09-28-14 11:44 PM
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  1. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    Good points. Thinking about it, Samsung is taking their own path (sans Google) with KNOX in the enterprise, and cheesed off Google in the past with their multi-window implementation... By partnering with BlackBerry, Google gets an advantage over Samsung in that regard possibly? Not to mention that BlackBerry will be using Google Services if they come to an agreement, no doubt.
    I honestly can't see a downside for Google here. They give their seal of approval to a platform that provides a secure shell of sorts to Android. I think the market would be extremely receptive to this.

    What does this mean to the average consumer? We'll have to see. I don't have any illusions of Samsung fans cross-shopping Z30s, but I do think there are potential customers out there who would love to migrate to BlackBerry but because "x" app isn't available they have to cross it off the list.

    I find myself wondering if there's maybe more behind it, though...
    Superfly_FR and bigbadben10 like this.
    12-13-13 04:20 PM
  2. Gnomesane's Avatar
    I honestly can't see a downside for Google here. They give their seal of approval to a platform that provides a secure shell of sorts to Android. I think the market would be extremely receptive to this.

    What does this mean to the average consumer? We'll have to see. I don't have any illusions of Samsung fans cross-shopping Z30s, but I do think there are potential customers out there who would love to migrate to BlackBerry but because "x" app isn't available they have to cross it off the list.

    I find myself wondering if there's maybe more behind it, though...
    I don't see the downside either, but admittedly I'm looking at it from a layman's point of view, I'm by no means well read on the subject, just find the discussion interesting. Google gets their proprietary APIs on yet another platform, their foot further in the door in enterprise, and more support for their ecosystem, etc. If BlackBerry fails further down the road, they won't look like the bad guy, quite the opposite; However, if BlackBerry manages to revive itself, Google is tied to them at the hip (for whatever duration/terms are negotiated). And like Microsoft supporting an ailing Apple in the 90's, it doesn't hurt Google from an anti-trust perspective to be seen opening themselves up to another competitor...

    BlackBerry wins in that they get the official Google sanction in the marketplace for apps (something Microsoft lacks), and if marketed properly, should help to drive hardware sales and help the company make a turnaround and reinvent itself.

    Which in turn doesn't hurt Google, but might bite into Microsoft and Samsung's forays into the enterprise...

    It's like Game of Thrones in mobile! Anyway, my read on it. EDIT: Game of Phones? Ouch, bad pun.
    12-13-13 04:39 PM
  3. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    There are a lot of things that are possible.

    What's unknown is what Google wants to do, and what has been negotiated with them.

    There are plenty of people who say that this or that is "impossible" due to the other manufacturers. This is almost-certainly not true. Anyone who asserts that needs to produce evidence of the exclusionary contractual language binding Google to NOT grant permission to BlackBerry in a form that can be proved up to be real. Absent that Google is free to act as Google sees as being in their best interest.

    Given the clear business opportunity for a secure, multi-partition environment for devices in the enterprise and government spaces, and where BlackBerry is with that compared against everyone else the balance of evidence points in one direction, and anyone looking at this dispassionately knows it.
    This is something I hadn't really thought of. The OHA, as I understand it, governs how others get access to Gapps (essentially). I don't know that it prohibits Google from entering into agreements on its own. You might be right here. For example, is Barnes & Noble a member of OHA? I have to go research this stuff...

    I'm torn on this. From the perspective of a BB10 user it is great. I love to tinker, I don't mind asking to obtain apks and hybrids appeal to me. From a BBRY's fan POV? This makes me nervous. The only entity really benefiting is good old Goog from my layman's perspective.
    12-13-13 04:46 PM
  4. CharredPC's Avatar
    I hope we get Google Play. It does seem logical that all this Android work would culminate into that sort of result. But saying BlackBerry will still fail/not be good enough due to hardware specs? I can't agree with that.

    I haven't "owned every BlackBerry model", nor am I a staunch "BlackBerry Only!" user. I bought my Q10 because no one else offers a keyboard like this. I love that it has great battery life- better than Android devices I've personally seen / used. I personally feel that BlackBerries tend to be more stable as well. Some of this is grounded in fact, some may be opinion (the same as someone liking or hating Ford, for example)... either way, I think it's safe to say that these opinions are shared by enough people that we will keep buying them. Even if the latest Samsung model is .5GHz faster.

