09-28-14 11:44 PM
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  1. yessuz's Avatar
    No...
    Read this first (post 31):
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post8391986

    Then read the article I took this quote from:
    "Google's developers have been working for over 2 years on ART, a replacement for Dalvik"

    Meet ART, Part 1: The New Super-Fast Android Runtime Google Has Been Working On In Secret For Over 2 Years Debuts In KitKat

    Google are making architectural changes to Android.
    but you understand, that there's a half a billion (or more) OLDER/weaker android devices which will never get anything close to kitkat?

    Also, there bazillion apps, which devs want to be compatible with older devices.

    therefore, nothing will change.

    bb will still be to run android apps.
    FairlightRacing likes this.
    12-16-13 04:48 AM
  2. lawguyman's Avatar
    but you understand, that there's a half a billion (or more) OLDER/weaker android devices which will never get anything close to kitkat?

    Also, there bazillion apps, which devs want to be compatible with older devices.

    therefore, nothing will change.

    bb will still be to run android apps.
    KitKit is designed to run on lower specs. This means that eventually all the gingerbread devices will be gone.

    ART is a replacement for dalvik. Both are open source and ART is meant to be compatible with Dalvik. BlackBerry has plenty of time to do to ART what it did to Dalvik.

    Posted via CB10
    FairlightRacing likes this.
    12-16-13 05:13 AM
  3. epark88's Avatar
    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 05:57 AM
  4. tickerguy's Avatar
    Remember that CJH said that BB10 would "never" run Android Native code.

    While, I remind you, it was fully-capable of doing so and in fact I was running native-embedded apps on BB10. You simply used to have to load a debug token (or have it submitted through BlackBerry World, as was the case for Skype.)

    How many times do you get to be (1) dead-flat wrong and (2) continue to run a fear-mongering load of garbage without being called out on it and stomped on by the mods?

    Just curious.
    ital1, Philtr, Pdinos3 and 10 others like this.
    12-16-13 06:08 AM
  5. HotFix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=mnc76;9713654]

    Explain to me how this method can "topple like a house of cards"? Just saying it can (or quoting someone on the Internet allegedly saying it can with no technical justification) is proof of nothing. How could Google alter Android so that BB10 could no longer intercept native function calls, yet still somehow preserve backwards compatibility with the current catalogue of Android apps?
    You are 100% right, they can't change Android enough to break BlackBerry's implementation without breaking existing Android devices and apps. And anything they change BlackBerry can probably adapt to.

    Here is another perspective, they can only change things in future versions because nothing they do now will affect existing apps. This means existing APK installs on BlackBerry 10.2.1.1055 devices will continue to exist they way they are forever. The only time something might break is if someone decides to upgrade their APK install, and then maybe that might break something, but that is the choice of the BlackBerry user and one that can be reversed by going back to the older APK file.

    Google does not have magical powers that can reach into our devices and break existing APKs because the BlackBerry Android emulator currently does not tie into their infrastructure.

    At this point I don't think it's worth responding to any more of his posts as they don't seem to be providing any benefit to the discussion of this thread. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 06:44 AM
  6. pghrox18's Avatar
    [QUOTE=HotFix;9714239]

    You are 100% right, they can't change Android enough to break BlackBerry's implementation without breaking existing Android devices and apps. And anything they change BlackBerry can probably adapt to.

    Here is another perspective, they can only change things in future versions because nothing they do now will affect existing apps. This means existing APK installs on BlackBerry 10.2.1.1055 devices will continue to exist they way they are forever. The only time something might break is if someone decides to upgrade their APK install, and then maybe that might break something, but that is the choice of the BlackBerry user and one that can be reversed by going back to the older APK file.

    Google does not have magical powers that can reach into our devices and break existing APKs because the BlackBerry Android emulator currently does not tie into their infrastructure.

    At this point I don't think it's worth responding to any more of his posts as they don't seem to be providing any benefit to the discussion of this thread. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    Besides, if you look at Google's history...they aren't about shutting anything or anyone down...from their perspective, if they can pull Blackberry into the Android app ecosystem, that's a good thing in the grander scheme of things...it will blur the lines between Android and Blackberry...it will be up to Blackberry to differentiate itself from the other Android phones in the market. From a Blackberry perspective, this Android app compatibility will knock down a major objection to the platform(app avail) and allow the brand to focus on the differentiators it has in the remainder of the OS and start focusing on advances with the QNX Car 2.0 platform and innovations in that space...
    ibpluto likes this.
    12-16-13 07:26 AM
  7. pghrox18's Avatar
    Is there anything that would preclude Blackberry from offering Android Apps in Blackberry World much like Amazon does?
    12-16-13 07:30 AM
  8. zaid-z10's Avatar
    I don't understand anything
    Will Google play come to BlackBerry 10

