06-24-18 10:40 AM
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tools
  1. clie610's Avatar
    The danger of this is that you will wear out your device memory
    Usually a memory chip/SD/hard drive has a limited number of formats before it starts having faulty sectors
    This will increase the rate of reaching this point
    Every hardware has its life time, related to the number of formats that might wear out this Nand Flash can use this reference What is NAND flash wear-out? - Definition from WhatIs.com

    If let say we have 500 OS updates during the phone usage time multiplied by 5 load reload because we trying to find out the best result of the loads, only ended up with 2,500 OS erases process which is stll under the wear out time of the Nand Flash
    Sator and HarryDragon like this.
    02-25-14 09:18 PM
  2. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    I don't think your statement is ethical considering you haven't proved it and at the same time giving misleading info as if this tool is surely going to brick everybody's phone.
    I never said it would brick everybody's phone. Sheesh.
    Can't a guy ask question before being shot?
    02-25-14 09:31 PM
  3. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Before you go too far only by assumption basis, at least you can try to read the readme information that came with this tool.
    Can't read the readme cos I don't have the tool
    02-25-14 09:32 PM
  4. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    The danger of this is that you will wear out your device memory
    Usually a memory chip/SD/hard drive has a limited number of formats before it starts having faulty sectors
    This will increase the rate of reaching this point
    I'm wondering if BlackBerry have enabled Trim in BB10.
    02-25-14 09:33 PM
  5. HarryDragon's Avatar
    Can't read the readme cos I don't have the tool
    What tools do you need? All tools are in the forum. Including this one.

    Posted via CB10
    02-25-14 10:13 PM
  6. thurask's Avatar
    I'm wondering if BlackBerry have enabled Trim in BB10.
    Maybe?
    02-25-14 10:16 PM
  7. clie610's Avatar
    Can't read the readme cos I don't have the tool
    Have you read the first post? it is clearly mentioned that the readme will be popped up once you installed the tool
    intprd04 and deezy87 like this.
    02-25-14 11:03 PM
  8. clie610's Avatar
    Well... let's see who bricks their BlackBerry first
    I never said it would brick everybody's phone. Sheesh.
    Can't a guy ask question before being shot?
    I'm sorry, did you ask any question?
    02-25-14 11:07 PM
  9. R_Lie24's Avatar
    Thanks mastah

    Posted via CB10
    02-26-14 12:04 AM
  10. xsacha's Avatar
    We've tested this before hand and found that it help us not to face any bugs other than that came from the OSes itself, and wants to share it with everybody.

    We've tried several methods, wipe once, twice, etc times and found that to wipe 5 times gives us best result so far, and have involved numbers of people to try this method before posting this on CB.
    As someone who has personally never had to wipe (only done it for tests) when switching OSes via an autoloader and never experienced any issues in the process, I am curious as to what the benefits of wiping 5 times were in your testing.

    Theoretically, a nuke -a will remove everything from the device. This includes things that would be removed by the autoloader anyway, such as the previous OS. It also includes things that perhaps you wouldn't want to remove, like the device password and some NVRam settings.

    So are you suggesting that the nuke is failing or not removing something? Then, in addition, the first through to fourth wipes are also not removing everything? Do the commands have a high failure rate and you need to repeat them before one gets through? I'm not sure of the logic in that.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    02-26-14 01:14 AM
  11. clie610's Avatar
    As someone who has personally never had to wipe (only done it for tests) when switching OSes via an autoloader and never experienced any issues in the process, I am curious as to what the benefits of wiping 5 times were in your testing.

    Theoretically, a nuke -a will remove everything from the device. This includes things that would be removed by the autoloader anyway, such as the previous OS. It also includes things that perhaps you wouldn't want to remove, like the device password and some NVRam settings.

    So are you suggesting that the nuke is failing or not removing something? Then, in addition, the first through to fourth wipes are also not removing everything? Do the commands have a high failure rate and you need to repeat them before one gets through? I'm not sure of the logic in that.

