09-28-14 11:44 PM
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  1. mnc76's Avatar
    A major hint perhaps, is the fact that BlackBerry have publicly said that they will support Google MapView v2. It is known that MapView v2 requires Google Play Services. So the question is: How can they publicy state they will support an API that requires GPS and at the same time say that they will NOT support GPS???

    Alec Saunder's won't explain how this will work:
    [Alec Saunders said ] there are no plans he can share about Google Play Services support required for MapView v2 support that they are working on. I also asked if they had any plans to map Google Play Services to the BlackBerry 10 accounts and sadly he had nothing to share so far.

    Alec Saunders Talks About Improved & Open Android Runtime in BlackBerry 10.2.1
    Also, I asked Justin Jassman of BlackBerry during the Android seminar last week, and his reponse was as follows:
    mnc76: How will BlackBerry support MapView v2 (which requires Google Play Services)?
    Justin Jasmann (BlackBerry - Android):That is an implementation detail that is yet to be released
    Why the secrecy over this implementation detail? One would think that either: (a) it's a propeprietary implementation that will never be released, or (b) it is something that can be freely discussed (at least on a high level). Why would it be something that needs to have a special time and place to officially "be released"?

    Also, I can't imagine (as lawguy points out) that BlackBerry would release a commercial product that uses some "grey area" workaround to link into GPS...

    N4BB posted on this a while ago:
    The MapView v1 API was replaced by the v2 API that was released in late 2012. BlackBerry promised that “support for MapView v2 API is being planned for a future release” which is nice to see. This v2 API is more complex and offers more features but requires the key “Google Play Services” to be installed. This is something that is required by many Google apps and services (including Google Play Store) and something that is not currently available on BlackBerry 10. We have been seeing BlackBerry making some changes to what is whitelisted on the Android Runtime so it make you wonder…

    Can BlackBerry possibly be bringing over Google Play Services to BlackBerry 10 or did they find a way around it? Could this possibly be the source of the rumors of Google Play coming to BlackBerry 10?

    Google Play Services REQUIRED for Upcoming BlackBerry 10 Android MapView v2 Support?
    Another interesting article (the topic of which was discovered by a Crackberrian and mentioned many times by many posters here):
    MoneyToo over at CrackBerry forums found that the Android runtime from the latest OS 10.2.1.1055 leak no longer blacklists the Google Play Store... In other words these permissions give the Google Play Store app system privileges to install and update apps on the device among other things.

    Google Play Store Whitelisted In New OS 10.2.1 Leak as BlackBerry Denies Plans
    Last edited by mnc76; 12-13-13 at 11:38 AM.
    12-13-13 11:24 AM
  2. m1kr0's Avatar
    What about a BlackBerry Play ?
    Just another source, trusted with tested APKs ...

    oh, I did it again ...
    Is this a revelation or just a speculation? I must say its not that far fetched at all.
    12-13-13 11:32 AM
  3. matt0135's Avatar
    I hope that BlackBerry brings Google Play officially to BB10 but they also need to address following things :
    1. They need to improve the speed of the apps so that they match the original Android experience (especially the boot up).
    2. They need to address the API-s necessary for all Android apps to run on BB10
    3. BlackBerry needs to improve the design of new phones. Why don't they use Porsche Design for standard phones?
    4. They finally need to start producing hardware with competitive specs.

    If BlackBerry is able to address all of those points maybe the hardware business has a bright future.

    Sent from my Q10 using Tapatalk 2
    I agree. Right now I'm using 10.2.1.1055 and android apps run great (most) but yes startup performance needs to be seriously looked into. That along with proper integration like push notifications and social networking, for example Facebook will connect with candycrush no problem but not with other apps. As for design I'm happy with blackberrys look atm but in terms of specs they need to not only match android but set the bar even higher.

    If blackberry just allows Google play without any of the things mentioned above, it will be counterproductive in my eyes.

    Posted via CB10 on my awesome new Z30!
    12-13-13 11:40 AM
  4. R Field's Avatar
    What about a BlackBerry Play ?
    Just another source, trusted with tested APKs ...

    oh, I did it again ...
    This would be amazing and the ideal solution IMO

    BlackBerry Z30 | 10.2.1.1055 | C0006E212
    12-13-13 12:02 PM
  5. R Field's Avatar
    Those quotes are just to cover themselves. They're all under NDA agreements so they can't say anything unless given the green light.