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    12-16-13 07:31 AM
  9. lawguyman's Avatar
    Is there anything that would preclude Blackberry from offering Android Apps in Blackberry World much like Amazon does?
    The owner of the App would have to put them in BlackBerry World and BlackBerry has not had much success with that. Play already exists and is full of Apps.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:33 AM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    I don't understand anything
    Will Google play come to BlackBerry 10

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.1.1055
    Time will tell. It is still rumor.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:34 AM
  11. Uzi's Avatar
    better than Kit Kat
    BlackBerry cheesecake
    [Speculation] Google play in 10.2.1.14XX-img_20131231.png

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 07:49 AM
  12. m1kr0's Avatar
    better than Kit Kat
    BlackBerry cheesecake
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	IMG_20131231.png 
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Size:	418.2 KB 
ID:	230412

    Posted via CB10
    thanks, I'll have a slice if you don't mind.

    Posted via the Android CrackBerry App!
    Uzi likes this.
    12-16-13 08:03 AM
  13. mnc76's Avatar
    [QUOTE=HotFix;9714239]

    You are 100% right, they can't change Android enough to break BlackBerry's implementation without breaking existing Android devices and apps. And anything they change BlackBerry can probably adapt to.

    Here is another perspective, they can only change things in future versions because nothing they do now will affect existing apps. This means existing APK installs on BlackBerry 10.2.1.1055 devices will continue to exist they way they are forever. The only time something might break is if someone decides to upgrade their APK install, and then maybe that might break something, but that is the choice of the BlackBerry user and one that can be reversed by going back to the older APK file.

    Google does not have magical powers that can reach into our devices and break existing APKs because the BlackBerry Android emulator currently does not tie into their infrastructure.

    At this point I don't think it's worth responding to any more of his posts as they don't seem to be providing any benefit to the discussion of this thread. :-)

    Posted via CB10
    I agree Also, assuming ART is rolled into AOSP, then BlackBerry should still be able to intercept system calls even though APKs will be precompiled and cached: Since system functions execute in kernel space, the interrupt generated in the switch from user to kernel space should provide the same opportunity for BB10 to intercept the call. Even if future system functions run in user space, BB10 could potentially place these new user space libraries in protected memory so that any attempt to call them would generate a kernel trap and, again, provide an opportunity to intercept the call. But of course, this is all just guesswork and speculation at this point.

    But all tech aside
    -- one must ask whether Google is really SO worried about BlackBerry that they would make such non-standard architectural decisions based on a desire to thwart BB's intercept method. If there is no deal between BlackBerry and Google, then BlackBerry would STILL be without Play Services -- even if their native code hack were to work perfectly with ART. And let's face it: It is Play Services that is the true jewel, NOT the ability to run native code.

    Interesting stuff to ponder though
    12-16-13 08:13 AM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    No...
    Read this first (post 31):
    http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...ml#post8391986

    Then read the article I took this quote from:
    "Google's developers have been working for over 2 years on ART, a replacement for Dalvik"

    Meet ART, Part 1: The New Super-Fast Android Runtime Google Has Been Working On In Secret For Over 2 Years Debuts In KitKat

    Google are making architectural changes to Android.
    Google may be working on ART, but ART is not Google's.
    Introducing ART | Android Developers
    ART will use the same instructions (simplified language here) to call functions than dalvik to ensure retro compatibility (or it wil never be used).
    When kitkat will pop, then the according runtime (ART) will be implemented in BB10.

    Nor Dalvik than ART are android OS. They are runtimes.
    Last edited by Superfly_FR; 12-16-13 at 08:36 AM.
    mnc76 likes this.
    12-16-13 08:15 AM
  15. arrowz's Avatar
    [QUOTE=mnc76;9714497]

    I agree Also, assuming ART is rolled into AOSP, then BlackBerry should still be able to intercept system calls even though APKs will be precompiled and cached: Since system functions execute in kernel space, the interrupt generated in the switch from user to kernel space should provide the same opportunity for BB10 to intercept the call. Even if future system functions run in user space, BB10 could potentially place these new user space libraries in protected memory so that any attempt to call them would generate a kernel trap and, again, provide an opportunity to intercept the call. But of course, this is all just guesswork and speculation at this point.

    But all tech aside
    -- one must ask whether Google is really SO worried about BlackBerry that they would make such non-standard architectural decisions based on a desire to thwart BB's intercept method. If there is no deal between BlackBerry and Google, then BlackBerry would STILL be without Play Services -- even if their native code hack were to work perfectly with ART. And let's face it: It is Play Services that is the true jewel, NOT the ability to run native code.

    Interesting stuff to ponder though
    BlackBerry is device with os, and android is os in many device.
    I think google dont care much about blackberry can make emulator for android as long keep following the rules, pay what it need to paid, and dont make loss for google.
    and google dont want support blackberry because blackberry is not android.
    so if blackberry must create its own emulator that can support google play by any ways.
    and I'm sure it can.
    cause i already see android emulator in pc (genymotion) that support google play, even google dont support emulator for pc.

