02-18-14 05:10 AM
72 123
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  1. Omnitech's Avatar
    Oh, you made a picture that says your piece. You are so smart.

    Nowhere did I say to do it while data is churning. I choose to do it, because while there are background processes running, BB10 doesn't use any sort of page file.

    So take your and your condescending explanations and shove them up your urethra.

    There was no condescension intended or implied, though when people make incorrect sweeping generalizations that can cause other people problems I'm not too much a fan of that. I tend to correct them, as I did here.

    Whereas the comment you made in response was just downright nasty.

    There are some cases where a battery pull could be justified - in particular if the device does not respond to a long press on the power button.

    On the other hand, BlackBerry themselves must think that to be an awfully unusual scenario since none of their recent hardware devices have a removable battery anyway.

    Blackberry users got used to battery pulls on LegacyOS because LegacyOS devices were very prone to lockups and freezes, and they did not have a method of hard resetting the device with the power button. (If you "powered down" a LegacyOS device, all it did was put the OS into what you might call "deep sleep mode." Probably because booting a LegacyOS device often took an eternity.)
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-16-14 08:52 PM
  2. Omnitech's Avatar
    All I can do is ROTFLMAO - After shutting down my laptop and phone I occasionally pull the battery. What is ungraceful is to pull the plug while there are active processes running.

    I don't know who you are agreeing or disagreeing with but pulling a battery or a power plug after the OS is already shutdown is a completely different matter.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-16-14 08:53 PM
  3. DarcyTallGuy's Avatar
    Bear in mind that when you do an OS update, the files are written to a "temp / staging" area of the filesystem, not the normal "resident" location.

    The reason is if something goes wrong with the OS or if it is incompatible and incapable of booting, etc - it will automatically revert back to the previous OS. After a few normal restarts (I believe), it will move the new OS to the "resident" location, and at that point your storage usage will go down because there aren't basically 2 different OS's sitting on the device storage.

    (Though I must admit, 5GB still sounds excessive, not sure exactly why it is that large.)

    xsacha and DarcyTallGuy know more about the specific details of that "staging area" mechanism than I do.
    Actually there's 2 permanent partitions for both os and. Radio. They're always there so don't affect your storage in any way.

    When you upgrade via bar file you do need some temp storage in your user space where the phone stores the OS (it has to save the bar files somewhere) before flashing it to one of the OS partitions. But that's just for the duration of the installation. If you flash via autoloader you don't need that extra space on the user partition since it loads directly from the PC to the OS/radio partition.

    Beyond that it's hard to figure out the exact behaviour of those Partitions. Presumably when upgrading with bar files it will flash to the partition not currently in use then flag that to be the boot partition on next reboot. It's hard to flash over the current os if it's in use.

    The autoloader can flash to either partition, since neither is in use at the time. Some testing would be needed to determine that but there's no discernible benefit to knowing how that process works.

    Posted via CB10
    Omnitech, Superfly_FR and toobs623 like this.
    02-16-14 09:27 PM
  4. QWKSNKE's Avatar


    I don't think so.

    Cutting power on a device running an operating system that has continuously running background processes that prefer to be terminated gracefully rather than just have the "rug pulled out from under them" is almost always a BAD idea.

    The only time you should pull power on a device like that is if there are absolutely no other ways to restart it - ie it does not respond to the power button.


    Attachment 248589
    I would hope that no one would pull the battery without shutting the device down first

    STL-4. 10.2.1.2141 w/ 1259 clock
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-16-14 09:50 PM
  5. BlackBerryMalaysia's Avatar
    I would hope that no one would pull the battery without shutting the device down first

    STL-4. 10.2.1.2141 w/ 1259 clock
    sometime if the battery's running low, i just simply open it to change with another battery. haha
    02-16-14 10:08 PM
  6. Omnitech's Avatar
    sometime if the battery's running low, i just simply open it to change with another battery. haha

    Well some people smoke cigarettes and drink alcohol until their livers fail, too.
    02-16-14 11:25 PM
  7. Elite1's Avatar
    Okay let's all take a deep breath and play nice!