    BlackBerry Z30 | 10.2.1.1055 | C0006E212
    12-13-13 12:06 PM
  6. ofutur's Avatar
    This would be amazing and the ideal solution IMO

    BlackBerry Z30 | 10.2.1.1055 | C0006E212
    Agreed... native app, the Android catalog, re-use of our accounts, money shared between BB and Google and world peace.
    R Field, pili4, eldricho and 2 others like this.
    12-13-13 12:27 PM
  7. dustmalik's Avatar
    Agreed... native app, the Android catalog, re-use of our accounts, money shared between BB and Google and world peace.
    Don't we all wish.

    Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z10
    12-13-13 12:41 PM
  8. mnc76's Avatar
    I agree. Right now I'm using 10.2.1.1055 and android apps run great (most) but yes startup performance needs to be seriously looked into. That along with proper integration like push notifications and social networking, for example Facebook will connect with candycrush no problem but not with other apps. As for design I'm happy with blackberrys look atm but in terms of specs they need to not only match android but set the bar even higher.

    If blackberry just allows Google play without any of the things mentioned above, it will be counterproductive in my eyes.

    Posted via CB10 on my awesome new Z30!
    In addition, I feel that general performance needs to be improved in the Android runtime. From what I've experienced, it appears that the networking code in the BB10 Android implementation is particularly poor. Also, scrolling of long lists is often very bad (low frames per second = lack of smoothness... but this could be due to poor network performance on lists that have content dynamically downloaded off the network as one scrolls down).

    It's weird, but it seems the BB10 Android runtime has FAR more difficulty with basic 2D graphics than with complex 3D graphics. Perhaps its because 3D uses OpenGL ES (which can tap into BB's native implementation), and 2D requires more trips through the virtual machine to process...(?)

    As for notifications: In the seminar they said that the runtime supports them IF you add some entries into your bar manifest. It basically tells the BlackBerry servers to listen to Google's notification servers and forwards the notifications to your BB10 phone. It doesn't require any modification to your APK binary, BUT, it's not something that works with a straight sideload. (For example: SoundCloud sideloaded = no notifications unless the app was running. SoundCloud from BBW = notifications even when the app is not running).

    They also said that sharing from BB10 apps -> Android apps will be supported. But sharing from Android apps -> BB10 apps will not be supported (at least at first). (However, sharing from Android to BB10 SMS and Email seems to work fine).
    Last edited by mnc76; 12-13-13 at 12:58 PM.
    rmatyskiewicz and 00stryder like this.
    12-13-13 12:44 PM
  9. berryabusr88's Avatar
    So when the Z50 is release with SG4 specs and has to compete against the SG5 with next gen specs. And BlackBerry being in business and not able to sell the device at "write down prices" has to sell it for $50 - $100 more than the SG5.

    Other than a million or so superfans that already own every other BlackBerry devices.... who will buy it?

    Yes the App Gap, which was a MAJOR reason not to buy a BB10 device will be gone.... but what about all the other reasons. Price, Hardware, Marketing, Carrier Support, Brand Perception.....
    Well I certainly didn't go into every detail of why the bb10 release was an epic fail. We all know around here about the write down ,the lack of marketing and the behind the times specs. I believe that Mr.Chen will fix those problems that's why he's been brought on.

    Posted via CB10
    12-13-13 01:04 PM
  10. freedomx20a's Avatar
    im beginning to feel like a rap GOD!
    12-13-13 01:17 PM
  11. Tecker Man's Avatar
    im beginning to feel like a rap GOD!
    what? where does EMNM come into the convo
    12-13-13 01:23 PM
  12. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    I'm going to disagree with you on this, at least for now. From the looks of it there are already too many 2nd tier app stores out there. The only way I could see this working would be BB striking a deal to re-brand an existing store.
    Absolutely. Do not start from scratch is key #1 IMHO. Re-brand or team with (white brand ?) and existing and well known store is my fav option here. Now, can this be google play store ? hum ... I don't know (to make it 100% clear).

    Yeah, I wondered about that in the original thread weeks (?) ago. If BlackBerry were to reach out to developers for official permission and just created a mini Android store within BlackBerry World itself. Certainly, that would be the 'cleanest', but presumably they wouldn't be given full access to Google Play Services (and lose some functionality like signing into Google Maps).
    Team up with a trustable known store and "license" Google play (services, not store) is also a possible option ...