    "Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results."
    Technically we don't have any tools nor diagnostic devices to provide explanation the way you want it.
    On the other hand we also never suggesting anything about what failed or not failed during the process.
    What we shared is based on the result of our trial when our testers did only once, threes or five times of wipes after nuke step (without -a), and the final result that we found was that wiping 5 times after nuke giving the best result so far.

    You don't have to agree on what we have eventhough we appreciate your Sachesi tool that helped us in extracting signed files, built autoloaders and extracting apps from OS, because we tried your Sachesi tool.

    If then you want to make comments without trying it first, I suppose it's called assumption, eventhough no one of us forced you to use SIC tool like you never forced us using Sachesi. Your last line I found it again unethical questioning our sanity or not while you yourself mentioned that you never personnaly had to wipe your device.

    The bottom line is like we have repeated again and again, our objective is to share what we developed to everybody including you. No force applies here to whether you choose to using it or not. And again we only brave enough to share this tool only after we tested it to numbers of our testers and received their appreciation after seeing performance of their devices.

    I hope this can make clear of our purpose to this thread.
    HarryDragon, Uzi, jevinzac and 2 others like this.
    02-26-14 01:44 AM
  12. clie610's Avatar
    then it might go up to 100,000 format cycles
    02-26-14 07:09 AM
  13. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    Have you read the first post? it is clearly mentioned that the readme will be popped up once you installed the tool
    Yes, and my point was I don't have the tool.

    It's not something I plan on installing therefore I can't read the readme.
    02-26-14 08:49 AM
  14. Legal Eagle's Avatar
    That is for us to know aand you to find out lol

    Kick @$$ job brother, just waiting for iking now and our chef Otto for some madness to happen soon.

    BerryLicious rises!? Hahahahah

    I'll say it for the road, good job mastah *hail*

    Posted via CB10
    BerryLicious rises ?

    It's never fallen for those of us on OS7 !!!

    Grand Master Sator keeps us all very happy in Bold 9900 Land !!!!
    Sator, Uzi, clie610 and 5 others like this.
    02-26-14 09:33 AM
  15. clie610's Avatar
    Yes, and my point was I don't have the tool.

    It's not something I plan on installing therefore I can't read the readme.
    I/we are more than happy to go over any problem occurred when somebody using or trying to know this tool or to discuss how the tool works, and I don't get what do you want by making several posts in this thread that not even related between each of your post while at the end you actually not interested to find out or go through the tool itself.

    For somebody who has made thousands of postings in this forum, you really amused me...sorry to say that but that's the reality
    intprd04 likes this.
    02-26-14 09:42 AM
  16. jonduran86's Avatar
    Thanks for the tool mastah. Will definitely look into it and see if it benefits me
    clie610, zocster and deezy87 like this.
    02-26-14 09:56 AM
  17. Grumblegrumble's Avatar
    Yes, and my point was I don't have the tool.

    It's not something I plan on installing therefore I can't read the readme.
    To be honest, you really are just badgering these guys here, If you dont like the idea, dont use it plain n simple. I am not saying your concerns are not legit, though if you are not even willing to put in the effort to download and read a simple text file. Why should these guys put in the extra effort? Give n take

    Personally, I am very greatful we have a community here that is willing to help at all. Thank you to everyone here who has put in their own time to make these tools possible.

    once again Thank you CLE, mastah, thurask, Darcy, anyone else who has contributed to driving BB10 forward to what it is today.
    clie610, deezy87, zocster and 8 others like this.
    02-26-14 09:57 AM
  18. R_Lie24's Avatar
    Yes, and my point was I don't have the tool.

    It's not something I plan on installing therefore I can't read the readme.
    If not, you try to install it, you are trying to use and if not satisfied, you convey your dissatisfaction

    Posted via CB10
    clie610 likes this.
    02-26-14 10:04 AM
  19. deezy87's Avatar
    BerryLicious rises ?

    It's never fallen for those of us on OS7 !!!

    Grand Master Sator keeps us all very happy in Bold 9900 Land !!!!
    The Q20 rises for folks like you lol
    Legal Eagle and maxx71 like this.
    02-26-14 10:58 AM
  20. Legal Eagle's Avatar
    The Q20 rises for folks like you lol
    Hey Sharma, you might just be right, buttons and trackpad might seriously tempt me to give up my beloved 9900 and Hybrids.