    Tons of great posts in this thread. Let's not derail it with any petty bickering. The Golden Rule applies.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-17-14 01:42 AM
  8. Elite1's Avatar
    I thought battery pull is dangerous for bb10?? Smh
    Device reset is to BB10 what a battery pull is to legacy BBOS.

    Either hold down top button until red LED flashes, or hold down both Volume Up & Down keys until you see the blue startup icon. (Doesn't really need to be for that long, but doesn't hurt either.)

    Maybe some of the more knowledgeable here can explain any difference between the 2 methods. The red LED doesn't flash with the Volume keys method anymore, and I've heard some say this indicates a "less thorough" reset because the red LED indicates the power fully cycled off & on.
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-17-14 01:48 AM
  9. Omnitech's Avatar
    Either hold down top button until red LED flashes, or hold down both Volume Up & Down keys until you see the blue startup icon. (Doesn't really need to be for that long, but doesn't hurt either.)

    Maybe some of the more knowledgeable here can explain any difference between the 2 methods. The red LED doesn't flash with the Volume keys method anymore, and I've heard some say this indicates a "less thorough" reset because the red LED indicates the power fully cycled off & on.

    I consider a "hard reset" to be one of the following:

    1. Hold power button about 10 seconds and black screen appears, the device will completely power down after ~30 seconds. Wait 30 more seconds after last screen display disappears, hold power button to power up. (Red LED will appear momentarily)
    2. Hold both volume buttons down about 10 seconds until device reboots.
    3. Pull battery (last resort if power button is unresponsive)



    Method #2 is reputedly favored by Blackberry development staff.

    Method #1 is guaranteed to be a "hard reset" because the device completely powers down. This is easy to verify because the battery charging behaviour is completely different when the device is powered-off. About 10 seconds or so after plugging in a charger, you will get the "slow throbbing yellow LED" combined with a "charging electric bolt" on the screen initially. That indicates the device is charging while powered off. (The LED will turn green when fully charged.)

    I consider a "soft reset" to be the following:

    • Hold power button for about 3 seconds until menu appears, then touch "Restart" button on lower right.



    Among other things, I do not believe a "soft reset" re-initializes the Android runtime. In my past testing, you will find after a "hard reset" that it takes a minute or two for the Android runtime to initialize upon the first launch of an Android app, while this happens faster if you did a "soft reset".

    Unfortunately, BlackBerry's own knowledgebase articles seem to contradict themselves on some of these things. Sigh.
    Superfly_FR and anon1727506 like this.
    02-17-14 02:37 AM
  10. RADEoN1337's Avatar
    Omni, I took note of the (C) on your lame image. I'm going to email blackberry and ask them if they know that you put a copyright claim in on something that contains their design, logo, and brand.
    02-17-14 07:19 AM
  11. eaburger's Avatar
    With Sachesi I do not have any problems.

    In my case I did the upgrade to 10.2.1.537 the first day that the OS upgrade was released (officialy), and the this friday (for a little of distraction for all the things that are ocurring in my country, hoppefully will finish in a pacefull way) I made the upgrade to 10.2.1.2141 to my Z10 (STL100-2) and the Z10 of my wife.

    The bouth work perfectly, the only thing is after the update you need to make a couple of Hard Reset (using the volume up and down trick) and them let the phone work for an hour, becuase I think the OS is updating all the data bases, this because the "System" and the "PIM Services" take a lot of CPU, but them they return to the normal level of 10% for System and practically Inactive for PIM Services.

    Really Sachesi is a powerfull tool for those BB user that had a carrier that release later OS Update (Digitel on Venezuela).

    Regards,
    02-17-14 07:37 AM
  12. bluetroll's Avatar
    Does anyone have the 2142 radio autoloader for the Z30?

    I upgraded to 2141with Sachesi, but it didn't change the radio file.

    Thanks!

    Posted via CB10
    02-17-14 08:00 AM
  13. pcuser's Avatar
    Does anyone have the 2142 radio autoloader for the Z30?
    Try the method here.

