09-28-14 11:44 PM
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  1. ofutur's Avatar
    Except not all boot loaders are locked. Samsung's, in particular, are not and yet Samsung hasn't been ejected for refusing.

    Virtually all Samsung devices can thus by rooted by putting the device in download mode (usually DOWN volume + power when turned off) and then flashing a recovery using ODIN that (1) writes the "su" utility to the /system partition (which is usually write-protected, but in recovery it is not as that's how you load firmware) and (2) re-writes the stock recovery back.

    This is a 30-second process and is non-destructive to whatever else may be on the device, and since unlike some of the other ways to do it (specifically, replacing the recovery with a custom one that can flash arbitrary ZIP files -- such as a ZIP file containing the SU utility) it also doesn't cause OTA updates to fail it is a very nice way to accomplish exactly that -- gaining root access.
    He was talking about Nexus devices , but Samsung is now locking their bootloaders as well.
    12-22-13 11:30 AM
  2. ofutur's Avatar
    BTW there are versions up to near 10.2.1.1900 "in the wild".... yes, I have an actual list and it's not speculative either.

    1259 is way behind where BlackBerry is internally....
    Yes... carriers have been testing these 1913, 1916, etc. official, ready for production releases and since xmas is upon us, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what gets' released on the 4th.
    12-22-13 11:32 AM
  3. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    So what you're saying is, a phone or tab can ship with root access, as long as it isn't enabled out of the box? So basically it can be rooted, but root can't be enabled? That's a little confusing and I'm not sure I follow entirely. If you hack to gain root, it's automatically enabled once the rooting process is complete. So how do you root without enabling it? Because I know that I have heard of a few devices coming rooted out of the box. Again, not disputing what you're saying, just confused here. I don't really get why Google would care about root. Since most warranties are presided over directly by carriers, root seems (or at least in my mind) more of a carrier issue. It's been said that all Google really cares about is selling apps, and I see no way that rooting affects app sales, unless it has to do with being able to disable Google services, and if you didn't want Google services, you're probably not likely to buy an android device anyway, since Google services are the core of android. If there is a way to root without automatically enabling root access, I'm not aware what it is. Unless it has to do with building root from the source code, as opposed to hacking it. That would be the only way that would make sense to me. I'm no expert when it comes to actual development, but I have a fair amount of experience with android and rooting, and know a good bit about the platform. So this is new information for me.

    Posted with CB10 via Q10 running 10.2.1.1259
    Most (all?) Android phones can be rooted, the fact is that most aren't actually rooted when you turn them on. The user has to enable root in most cases. Just because a device can be rooted doesn't mean it is rooted.
    Pre-rooted devices don't pass Google's tests.

    To root an Android device, you need to unlock the bootloader first (unless it was sold with the bootloader unlocked).

    Remember, the N1 running CM10 is the only phone to date running a custom ROM to get Google's blessing.

    I'm guessing not allowing Root out of the box has something to do with the OHA.
    12-22-13 11:43 AM
  4. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Except not all boot loaders are locked. Samsung's, in particular, are not and yet Samsung hasn't been ejected for refusing.

    Virtually all Samsung devices can thus by rooted by putting the device in download mode (usually DOWN volume + power when turned off) and then flashing a recovery using ODIN that (1) writes the "su" utility to the /system partition (which is usually write-protected, but in recovery it is not as that's how you load firmware) and (2) re-writes the stock recovery back.

    This is a 30-second process and is non-destructive to whatever else may be on the device, and since unlike some of the other ways to do it (specifically, replacing the recovery with a custom one that can flash arbitrary ZIP files -- such as a ZIP file containing the SU utility) it also doesn't cause OTA updates to fail it is a very nice way to accomplish exactly that -- gaining root access.
    Regardless of Samsung's bootloader being unlocked (something carriers frown upon), their devices aren't rooted out of the box. The user has to enabled that - as you rightly pointed out.

    Same with Nexus devices (only the dev devices come with the bootloader unlocked).
    12-22-13 11:48 AM
  5. sianto's Avatar
    Yes... carriers have been testing these 1913, 1916, etc. official, ready for production releases and since xmas is upon us, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what gets' released on the 4th.
    Can you also update from 1055 to release (when official is released) ?

    Posted via CB10
    12-22-13 12:20 PM
  6. tickerguy's Avatar
    Yes... carriers have been testing these 1913, 1916, etc. official, ready for production releases and since xmas is upon us, I wouldn't be surprised if that's what gets' released on the 4th.
    I haven't seen a 19xx yet but I have seen some high 18xx numbers (very high)
    12-22-13 12:25 PM
  7. ray689's Avatar
    Can you also update from 1055 to release (when official is released) ?

    Posted via CB10
    Yes you can always update to a higher official carrier released OS even if you have a leak installed.

    Posted via CB10
    sianto likes this.
    12-22-13 12:25 PM
  8. tickerguy's Avatar
    Can you also update from 1055 to release (when official is released) ?

    Posted via CB10
    Probably. There is some risk in it though since the update processing is designed around coming from one official release to another.

    Most of the time it works non-destructively, but not always.
    12-22-13 12:26 PM
  9. sianto's Avatar
    Probably. There is some risk in it though since the update processing is designed around coming from one official release to another.