    My 9700 had miserable specs, yet did quite a lot, and pretty snappily. One thing I like to use an example is Windows95. Clicking around in the GUI on a Pentium II running Win95 was like lightning. Yet no one would even consider trying to run Windows Vista on a Pentium 3 or even 4, it would be nightmarishly slow. Faster hardware doesn't mean crap. OS5 on my 9700 was awesome, OS6 was sluggish. BlackBerry has always done very well at optimizing, be it battery life, responsiveness, or eeking out every possible feature for the hardware (hello, FM radio on the Q10! ) . I've always felt like they were the resourceful, clever underdog company- why on earth would we want them to "win" by dominating the market with bleeding edge specs? They've never been known for that. Let the other companies spit out buggy, three-hour-battery-life 8-core devices that sell simply based on theoretical number-based bang for the lowest buck.

    BlackBerry doesn't need to rule the world to be the best choice for me. They do that simply by being the smarter choice. Solving the #1 all-time complaint- giving us a whole cross-platform world of apps- without changing who they are... I for one applaud them, and won't play armchair quarterback on everything they are doing 'wrong'.

    Posted via CB10
    ital1, pfl4ume, epark88 and 2 others like this.
    12-13-13 05:00 PM
  5. Sparro's Avatar
    I say bring on Google Play and Google Services. The BlackBerry platform needs it to survive.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    12-13-13 05:24 PM
  6. MyFirstOwnUsername's Avatar
    Licencing issues will prevent the integration of play store. Cyanogenmod isn't allowed to directly include google apps either. Furthermore not all Android apps are yet compatible, and therefore it would be too risky for BlackBerry to include a store wgich allows the users to install non- or malfunctioning apps. Many users would just be too stupid, not care about warnings, install every app from play store and then sue BlackBerry when their phone config gets messed up. This might be exaggerated, but nowadays you can't releasy anything which is not *****-safe, especially (but not only) in the United States.

    Posted via CB10
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    12-13-13 05:40 PM
  7. ofutur's Avatar
    I think the agreement is already in the bag.
    Yeah... At one week from the announcement, that has to be signed
    Last edited by ofutur; 12-14-13 at 07:03 PM.
    12-13-13 05:43 PM
  8. sianto's Avatar
    I think it's a must have for the gross of the market, but I'm also fine without it. I have almost all the apps I need working properly except the Google ones...

    Furthermore I think BlackBerry is the best supporter of their smartphones. They give out a lot of (good) updates, unlike (you know) every Android OEM. Not only the high end, but all of them.

    Whether they give my this option or not, my next device will be a BlackBerry!
    12-13-13 05:55 PM
  9. Gnomesane's Avatar
    I think it's a must have for the gross of the market, but I'm also fine without it. I have almost all the apps I need working properly except the Google ones...

    Furthermore I think BlackBerry is the best supporter of their smartphones. They give out a lot of (good) updates, unlike (you know) every Android OEM. Not only the high end, but all of them.

    Whether they give my this option or not, my next device will be a BlackBerry!
    And congrats on your first post! Welcome to the forums!
    eldricho and damien kupuku like this.
    12-13-13 05:58 PM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    On the practical side of things, I am very confident about what is coming in terms of BlackBerry accessing the Google ecosystem...

    As for business decisions vs. other decisions, let's not forget we're talking about the company that fell into the BBX fiasco not so long ago. IP doesn't seem to be their strong point, unless it involves defending spurious patent infringement claims.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1829
    I forgot about BBX.

    But, my guess is that BB went with the BBX name with eyes wide open. As you surely know, choosing the same name can be allowed, even if trademarked, so long as (basically) there will be no consumer confusion - different industries, different kinds of products, etc. I think BB just thought that they'd deal with the BBX issue one way or the other. Negotiations obviously broke down and BB went another way.

    That is a very different think than taking someone else's copyrighted code and distributing it to third parties.

