06-24-14 11:27 AM
79 1234
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  1. Playground Legend 31Third's Avatar
    Now what does that say for a company, BlackBerry! if they can use an earlier android runtime optimized to run just as good if not better to the latest kit kat version! Go BlackBerry! now that showing the world the who's who in this smartphone business!

    Sent by my QNX powered Z10
    05-18-14 01:05 PM
  2. vincentchandra's Avatar
    Considering the Nexus 4 has twice the processing power, thats pretty good that the Z30 only lags behind a little bit for most apps (since most apps likely use single thread only). While games might run twice as fast on Nexus 4 as games might tend to use more cores.
    The nexus 4 does'nt have twice the processing power of the z30, it's not the same core so their efficiency is not comparable

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 02:48 PM
  3. Andrew4life's Avatar
    The nexus 4 does'nt have twice the processing power of the z30, it's not the same core so their efficiency is not comparable

    Posted via CB10

    Google Nexus 4 has a 1.5GHz quad-core Snapdragon S4 Pro with

    Z30 has a Dual Core 1.7 GHz Qualcomm MSM8960T Pro

    Ignoring everything else, and purely for maximum number of bit clocks processed:
    Nexus 4 = 1.5G x 4 = 6G
    Z30 = 1.7G x 2 = 3.4G

    So approximately twice the processing power. It might be 1.5 times, it might be 2.5 times. But it's about 2x.

    Note that I also didn't say twice the processing speed since that would depend on single or multithreaded applications.
    05-18-14 06:11 PM
  4. StutterStep's Avatar
    Would be interesting to do this test again on a Moto X since they have the same cpu and gpu. Hoping for a quad core touch screen device from BB soon.
    Dave Bourque likes this.
    05-18-14 07:29 PM
  5. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Would be interesting to do this test again on a Moto X since they have the same cpu and gpu. Hoping for a quad core touch screen device from BB soon.
    Yea that would be a better comparison. Samsung S3 vs Z10 too.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    05-18-14 07:31 PM
  6. PALeafs67's Avatar
    For what all BlackBerry has gone through the past year and a bit this is a great start !nice video bud, us blackberry supporters need more comparisons done like this to enhance our interest, I'm a believer things are only going to get better with time for sure.

    My extra extraordinary Z30
    PatrickMJS likes this.
    05-18-14 07:34 PM
  7. Thunderbuck's Avatar
    It would be really great, if they provide Google services .!!!!

    Posted via CB10
    They would have to get Google's agreement to do that. Not likely.
    05-18-14 11:08 PM
  8. gng11's Avatar
    Z30 is not that far off. Gives Android a run for its money in some respects.
    05-19-14 04:47 AM
  9. kg4icg's Avatar
    Here is something to think about that the op didn't take into account. KitKat is 4.4 running the new ARTS mode while in 10.3 is running 4.3 runtime which is Jellybean and is using Delvak. Which has been already shown that ARTS is faster at starting apps than Delvak. So what you have shown would go the same for 2 different Android devices, 1 running KitKat, the other running Jellybean.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 08:59 AM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    That's a good thought but I just checked and Dalvik is being used, not ART.

    Let's see how things progress.

    I think that the runtime in 10.3 when released will be good enough for most people. It's already probably good enough in this beta in terms of compatibility and speed.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 09:24 AM
  11. lawguyman's Avatar
    Also, although I'm not really sure how the Android runtime works, presumably BlackBerry isn't using Dalvik at all. It is using its own runtime. I may be wrong about this.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 09:49 AM
  12. ofutur's Avatar
    Also, although I'm not really sure how the Android runtime works, presumably BlackBerry isn't using Dalvik at all. It is using its own runtime. I may be wrong about this.

    Posted via CB10
    It's using Dalvik with some clever wizardry:
    Meet the BlackBerry wizardry that created its 'better Android than Android' • The Register
    05-19-14 09:52 AM
  13. anon1727506's Avatar
    It's great that the BB10 Android Runtime performs so well in this test!

    That said, there are a large percentage of apps that don't work - either due to Google Services, or the issues with databases and downloads. That alone is enough to stop most people from choosing a BlackBerry. I've even read a few post where people have contacted developers about issues they are having, they of course get a device is not supported reply. Now maybe the developer just ignores these, maybe they look at trying to support BB10 devices, or maybe they contact Google and tell them to put a stop to this.... One way that Google is helping developers cut down of Piracy (and unofficial downloads via 3rd party stores) is via Google Play - Application Licensing. This can be used for paid and free apps. So the question becomes... how long will Android Apps remain open and accessible to the BlackBerry Android Player with out some kind of agreement. Which has been pretty well covered - isn't going to happen as.