    Most of the time it works non-destructively, but not always.
    Did it ever destruct you phone? (Coming from a beta version)

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    12-22-13 12:42 PM
  10. tickerguy's Avatar
    Did it ever destruct you phone? (Coming from a beta version)

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    Yes; it trashed the Hub to the point of being unusable; I was forced to build a debrick loader and start over.
    12-22-13 01:38 PM
  11. sianto's Avatar
    Yes; it trashed the Hub to the point of being unusable; I was forced to build a debrick loader and start over.
    So I should go back to official 10.2 to be sure.

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    12-22-13 01:45 PM
  12. russworman's Avatar
    So I should go back to official 10.2 to be sure.

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    I don't think you can roll back from 10.2.1.1055 to 10.2 restoring from a backup...

    Posted via CB10
    12-22-13 02:51 PM
  13. sianto's Avatar
    I don't think you can roll back from 10.2.1.1055 to 10.2 restoring from a backup...

    Posted via CB10
    Guess I'll take my chances then! I back upped my phone already.

    Btw, I hope that 10.2.1 final also brings moving apps to SD card.

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    12-22-13 03:19 PM
  14. mnc76's Avatar
    So have we now successfully disputed literally every argument against the *possibility* of Google Play Services coming to BB10?

    (I'm specifically referring to claims some have made that GPS can *never* come to BB10, *even in theory*, due to technical and legal reasons)

    And Note: I'm NOT saying that BB10 WILL get GPS, only that it appears that it CAN get GPS.

    Does CJH wish to weigh in on this?

    CB10 : Z10 STL100-3 10.2.0.1803
    Last edited by mnc76; 12-23-13 at 02:33 AM.
    12-23-13 01:09 AM
  15. joeldf's Avatar
    Guess I'll take my chances then! I back upped my phone already.

    Btw, I hope that 10.2.1 final also brings moving apps to SD card.

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    There's been many comments for years now about how, for security reasons, that will never happen.
    12-23-13 01:15 AM
  16. aha's Avatar
    To be honest, even though I would be very happy if Google services and stores are open to BB10 10.2.1.x, this is probably just a dream. Think about what BBRY is working on right now with the new CEO on board and the tone they had in the quarterly report, can we really convince ourselves that they are busy in talking terms with Google right now? Don't think so.
    12-23-13 01:28 AM
  17. Omnitech's Avatar
    I don't think you can roll back from 10.2.1.1055 to 10.2 restoring from a backup..

    There are ways to trick Link to restore a backup from a higher build number to a lower build number (ie Darcy's tools), but that's uncharted territory and no guarantee things won't end up FUBAR afterwards.
    12-23-13 01:49 AM
  18. sayf777's Avatar
    I would think there is a way to implement app2sd while not allowing it has be pirated.



    Posted via CB10
    12-23-13 02:03 AM
  19. inCQR's Avatar
    BTW there are versions up to near 10.2.1.1900 "in the wild".... yes, I have an actual list and it's not speculative either.

    1259 is way behind where BlackBerry is internally....
    The same thing was said by BerryInsider, also he said that he has 1925..

    Posted via CB10
    12-23-13 05:14 AM
  20. sianto's Avatar
    The same thing was said by BerryInsider, also he said that he has 1925..

    Posted via CB10
    Has he given any details on what his version brings?

    CB10 from the amazing Z10
    12-23-13 05:46 AM
  21. tickerguy's Avatar
    The same thing was said by BerryInsider, also he said that he has 1925..

    Posted via CB10
    Well, unless "Berryinsider" is an actual employee he is likely a second-hand source. That is, he doesn't actually have it himself​.

    All of the "advanced" version numbers I've seen have been able to be linked back to a BlackBerry IP address, although many have been used beyond their borders (E.g. on someone's home WiFi or a carrier network.)

    (I have rather-extensive access to logs on various sites around the web since I do this sort of work, and as a result if you know where to look you can get software versions for various devices along with enough data to be reasonably-sure it's not someone toying with you.)
    12-23-13 08:15 AM
  22. sickyute's Avatar
    Can throw this theory out the window.

    Posted via CB10
    12-23-13 09:59 AM
  23. ofutur's Avatar
    Well, unless "Berryinsider" is an actual employee he is likely a second-hand source. That is, he doesn't actually have it himself​.

    All of the "advanced" version numbers I've seen have been able to be linked back to a BlackBerry IP address, although many have been used beyond their borders (E.g. on someone's home WiFi or a carrier network.)

    (I have rather-extensive access to logs on various sites around the web since I do this sort of work, and as a result if you know where to look you can get software versions for various devices along with enough data to be reasonably-sure it's not someone toying with you.)
    Exactly and that would explain why he never delivered, except for the one version BlackBerry wanted to leak out.
    12-23-13 10:41 AM
  24. mnc76's Avatar
    To be honest, even though I would be very happy if Google services and stores are open to BB10 10.2.1.x, this is probably just a dream. Think about what BBRY is working on right now with the new CEO on board and the tone they had in the quarterly report, can we really convince ourselves that they are busy in talking terms with Google right now? Don't think so.
    That's a good point. We have a lot of conflicting data here. On one hand we have all the technical info (like the option to use external app stores in the new leak, and the white listing of the play store in the .1055), but then the whole enterprise focus Chen is talking about seems not to need (or want) any access to Android app stores (CEOs don't care whether their employees can install Candy Crush or not).

    CB10 : Z10 STL100-3 10.2.0.1803
    12-23-13 05:29 PM
  25. tickerguy's Avatar
    Until I can get a look at the internals of the 1925 leak that just dropped I won't know if the GSF framework stub is still in there.

    I should get that loaded either tonight or tomorrow, and will post here once I know.
    12-23-13 05:44 PM
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