    Is this a revelation or just a speculation? I must say its not that far fetched at all.
    100% pure Speculation.

    This would be amazing and the ideal solution IMO
    Amazing, yes. Ideal ... so many aspects to consider ...

    Agreed... native app, the Android catalog, re-use of our accounts, money shared between BB and Google and world peace.
    "We therefore I am" ?
    Well, let's start here around the Mobile Nation; would be a beautiful start !
    12-13-13 01:26 PM
  13. butterbean1983's Avatar
    Would be nice. Possible but at the same time hard to believe.

    Wonder how the whole thing would work? Will Blackberry users be able to leave reviews? How heavily modified of a Google Play version would we get, if true? Android allows devs to create some crazy apps that would never be able to run properly on a Blackberry device.. for example apps that make use of the status bar, widgets, pop-up windows, floating apps, apps that require gestures(would interfere with bbos10 gestures), etc..

    Also, if true, there has to be some Android devs out there that have some clue about it because of device testing especially the bigger developers. wouldnt they see a bbos 10 device accessing their apps? This is a pretty big deal so I am surprised there havent been any more leaks/screens regarding the subject
    Well, our phones already have an android device ID. If we were to get Google play, it would have to be able to recognize our device ID. Google Play would then (hopefully) be able to tell which apps are incompatible with our device, and then we would get a message saying "this app is not available for your device". Or something like that, I'm assuming anyway.

    Posted via Q10 running 10.2.1.1055 bbm channel C0037DB1A
    12-13-13 01:26 PM
  14. butterbean1983's Avatar
    I always find it humorous when ppl say BlackBerry needs to compete with android in hardware. I disagree. Do you know how much memory some of the legacy devices had? 64mb. Internal. And I never had a problem with any of my legacy devices having enough memory. I realize that today's market has changed, but a stable os can still do more with less, and I see nothing wrong with that. I've had two android devices with a decent amount of internal memory, but the os handled the memory horribly. Android might be top dog, but the platform is NOT completely stable across all manufacturers. BlackBerry may not be 100% stable right now for everyone, but at least it's still manufactured by only one company, and that gives it the advantage in stability. You can have the best hardware in the world, but without a stable platform, it's just a rather expensive hunk of junk.

    Posted via Q10 running 10.2.1.1055 bbm channel C0037DB1A
    12-13-13 01:33 PM
  15. stabstabdie's Avatar
    Didn't I tell you guys in October we were getting Google Play?

    Posted via CB10
    when you just make unsubstantiated claims, there is always a chance that it may actually happen... you got lucky if this turns out to be true.
    12-13-13 02:20 PM
  16. Gnomesane's Avatar
    A major hint perhaps, is the fact that BlackBerry have publicly said that they will support Google MapView v2. It is known that MapView v2 requires Google Play Services. So the question is: How can they publicy state they will support an API that requires GPS and at the same time say that they will NOT support GPS???

    Alec Saunder's won't explain how this will work:
    ..snip
    Nice research! Thanks!
    p620 likes this.
    12-13-13 02:25 PM
  17. stabstabdie's Avatar
    A major hint perhaps, is the fact that BlackBerry have publicly said that they will support Google MapView v2. It is known that MapView v2 requires Google Play Services. So the question is: How can they publicy state they will support an API that requires GPS and at the same time say that they will NOT support GPS???

    Alec Saunder's won't explain how this will work:


    Also, I asked Justin Jassman of BlackBerry during the Android seminar last week, and his reponse was as follows:


    Why the secrecy over this implementation detail? One would think that either: (a) it's a propeprietary implementation that will never be released, or (b) it is something that can be freely discussed (at least on a high level). Why would it be something that needs to have a special time and place to officially "be released"?

    Also, I can't imagine (as lawguy points out) that BlackBerry would release a commercial product that uses some "grey area" workaround to link into GPS...

    N4BB posted on this a while ago:


    Another interesting article (the topic of which was discovered by a Crackberrian and mentioned many times by many posters here):
    Now THIS is how you Crackberry Forum son!
    12-13-13 02:25 PM
  18. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Team up with a trustable known store and "license" Google play (services, not store) is also a possible option ...
    Cool, don't know much about licensing, et al. If that's the case and Google will make that deal, I'd say integrating Android apps into BlackBerry World would be the ideal solution, hands down. I guess Google wouldn't care so long as BlackBerry doesn't break their terms of service, I just assumed they'd want to direct traffic to their Play Store.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-13-13 02:28 PM
  19. Rule9's Avatar
    Google has a very strict and comprehensive set of requirements that must be met before any manufacturer is allowed access to Google Play Services. In order for BB phones to meet all those requirements, they would end up being pretty much... Android phones. Highly doubt this is going to happen.