    Apps are important, access the the major Apps is necessary to the success of the BB10 Platform. I uses both SNAP, and Amazon Store.... but what I think we need is for BlackBerry World to be our source for Apps! Because while I might go through some extrea steps, and put up with Candy Crush, DirecTV and My Verizon and other apps not working. I'm not sure the average consumer will.
    05-19-14 10:10 AM
  14. lawguyman's Avatar
    I guess that means that BlackBerry would have a lot of additional work to do if it wanted to switch over to ART, or would it just be plug and play?

    If ART can be swapped out for Dalvik in an Android device, perhaps the same is true for BlackBerry.



    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 10:11 AM
  15. lawguyman's Avatar
    It's great that the BB10 Android Runtime performs so well in this test!

    That said, there are a large percentage of apps that don't work - either due to Google Services, or the issues with databases and downloads. That alone is enough to stop most people from choosing a BlackBerry. I've even read a few post where people have contacted developers about issues they are having, they of course get a device is not supported reply. Now maybe the developer just ignores these, maybe they look at trying to support BB10 devices, or maybe they contact Google and tell them to put a stop to this.... One way that Google is helping developers cut down of Piracy (and unofficial downloads via 3rd party stores) is via Google Play - Application Licensing. This can be used for paid and free apps. So the question becomes... how long will Android Apps remain open and accessible to the BlackBerry Android Player with out some kind of agreement. Which has been pretty well covered - isn't going to happen as.

    Apps are important, access the the major Apps is necessary to the success of the BB10 Platform. I uses both SNAP, and Amazon Store.... but what I think we need is for BlackBerry World to be our source for Apps! Because while I might go through some extrea steps, and put up with Candy Crush, DirecTV and My Verizon and other apps not working. I'm not sure the average consumer will.
    Play is not a long term viable option for the reasons you list. Amazon stuff works just fine though, downloads and all. Amazon apps don't rely on Google services.



    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 10:15 AM
  16. lawguyman's Avatar


    Here is a comparison between the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 for app opening times. There is basically no difference at all. So, going forward, I may just use a Nexus 5 when comparing to future versions of the runtime.

    Posted via CB10
    PatrickMJS likes this.
    05-19-14 11:17 AM
  17. Ment's Avatar
    Here is something to think about that the op didn't take into account. KitKat is 4.4 running the new ARTS mode while in 10.3 is running 4.3 runtime which is Jellybean and is using Delvak. Which has been already shown that ARTS is faster at starting apps than Delvak. So what you have shown would go the same for 2 different Android devices, 1 running KitKat, the other running Jellybean.

    Posted via CB10
    ART is a developer option so its not turn on by default. Probably Android 5.X will have ART turned on.



    Here is a comparison between the Nexus 4 and Nexus 5 for app opening times. There is basically no difference at all. So, going forward, I may just use a Nexus 5 when comparing to future versions of the runtime.

    Posted via CB10
    Opening apps is not hugely processor intensive and doesn't use quad core so once you get at a certain level ie Nex4, greater CPU horsepower will make little difference. I would expect the same with the Nex4 vs Samsung S5.
    05-19-14 12:42 PM
  18. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    ART is a developer option so its not turn on by default. Probably Android 5.X will have ART turned on.



    Opening apps is not hugely processor intensive and doesn't use quad core so once you get at a certain level ie Nex4, greater CPU horsepower will make little difference. I would expect the same with the Nex4 vs Samsung S5.
    So essentially the Z30 running native android would probably open at the same speeds as Nexus 4/5. Software is the obstacle.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    05-19-14 12:47 PM
  19. Ment's Avatar
    So essentially the Z30 running native android would probably open at the same speeds as Nexus 4/5. Software is the obstacle.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    Yes its still a software issue, the Z30 is actually slightly faster for the 1-2 cores used for opening apps. If you were able to flash an Android rom to the Z30 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in normal usage, perhaps in some games that use quadcore the Nex4 would be faster. Z30 would trash the Nex4 in battery tho it has much more juice.
    05-19-14 12:54 PM
  20. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    Yes its still a software issue, the Z30 is actually slightly faster for the 1-2 cores used for opening apps. If you were able to flash an Android rom to the Z30 you wouldn't be able to tell the difference in normal usage, perhaps in some games that use quadcore the Nex4 would be faster. Z30 would trash the Nex4 in battery tho it has much more juice.
    Makes perfect sense. It's great to see improvements on the software front. Eventually we might reach parity in performance and compatibility.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.2141
    05-19-14 01:07 PM
  21. vincentchandra's Avatar
    Google Nexus 4 has a 1.5GHz quad-core Snapdragon S4 Pro with

