM
  10. HotFix's Avatar
    I'm not getting bent, oh and your running the newest leak , gee I wonder why, because everyone said it was great and it's new, oh sorry I forgot you waited and got all the technical info before you loaded it,

    Now I'm getting bent.

    Posted on CB10
    Sorry you are having such a hard time with people asking why.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    04-30-14 08:21 PM
  11. anon721037's Avatar
    Sorry you are having such a hard with people asking why.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    Thank you


    Posted on CB10
    04-30-14 08:22 PM
  12. clie610's Avatar
    We have developed SIC and 'SHARE' it in this forum. There's no requirement here to explain how and why something works because the choice is yours do or don't use it, plain and simple.

    Agree with what OP's saying: People can do whatever they like, but they should (mostly) do so based on facts. IMHO SIC only takes away some minutes of your life, and you will never get them back :-)

    Let's see how the minutes taken away from your life used in affecting your device, everybody who uses or don't use SIC can post screen shot of their battery device monitor. For this start we can ignore how users use their device as well as quality of their network etc.

    Later perhaps we can start categorizing the results based on user's usage.

    I think it is better to take away time in our life to find out something meaningful for us and better than that, for others.
    Uzi, anon721037 and Sator like this.
    04-30-14 08:56 PM
  13. TTBGF's Avatar
    Lol, this thread is escalating quickly

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-14 09:01 PM
  14. Djlatino's Avatar
    All the man is asking for is what function SIC performs but if you guys won't do such a thing for whatever reason, it takes me a few seconds to decompile the sucker up.
    meltbox360 likes this.
    04-30-14 09:05 PM
  15. HotFix's Avatar
    We have developed SIC and 'SHARE' it in this forum. There's no requirement here to explain how and why something works because the choice is yours do or don't use it, plain and simple.

    Agree with what OP's saying: People can do whatever they like, but they should (mostly) do so based on facts. IMHO SIC only takes away some minutes of your life, and you will never get them back :-)

    Let's see how the minutes taken away from your life used in affecting your device, everybody who uses or don't use SIC can post screen shot of their battery device monitor. For this start we can ignore how users use their device as well as quality of their network etc.

    Later perhaps we can start categorizing the results based on user's usage.

    I think it is better to take away time in our life to find out something meaningful for us and better than that, for others.
    No one is saying you are "required" to answer the question.

    Since it appears you are the one or one of the ones that developed SIC, you chose to have it do what it does for a reason. Can you not please share the reasoning behind why it was developed to work the way it does?

    I.E. "It wipes your device multiple times because...".

    I hope asking the reasoning that drove the design of the tool is not somehow offending you because it isn't meant to be.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    04-30-14 09:05 PM
  16. clie610's Avatar
    All the man is asking for is what function SIC performs but if you guys won't do such a thing for whatever reason, it takes me a few seconds to decompile the sucker up.
    No one is saying you are "required" to answer the question.

    Since it appears you are the one or one of the ones that developed SIC, you chose to have it do what it does for a reason. Can you not please share the reasoning behind why it was developed to work the way it does?

    I.E. "It wipes your device multiple times because...".

    I hope asking the reasoning that drove the design of the tool is not somehow offending you because it isn't meant to be.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    It has been asked and discussed in its thread http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...09/index2.html
    anon721037, deezy87, Sator and 1 others like this.
    04-30-14 09:13 PM
  17. anon721037's Avatar
    All the man is asking for is what function SIC performs but if you guys won't do such a thing for whatever reason, it takes me a few seconds to decompile the sucker up.
    The original thread has been going for a while, so if a person wanted all the technical info, I would think hey I go to that thread where a bunch of topics have been discussed instead of opening up another thread asking for specifics,


    Posted on CB10
    04-30-14 09:16 PM
  18. Djlatino's Avatar
    The original thread has been going for a while, so if a person wanted all the technical info, I would think hey I go to that thread where a bunch of topics have been discussed instead of opening up another thread asking for specifics,


    Posted on CB10
    It looks like placebo to me where a buncha joyride overrated wipes occur, cleaning your previous OSs and some other **** like that.