    I upgraded to 2141with Sachesi, but it didn't change the radio file.
    Had you turned on Airplane Mode before you upgraded?
    bluetroll likes this.
    02-17-14 08:33 AM
  14. Superfly_FR's Avatar
    Omni, I took note of the (C) on your lame image. I'm going to email blackberry and ask them if they know that you put a copyright claim in on something that contains their design, logo, and brand.
    ???? Do you realize some here are trying to find a solution to a problem you're - AFAIK - the only one to have ?
    I personnaly spent 1hr+ to check on my side what could be wrong (appears that your initial DL was either corrupt or simply the wrong one BTW) and now this ?
    I'm not sure how you can expect anyone to help with such a [self censored, use what you want] attitude.

    If I'm wrong, and misread, sorry.
    If I'm not, let's close this thread and move on.
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-17-14 08:58 AM
  15. FCSC's Avatar
    Nowhere did I say to do it while data is churning.
    except for you know, right here: "Cutting power on occasion to any electronic with a capacitor that is constantly on is never a bad idea."

    No where in that post did you say that anything about data, you left it completely out. So someone who is reading it, and didn't know any better, wouldn't think it would be bad to cut the power while data was churning.

    It's a forum, people come here for advice and to learn, putting out incomplete statements doesn't help the community. Your sour attitude to those who are trying to help is pretty juvenile as well.
    Omnitech likes this.
    02-17-14 10:29 AM
  16. bluetroll's Avatar
    Try the method here.


    Had you turned on Airplane Mode before you upgraded?
    yeah, i left airplane mode on. you think that was the problem?

    I try to sideload the 2142 radio .bar and i'm getting a failure 500 error or something like that.

    i came across that post earlier, but I was dumb and didn't read the part about unzipping the .bar to get to the signed.

    anyway, i've created the autoloader for the z30 2142 radio. i'm a little busy right now, but I will try running this later. I've gotta do a backup first too!
    02-17-14 11:07 AM
  17. NinjaB's Avatar
    Sorry, that's wrong. You don't get any of the updated app files (sys.pim.*, camera, android, etc). You MUST load them separately along with the radio/os bar files (doesn't matter if they're the debrick or upgrade ones) if doing it non-destructively.



    Posted via CB10
    ok I've installed several leaks before but now you have me concerned I didn't do it right... cuz I never load anything "separetely" yet AFAIK I still have been able to access to the new features that are supposed to be there.. but I guess I wouldn't really know if a feature is missing if I never had it lol...

    what I normally do is select upgrade method on Sachesi and it gives me all hundred-something bar files instead of the just two for radio & os... then for simplicity I just install all of them instead of going through and extracting out the new bars...

    so first question, does this sound like a legit process?

    second question, is there a way to tell if you have just updated the radio/os, but not all the other app files? aside from knowing or having to look up the actual version # for each bar file...
    02-17-14 03:32 PM
  18. danp2000's Avatar
    second question, is there a way to tell if you have just updated the radio/os, but not all the other app files? aside from knowing or having to look up the actual version # for each bar file...
    I'd like to know the answer to this as well. This is my first time upgrading using Sachesi, which, BTW, is an awesome piece of kit for us BB10 users.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-17-14 03:39 PM
  19. DarcyTallGuy's Avatar
    ok I've installed several leaks before but now you have me concerned I didn't do it right... cuz I never load anything "separetely" yet AFAIK I still have been able to access to the new features that are supposed to be there.. but I guess I wouldn't really know if a feature is missing if I never had it lol...

    what I normally do is select upgrade method on Sachesi and it gives me all hundred-something bar files instead of the just two for radio & os... then for simplicity I just install all of them instead of going through and extracting out the new bars...

    so first question, does this sound like a legit process?

    second question, is there a way to tell if you have just updated the radio/os, but not all the other app files? aside from knowing or having to look up the actual version # for each bar file...
    If you use the upgrade process then you're good. That's the easiest and safest way.