    Some green light had to have been given or else it would not have been done, assuming, of course, that it this has been done.
    12-13-13 06:57 PM
  11. MelCali82's Avatar
    Licencing issues will prevent the integration of play store. Cyanogenmod isn't allowed to directly include google apps either. Furthermore not all Android apps are yet compatible, and therefore it would be too risky for BlackBerry to include a store wgich allows the users to install non- or malfunctioning apps. Many users would just be too stupid, not care about warnings, install every app from play store and then sue BlackBerry when their phone config gets messed up. This might be exaggerated, but nowadays you can't releasy anything which is not *****-safe, especially (but not only) in the United States.

    Posted via CB10
    I thought about that too.. but then I remembered how Android apps show up based on compatibility. If an app is not compatible withe the HTC One, it won't show up in the Google Play store. So if Google Play was available officially, Blackberry owners will not see any Moto X specific apps such as the touchless apps because it is not supported by any other phone. Not sure if BB allows devs to make use of the proximity sensor, if not, then all of those apps in the Google Play store that allow you to lock/unlock/launch apps with the proximity sensor will not show up either if Google Play was available on BB's
    mnc76 likes this.
    12-13-13 08:10 PM
  12. Omnitech's Avatar
    The question is will ALL Android apps work in official 10.2.1 , if you say Google play, because it's nice if all android apps work

    Because of the completely unique way that BlackBerry is running Android apps side-by-side with BlackBerry 10's OS and apps, I doubt there will ever be exactly 100.000% compatibility.

    There are actually some very unusual things that they have done to make that work as well as it already does, including special code put in there for the sole purpose of making popular apps work. People who sideloaded Instagram and found it working on the device were not geniuses that discovered a diamond nugget in their backyard - BlackBerry engineers probably spent days or months working on code specifically so that app would run on their Android VM.


    Also, I asked Justin Jassman of BlackBerry during the Android seminar last week, and his reponse was as follows:

    Why the secrecy over this implementation detail?

    The way people talk here sometimes leaves the impression that they must actually believe that a company has no right to internal deliberations of a highly sensitive competitive nature without sharing all of those deliberations with the entire world prior to when they feel it would be competitively advantageous or even feasible to do so.


    In addition, I feel that general performance needs to be improved in the Android runtime. From what I've experienced, it appears that the networking code in the BB10 Android implementation is particularly poor. Also, scrolling of long lists is often very bad (low frames per second = lack of smoothness... but this could be due to poor network performance on lists that have content dynamically downloaded off the network as one scrolls down).

    The Android VM in BB10 is sharing resources including memory, storage, network, input, sensor, CPU and GPU cycles with another complete OS environment running side-by-side with it on the same hardware at the same time.

    This is the same hardware that is constantly being ridiculed here for being not competitive with the latest offerings of the Android device manufacturers.

    The fact that you might not get end-user performance equivalent to a modern, dedicated Android device with superior hardware specification in such an environment is not a surprise at all. Neither would I be the least bit surprised if when BlackBerry designed and tunes BB10, they do it in a way that does not allow the Android VM to compromise the performance of the native BB10 OS system and application performance. Any other stance on that would be pretty absurd.

    I have definitely seen evidence of the "time slicing" that happens wrt the Android VM in BB10 - and it doesn't surprise me whatsoever. I don't think the goal can ever be "better performance than dedicated Android running on a device of equivalent hardware spec". All they have to achieve is "good enough performance to accomplish most of what users will expect of it". And on that front, I think they have succeeded quite well. And in fact, have much to be proud of.
    Last edited by Omnitech; 12-13-13 at 08:28 PM. Reason: Missing word
    12-13-13 08:16 PM
  13. Omnitech's Avatar

    Already answered:

    If you're using Snap all that means is Snap registered your Android VM as a "Z10". AFAIK Google Play will list it as whatever name it claimed to be when it registered for an ID.

    Now if you have never used Snap, that would be an interesting screenshot.
    12-13-13 08:25 PM
  14. kaizvn's Avatar
    I'm really really bored with my Z10 .
    but It's ok, I'm playing with a nexus. Thanks for many leakendless . holy sheet.
    12-13-13 09:10 PM
  15. ray689's Avatar
    I'm really really bored with my Z10 .
    but It's ok, I'm playing with a nexus. Thanks for many leakendless . holy sheet.
    Okay

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-13 09:32 PM
  16. zaid-z10's Avatar
    Still mum's the word!!!!