    Z30 has a Dual Core 1.7 GHz Qualcomm MSM8960T Pro

    Ignoring everything else, and purely for maximum number of bit clocks processed:
    Nexus 4 = 1.5G x 4 = 6G
    Z30 = 1.7G x 2 = 3.4G

    So approximately twice the processing power. It might be 1.5 times, it might be 2.5 times. But it's about 2x.

    Note that I also didn't say twice the processing speed since that would depend on single or multithreaded applications.

    But you can't ignore everything else, the Snapdragon of the z30 have krait 300 cores whereas the nexus 4's Snapdragon have krait 200 core. It means that for the same clock speed, a core of the z30 is way faster (40% more ipc for the z30 if I remember well). So your calculation are wrong.. you have to had 40% more ipc , and it bring the thing to 4.76G vs 6G for the nexus 4, so the nexus 4 is only like 20% faster.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 01:48 PM
  22. ofutur's Avatar
    ART should actually simplify things for BlackBerry as apps are compiled at install time, so they will use the right registers, libraries and optimisation flags instead of having to be mapped like they are now.

    And Android apps biggest problem, after the missing GFS and dev support, has to be the way notifications are implemented. The way it doesn't integrate that well into the Hub for all installed apps and the fact that we can't take actions straight from the Hub. Those messages are not emails and each one should be dynamically resized and be interactive, just like the notification drawer works on Android. It's still early days and things have improved over 10.2.1 which is only good for run once apps, but let's hope they keep working on integration.

    "Snap" is the best stop-gap solution for Android apps while we wait for BlackBerry to get its act together...
    05-19-14 06:36 PM
  23. Arabianhorse's Avatar
    ART should actually simplify things for BlackBerry as apps are compiled at install time, so they will use the right registers, libraries and optimisation flags instead of having to be mapped like they are now.

    And Android apps biggest problem, after the missing GFS and dev support, has to be the way notifications are implemented. The way it doesn't integrate that well into the Hub for all installed apps and the fact that we can't take actions straight from the Hub. Those messages are not emails and each one should be dynamically resized and be interactive, just like the notification drawer works on Android. It's still early days and things have improved over 10.2.1 which is only good for run once apps, but let's hope they keep working on integration.

    "Snap" is the best stop-gap solution for Android apps while we wait for BlackBerry to get its act together...
    I have been using 1Mobile Market and receive emails for android updates. So far all have worked.
    This may be another option for Android app installs and updates.
    05-19-14 10:14 PM
  24. NG888's Avatar
    JC recently in an interview with the Wall Street Journal states that BB10 supports 98% of Android Apps.

    ?Android?s strength isn?t really the quality of the phone, which BlackBerry has. BlackBerry phones are well put together. We have a great BlackBerry Messenger experience, a great operating system. And it?s the most secure phone. Secure not only in data, but in personal identity. Younger consumers love all kinds of apps, and BlackBerry runs 98% of all the Android apps. All BlackBerry die-hards know they can run Android apps."

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 10:36 PM
  25. lawguyman's Avatar
    JC recently in an interview with the Wall Street Journal states that BB10 supports 98% of Android Apps.

    ?Android?s strength isn?t really the quality of the phone, which BlackBerry has. BlackBerry phones are well put together. We have a great BlackBerry Messenger experience, a great operating system. And it?s the most secure phone. Secure not only in data, but in personal identity. Younger consumers love all kinds of apps, and BlackBerry runs 98% of all the Android apps. All BlackBerry die-hards know they can run Android apps."

    Posted via CB10
    I guess he is not counting apps like active wall papers?

    Otherwise, the claim is credible enough if he is talking about an unreleased OS.

    This kind of talk seems premature without 10.3 being complete and released and without an easy way for users to get apps without installing an app store themselves or side loading Snap.

    Posted via CB10
    05-20-14 05:07 AM
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