    Z10STL100-1/10.2.0.1803
    HotFix likes this.
    12-16-13 08:35 AM
  16. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Is there anything that would preclude Blackberry from offering Android Apps in Blackberry World much like Amazon does?
    No, but they won't (as of date) unless APKs are previously converted by developers in BARs.
    The current relative low success is IMHO due to the first implementation of the runtime (pre Jelly Bean) that wasn't matching the current "state of the art".
    Should be much better now, in particular for productivity apps.
    12-16-13 08:39 AM
  17. ofutur's Avatar
    Google does not have magical powers that can reach into our devices and break existing APKs because the BlackBerry Android emulator currently does not tie into their infrastructure.
    They could if the BB Android app includes externally managed Play Services, like on all Android devices. That's the way Google found to fix things without having to wait for manufacturers to release a new OS.
    12-16-13 09:11 AM
  18. HotFix's Avatar
    [QUOTE=ofutur;9714673]
    They could if the BB Android app includes externally manage Play Services, like on all Android devices. That's the way Google found to fix things without having to wait for manufacturers to release a new OS.
    None of the Android emulation built into 10.2.1.1055 natively uses Google Play Services. Some people have written apps that need to be side loaded to tap into the service, but that is not a default configuration for 10.2.1.1055 which is what I was speaking to. So today Google could make whatever changes they want to their service and it would not affect the APK functionality in 10.2.1.1055.

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 09:21 AM
  19. ofutur's Avatar

    None of the Android emulation built into 10.2.1.1055 natively uses Google Play Services. Some people have written apps that need to be side loaded to tap into the service, but that is not a default configuration for 10.2.1.1055 which is what I was speaking to. So today Google could make whatever changes they want to their service and it would not affect the APK functionality in 10.2.1.1055.

    Posted via CB10
    You're right, I took your statement out of context. That paragraph caught my eye
    HotFix likes this.
    12-16-13 09:32 AM
  20. dejanh's Avatar
    Considering the Android runtime (not the full Android OS) is only available in BB10 cos it's a brute force hack and BlackBerry are not members of the OHA, then Google Play wont be coming to BlackBerry.

    EVER.

    Oh, just for the record, Google will break BlackBerry's little hack in an upcoming version of KitKat.
    Here we go again with the ART compiler crap. You don't get it do you, it's a VM. It does not matter whether you are using a JIT compiler or a precompiler. Nothing is "about to break".

    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by dejanh; 12-16-13 at 11:11 PM.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    12-16-13 09:38 AM
  21. yessuz's Avatar
    KitKit is designed to run on lower specs. This means that eventually all the gingerbread devices will be gone.

    ART is a replacement for dalvik. Both are open source and ART is meant to be compatible with Dalvik. BlackBerry has plenty of time to do to ART what it did to Dalvik.

    Posted via CB10
    nope. My motorola xoom, will not have kitkat.

    it's not only specs, it's internal memory as well.
    12-16-13 10:32 AM
  22. eldricho's Avatar
    Can't find an answer to this: is/was B&N a member of OHA?

    If not, and it was able to strike a deal with Google, that seems to indicate that Google can make deals outside OHA.
    Don't see it in the current list and a Google search always shows them and Amazon as an exception when explaining the OHA, so it looks like you are right

    Posted via CB10
    12-16-13 10:34 AM
  23. tickerguy's Avatar
    That's because of 15 USC (Sherman and Clayton Acts) which makes felonious a conspiracy to restrain trade, with real no-BS prison sentences possible.

    An actual agreement to restrain trade among competitors who as a combined set wield market power is per-se unlawful.

    It is for this reason that I have challenged those who claim that Google "can't" (as a matter of some contractual agreement, as opposed to their sole and unilateral choice) allow BlackBerry to incorporate Play Services into BB10 to produce the written document so-stating in a form that can be authenticated as real.

    I don't believe such an agreement exists because the odds of such being found to be a criminal violation of law in the United States is quite high.
    ital1 likes this.
    12-16-13 10:53 AM
  24. cgk's Avatar
    Don't see it in the current list and a Google search always shows them and Amazon as an exception when explaining the OHA, so it looks like you are right

    Posted via CB10
    Pretty sure the people who build it for them are and under the heavily changed GUI it was standard AOSP when they introduced gAPPS

    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk
    eldricho likes this.
    12-16-13 11:51 AM
  25. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Pretty sure the people who build it for them are and under the heavily changed GUI it was standard AOSP when they introduced gAPPS

    Sent from my XT890 using Tapatalk
    There's an angle I hadn't considered. Good thinking.
    12-16-13 12:34 PM
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