    Honestly, I'm gunna go with the dev on this one where the whole 21 questions for what it does isn't needed and if you like it, use it, if not, don't.
    anon721037 likes this.
    04-30-14 09:25 PM
  19. Uzi's Avatar
    It looks like placebo to me where a buncha joyride overrated wipes occur, cleaning your previous OSs and some other **** like that.

    Honestly, I'm gunna go with the dev on this one where the whole 21 questions for what it does isn't needed and if you like it, use it, if not, don't.
    indeed plain and simple

    Posted via CB10
    04-30-14 09:28 PM
  20. HotFix's Avatar
    It has been asked and discussed in its thread http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...09/index2.html
    I wasn't aware you guys had gone through the discussion points on the other thread. My apologies for not knowing that and posting my "me too" posts here.

    I just read through the first couple of pages of the thread you linked and from what I can tell the OP's original question of:
    Can anyone provide a technical description of what you would gain by using it? Pls don't write "it works" but explain in *technical terms* what problem it solves and why it works.
    The answer you gave on the other thread is essentially you can't provide a technical reason. It's just your experience that the extra 5 wipes makes things better.

    Again I didn't read through all of the other thread, but to me the process of extra wipes with nothing more than anecdotal evidence isn't worth it to me personally.

    I do applaud you for continuing to the community a tool that packages up the process some might want to use but not know how, and at the same time adding your own personal "best practice" to it. I wish we had more people contributing in this fashion versus just consuming.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    anon721037, moyah8 and Uzi like this.
    04-30-14 09:37 PM
  21. anon721037's Avatar
    It looks like placebo to me where a buncha joyride overrated wipes occur, cleaning your previous OSs and some other **** like that.

    Honestly, I'm gunna go with the dev on this one where the whole 21 questions for what it does isn't needed and if you like it, use it, if not, don't.
    Thank you for your decision, my decision was to try it just like I try new leaks, new radios , and it did make a difference on my Z30 but it was probably all the leaks that I have done and back ups ( which I don't do anymore) so I found that using SIC it really helped my device, smoother than what it was new, so I do agree with you partially as if there is no problem with your device why do it, but if your having problems it may help by do it,

    Sorry for rambling.


    Posted on CB10
    clie610 and Sator like this.
    04-30-14 09:40 PM
  22. clie610's Avatar
    I wasn't aware you guys had gone through the discussion points on the other thread. My apologies for not knowing that and posting my "me too" posts here.

    I just read through the first couple of pages of the thread you linked and from what I can tell the OP's original question of:

    The answer you gave on the other thread is essentially you can't provide a technical reason. It's just your experience that the extra 5 wipes makes things better.

    Again I didn't read through all of the other thread, but to me the process of extra wipes with nothing more than anecdotal evidence isn't worth it to me personally.

    I do applaud you for continuing to the community a tool that packages up the process some might want to use but not know how, and at the same time adding your own personal "best practice" to it. I wish we had more people contributing in this fashion versus just consuming.

    Posted via CB10 via Z30STA100-5/10.2.1.2947
    No problem, and that's the essence of this share, it is free to everyone to use or not using it.

    Same like me cannot be judgmental to you if you find it not worth it to use it because it is your device and you are the one who using it, not others nor me.
    anon721037 and Sator like this.
    04-30-14 09:47 PM
  23. clie610's Avatar
    Why SIC?-img_20140501_101007.png

    This is my Q10, currently using 10.2.1.2674, 8 BBM groups, 2 whatsapp groups, 6 email accounts, phone call usage around 3 hours for this monitor duration, using SIC Wipe n Load
    Uzi likes this.
    04-30-14 10:21 PM
  24. zocster's Avatar
    I think this thread has run it's course...

    There are two styles of SIC,

    One is http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...0-only-924580/ which is the one I prefer.

    http://forums.crackberry.com/bb10-le...loader-909209/ here is the other one, ... so I suggest, you want to ask questions, go ahead and ask it there ...

    Thread is now closed.
    04-30-14 10:34 PM
49 12

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