    The common misconception though is that you can do it all just by loading the 2 debrick bar files. And that just doesn't work. Doing an upgrade via bar files requires more than just the 2 bar files to do it right.

    So keep doing it with the upgrade process with the 150+ bar files and you won't go wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    Superfly_FR, Omnitech and NinjaB like this.
    02-17-14 04:26 PM
  20. pcuser's Avatar
    yeah, i left airplane mode on. you think that was the problem?
    I did the same in this recent upgrade. I believe turning the Airplane Mode on is being prudent. We don't want something to come in through the radio (calls, e-mails, etc.) during the process and screw things up, do we? Especially, considering the long process (154 files + Sachesi) lasted close to 1.5 hours in my case.

    Now, here's the irony. I noted what masterscarhead1 said about Airplane Mode in message #28. I am thinking that, perhaps, when the phone restarted by itself, it was supposed to check something with the carrier/BB (?); but because the phone was off the air, it couldn't do so to complete the upgrade process (?).

    I had been on an official 537. The upgrade process was uneventful. After the process, however, my Software Release and Radio Version numbers were still showing 537 and 1926, respectively. Only the OS became 2141. It's was only after I autoloaded the 2142 radio file that they became 2102 and 2142.

    Side note: I had forgotten to turn the battery app off, and its fully-charged alert went off during the long upgrade process. For those who don't immediately get the idea, the USB cable plugged to the computer was also charging the phone. Good thing the alert window was able to come on top for me to silence it. Otherwise, I would have to endure the alert tone until the end of the upgrade process. Did pulling the cable cross your mind for a split second?



    I try to sideload the 2142 radio .bar and i'm getting a failure 500 error or something like that.
    That's what happened to me before. Thurask then made an autoloader for me. I learned to make one myself this time.
    02-17-14 06:11 PM
  21. Omnitech's Avatar
    The bouth work perfectly, the only thing is after the update you need to make a couple of Hard Reset (using the volume up and down trick) and them let the phone work for an hour, becuase I think the OS is updating all the data bases, this because the "System" and the "PIM Services" take a lot of CPU, but them they return to the normal level of 10% for System and practically Inactive for PIM Services.

    Correct, sometimes people have found after installing a new OS (particularly using an autoloader, but could happen with non-destructive update too) that if there is something not running quite right or using lots of battery power a long time after the update, a proper hard reset or two (NOT pulling the battery, the method you describe is fine) does not hurt, and often helps.

    It can actually take in some cases several days for the power usage to return to normal levels when the device is idle. There is a certain amount of database and file indexing that is going on. (And once again this tends to be more noticeable when using an autoloader than when doing an in-place or non-destructive update)


    yeah, i left airplane mode on. you think that was the problem?

    Not at all, it's a good idea to turn Airplane Mode on before doing the update.

    If you are doing an autoloader install, the device will try to connect to your carrier and identify itself, look for software updates and so on. I believe with the newer autoloaders, it will actually enable the radio itself in that case if it is currently off. So no worries there. On an upgrade install it may not, but it does not do the same initial carrier link anyway. You will just need to turn Airplane Mode off after it has booted so it can update and sync your Hub and begin normal operations again.



    anyway, i've created the autoloader for the z30 2142 radio. i'm a little busy right now, but I will try running this later. I've gotta do a backup first too!

    Be careful with the "radio only" autoloaders, because a number of people have found recently that if they had previously done a non-destructive/OTA/in-place OS update, the radio-only autoloader soft-bricks their device.

    Definitely a good idea to do that backup.
    02-18-14 04:44 AM
  22. thanhvx's Avatar

    So keep doing it with the upgrade process with the 150+ bar files and you won't go wrong.

    Posted via CB10
    This is actually what I've done so far and I NEVER get single problem with upgrading.

    I prefer OTA. If cannot, for example my carrier doesn't push the update - like Tmobile, then I use Sachesi search for update and download ALL files and choose Install folder.

    It's not a phone, it's a ?
    Superfly_FR likes this.
    02-18-14 05:10 AM
72 123

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