    Highly suggested reading:

    http://www.wired.co.uk/news/archive/...rip-on-android
    12-13-13 02:46 PM
  20. anon8182988's Avatar
    Still mum's the word!!!!

    Z10 running 10.2.1.1811

    Posted via CB10
    ray689 and m1kr0 like this.
    12-13-13 03:03 PM
  21. Gnomesane's Avatar
    Google has a very strict and comprehensive set of requirements that must be met before any manufacturer is allowed access to Google Play Services. In order for BB phones to meet all those requirements, they would end up being pretty much... Android phones. Highly doubt this is going to happen.

    Highly suggested reading:

    Google's iron grip on Android: controlling open source by any means necessary (Wired UK)
    Good read. Hum... Here's my question(s): if Samsung, Sony, HTC, LG and other approved vendors can make their own versions of Android apps that don't tightly integrate with Google Play Services and still use Google apps that do on the same handset, couldn't BlackBerry theoretically do the same thing? Only in this case it would be BB10 powered alternates (eg. BlackBerry Maps, Cloud Services, BBM, etc...)?

    I'm a newbie and very uninformed with this subject. Please be gentle if I've missed something obvious as to why that isn't possible.
    12-13-13 03:38 PM
  22. tickerguy's Avatar
    There are a lot of things that are possible.

    What's unknown is what Google wants to do, and what has been negotiated with them.

    There are plenty of people who say that this or that is "impossible" due to the other manufacturers. This is almost-certainly not true. Anyone who asserts that needs to produce evidence of the exclusionary contractual language binding Google to NOT grant permission to BlackBerry in a form that can be proved up to be real. Absent that Google is free to act as Google sees as being in their best interest.

    Given the clear business opportunity for a secure, multi-partition environment for devices in the enterprise and government spaces, and where BlackBerry is with that compared against everyone else the balance of evidence points in one direction, and anyone looking at this dispassionately knows it.
    ital1 likes this.
    12-13-13 03:49 PM
  23. wu-wei's Avatar
    I very much doubt all of those things.

    Some of this is just common sense. If BlackBerry did not negotiate for itself the right to commercially sell this software, it makes no sense to have proceeded as far as it has with this project.

    Also, it is no defense under copyright law that the sharing to carriers was done for testing purposes. That act would subject BlackBerry to liability.

    I am not suggesting that BlackBerry might not still kill this. But, it would be a business decision to do it, not a legally required decision.

    Posted via CB10
    On the practical side of things, I am very confident about what is coming in terms of BlackBerry accessing the Google ecosystem...

    As for business decisions vs. other decisions, let's not forget we're talking about the company that fell into the BBX fiasco not so long ago. IP doesn't seem to be their strong point, unless it involves defending spurious patent infringement claims.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.1829
    ofutur likes this.
    12-13-13 03:51 PM
  24. Gnomesane's Avatar
    There are a lot of things that are possible.

    What's unknown is what Google wants to do, and what has been negotiated with them.

    There are plenty of people who say that this or that is "impossible" due to the other manufacturers. This is almost-certainly not true. Anyone who asserts that needs to produce evidence of the exclusionary contractual language binding Google to NOT grant permission to BlackBerry in a form that can be proved up to be real. Absent that Google is free to act as Google sees as being in their best interest.

    Given the clear business opportunity for a secure, multi-partition environment for devices in the enterprise and government spaces, and where BlackBerry is with that compared against everyone else the balance of evidence points in one direction, and anyone looking at this dispassionately knows it.
    Good points. Thinking about it, Samsung is taking their own path (sans Google) with KNOX in the enterprise, and cheesed off Google in the past with their multi-window implementation... By partnering with BlackBerry, Google gets an advantage over Samsung in that regard possibly? Not to mention that BlackBerry will be using Google Services if they come to an agreement, no doubt.
    12-13-13 04:01 PM
  25. tickerguy's Avatar
    I think the agreement is already in the bag.
    12-13-13 04:10 PM
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