    Have to wait and see what it looks like and how the specs are, but it sure has piqued my interest.
    zocster, flyingsolid and maxx71 like this.
    02-26-14 11:15 AM
  21. deezy87's Avatar
    How do you know the beloved BerryLicious team isn't working on pumping out REAL BlackBerry 10 OS hybrids?

    Let's start a petition lol
    02-26-14 11:45 AM
  22. Omnitech's Avatar
    This method hasn't been sanctioned by BlackBerry AFAIK, therefore I'll use the method they've recommended.

    If you're worried that you aren't using an "officially sanctioned" method of updating your device, then I hope you're not using an autoloader to load an OS, because BlackBerry does not support the usage of that INTERNAL tool by non-BlackBerry staff either.

    Nor do they officially sanction or support the usage of 3rd-party tools like Sachesi, Darcy's Tools, Chrome plugins, Dingleberry, BBHTool, vnBB10, SideSwype, etc etc. Not to mention this script.
    Foppa_21, Sator, maxx71 and 5 others like this.
    02-26-14 12:01 PM
  23. Omnitech's Avatar
    The danger of this is that you will wear out your device memory
    Usually a memory chip/SD/hard drive has a limited number of formats before it starts having faulty sectors
    This will increase the rate of reaching this point

    Hard drives have no such issue.

    NAND (ie popularly named Flash) memory does have this issue, it has a finite write-cycle lifetime.

    And formats are not what are going to exacerbate it, as they do not write all blocks on the storage device.

    Security wipes, on the other hand, do. At least in theory. It depends on the flash controller. If you are using an SSD with hardware encryption, you can in effect do a "security wipe" simply by erasing the encryption key.

    I'm curious about his assertion that a security wipe takes longer when apps are still installed. If that's true, then a security wipe is not actually re-writing all blocks on the storage, only "used blocks".

    But NAND is not like a hard drive: you don't necessarily have to re-write all the blocks on the device to make the data unreadable or unrecoverable. Because AFAIK, you do not know precisely what cell you are actually writing when you say "write block 12345678", that is determined on the fly by the Flash controller.
    Sator and NinjaB like this.
    02-26-14 12:07 PM
  24. Grumblegrumble's Avatar
    Hard drives have no such issue.

    NAND (ie popularly named Flash) memory does have this issue, it has a finite write-cycle lifetime.

    And formats are not what are going to exacerbate it, as they do not write all blocks on the storage device.

    Security wipes, on the other hand, do. At least in theory. It depends on the flash controller. If you are using an SSD with hardware encryption, you can in effect do a "security wipe" simply by erasing the encryption key.

    I'm curious about his assertion that a security wipe takes longer when apps are still installed. If that's true, then a security wipe is not actually re-writing all blocks on the storage, only "used blocks".

    But NAND is not like a hard drive: you don't necessarily have to re-write all the blocks on the device to make the data unreadable or unrecoverable. Because AFAIK, you do not know precisely what cell you are actually writing when you say "write block 12345678", that is determined on the fly by the Flash controller.

    Not to mention, the estimated write cycles on NAND flash will more than likely exceed the life of your phone.

    Edit: The life YOU OWN your phone!
    Last edited by Grumblegrumble; 02-26-14 at 03:00 PM.
    Sator and tdyhedge like this.
    02-26-14 12:15 PM
  25. clie610's Avatar
    ................ I'm curious about his assertion that a security wipe takes longer when apps are still installed. If that's true, then a security wipe is not actually re-writing all blocks on the storage, only "used blocks". ..............
    .
    That's the result that we got when we do security wipe, it took longer time when all apps that can be uninstalled still there compared when uninstalled. The difference in most cases were quite significant 20-30 minutes secwipe time (uninstalled apps) vs 1-3hrs (depend on the apps installed, saved games might related with it)
    Sator, HarryDragon and Sean CueTen like this.
    02-26-14 06:39 PM
665 12345 ...

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