    Z10 running 10.2.1.1811

    Posted via CB10
    Give me your BlackBerry bbm pin

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    12-13-13 10:01 PM
  17. m1kr0's Avatar
    Counting the days until December 20.......
    12-13-13 11:19 PM
  18. JoBudden's Avatar
    Counting the days until December 20.......
    Me too.. but only cause it's my wife's birthday.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-13 11:25 PM
  19. GP540's Avatar
    This was just posted on twitter
    [Speculation] Google play in 10.2.1.14XX-_new_tw_rail_img.png
    [Speculation] Google play in 10.2.1.14XX-img_20131255.png

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-13-13 11:35 PM
  20. SirJes's Avatar
    And I'm going to retweet it!!!!

    CLICK HERE To Join My Music & Poetry Channel. Please&Thanks.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-13-13 11:38 PM
  21. Iggy City's Avatar
    Me too.. but only cause it's my wife's birthday.

    Posted via CB10
    Christmas and birthday.


    RIP your wallet.
    12-14-13 01:33 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    This was just posted on twitter
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	_new_Tw_rail_img.png 
Views:	2852 
Size:	90.3 KB 
ID:	229744
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20131255.png 
Views:	2850 
Size:	86.1 KB 
ID:	229745

    I guess I'm dense, but I have *no* idea what that is supposed to mean.
    12-14-13 03:16 AM
  23. wu-wei's Avatar
    I forgot about BBX.

    But, my guess is that BB went with the BBX name with eyes wide open. As you surely know, choosing the same name can be allowed, even if trademarked, so long as (basically) there will be no consumer confusion - different industries, different kinds of products, etc. I think BB just thought that they'd deal with the BBX issue one way or the other. Negotiations obviously broke down and BB went another way.

    That is a very different think than taking someone else's copyrighted code and distributing it to third parties.

    Some green light had to have been given or else it would not have been done, assuming, of course, that it this has been done.
    Glad to have had the honor of reminding you about BBX. LOL.

    I agree that it was a different issue based on trademark, and obviously a calculated rusk was taken.

    As for the Google issues, well, I think time will sort all of this out. And I don't anticipate BlackBerry users will be disappointed.

    Good to see you around again. I know we've had our differences in the past, but I appreciate the dialogue.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1829
    12-14-13 03:20 AM
  24. wu-wei's Avatar
    I thought about that too.. but then I remembered how Android apps show up based on compatibility. If an app is not compatible withe the HTC One, it won't show up in the Google Play store. So if Google Play was available officially, Blackberry owners will not see any Moto X specific apps such as the touchless apps because it is not supported by any other phone. Not sure if BB allows devs to make use of the proximity sensor, if not, then all of those apps in the Google Play store that allow you to lock/unlock/launch apps with the proximity sensor will not show up either if Google Play was available on BB's
    The compatibility question is a good one. And perhaps it reveals a few things? I ran into an issue just yesterday looking for an app that, turns out, is not compatible with my T-Mobile Z10. Hmm.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1829
    12-14-13 03:22 AM
  25. cgk's Avatar
    This is something I hadn't really thought of. The OHA, as I understand it, governs how others get access to Gapps (essentially). I don't know that it prohibits Google from entering into agreements on its own. You might be right here. For example, is Barnes & Noble a member of OHA? I have to go research this stuff...

    I'm torn on this. From the perspective of a BB10 user it is great. I love to tinker, I don't mind asking to obtain apks and hybrids appeal to me. From a BBRY's fan POV? This makes me nervous. The only entity really benefiting is good old Goog from my layman's perspective.
    The OHA and the access to GAPPS is used by google as a stick to control what OEMs do - to allow BBRY access to google play without ensuring the same level of control they have over other OEMS would be very odd, even odder when you consider that BBRY is on its knees and has no leverage in any negotiations.
    Last edited by cgk; 12-14-13 at 04:48 AM.
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    12-14-13 04:01 AM
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