12-05-13 04:28 AM
49 12
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  1. Warlack's Avatar
    I always try to be. I think I might have quoted the wrong post.

    Nice rebuttal regarding the pan though

    Posted via CB10
    bounce007 likes this.
    12-01-13 09:48 AM
  2. Uzi's Avatar
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=879611
    the example people not read before doing something
    http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=879741
    really can't watch Lol
    Posted via CB10
    Warlack and Mecca EL like this.
    12-01-13 09:48 AM
  3. Warlack's Avatar
    Just keep calm and swipe up....
    @ bounce007 we are always trying our best
    Posted via CB10
    Uzi and gemoelle like this.
    12-01-13 09:55 AM
  4. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    In theory, this would be the ideal situation. In practice, there is no OS in existence that restores cleanly, from a backup. None. Relying on software to "do it for me"... it's this mentally that does the most damage to any system, mobile or otherwise. Due diligence, and counting on your own working knowledge is the safest and most sane way to enjoy electronic devices.

    I'm in no way attacking your comment, logic, or person. I've restored my device faster than any Link back-up or OTA install ever could.

    Posted via CB10
    Most if not all Os's can be restored from backup cleanly.
    No magic at all.
    12-01-13 10:15 AM
  5. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Perfect example of how an installation can go wrong. With all sorts of threads, repeatedly explaining the simple process of installing an OS, this poster could care less about searching for information, reading said information, or following information. Out of anxiety, and having skipped to the "good part", there will be another thread post about "My phone is stuck in a boot loop...help"
    12-01-13 10:15 AM
  6. JoBudden's Avatar
    I never restore. Yet I have tons of issues and battery drain. Reloaded 4 different times. Loaded then wipe. On all 4 occasions. My list of issues.

    Setup doesn't configure mms apn automatically like every other os.

    Horrible battery life ( with no android apps)

    Horrible lag on pretty much everything.

    Facebook screws up all the time.

    Notifications that are turned off still randomly go off.

    Signal drops out completely. I have to reboot my device to get it back.

    Contacts display pictures do not update the way they should.

    Randomly can not use the letters in the contacts for faster selection.

    I'm sure I've had more. Just can't think of anything else atm.



    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 10:17 AM
  7. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Most if not all Os's can be restored from backup cleanly.
    No magic at all.
    Not picking on you in any way. Would you restore XP settings data over Win 8.1? ( I posed this question in another thread )
    12-01-13 10:18 AM
  8. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Not picking on you in any way. Would you restore XP settings data over Win 8.1? ( I posed this question in another thread )
    Nope I would not try that.
    I have made disk images of many different os's which when restored are binary identical to the original.

    I was refuting your point that no os can backup/restore cleanly.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-01-13 10:43 AM
  9. DetlevCM's Avatar
    In theory, this would be the ideal situation. In practice, there is no OS in existence that restores cleanly, from a backup. None. Relying on software to "do it for me"... it's this mentally that does the most damage to any system, mobile or otherwise. Due diligence, and counting on your own working knowledge is the safest and most sane way to enjoy electronic devices.

    I'm in no way attacking your comment, logic, or person. I've restored my device faster than any Link back-up or OTA install ever could.

    Posted via CB10
    No software is ever perfect.
    However working on the assumption that every user will always re-enter all settings is unacceptable.

    Software today is often released as a half backed multi bug public alpha test - beta if you are lucky. (Yes, I am thinking of you Adobe with Lightroom 4...) - And then once a few revisions have come out it becomes usable for the majority of people.
    In this light BlackBerry did very well with BlackBerry 10 as they really weren't lacking anything important. (Was it apple that thought people don't want to copy and paste text, or forward text?)
    I just expect a company that releases a paid supported product to do their job - which is perfectly reasonable. If I want semi-working I#ll take open source software - no support, some things work great, some don't - but it is free.

    Now obviously, with a leak that is an internal beta software, more bugs are bound to be included than with regular release software. Still, one would think they would aim to make it as bug free as possible - only introducing bugs where components have been completely rewritten or updated.
    And if a restore cannot restore components then by all means make it more modular - leave out the bits that are incompatible and present the user with an error log that will give him an indication as to what was skipped and what kind of information was not restored,.

    As to restoring: My backup files are typically around 3GB - 2.something when I remove the Osmand Map.
    If I were to recreate EVERYTHING every time I update the OS, I would be spending most of the day doing just that. It is not acceptable and I won't do it unless absolutely necessary.
    Mecca EL and BigBadWulf like this.
    12-01-13 11:28 AM
  10. DetlevCM's Avatar
    Not picking on you in any way. Would you restore XP settings data over Win 8.1? ( I posed this question in another thread )
    Idiotic comparison...

    You can upgrade windows step by step going across every version and it will work just fine.
    Same goes for Linux.

    There is no "settings restore" on conventional computer operating systems so the comparison doesn't apply. However if you look at an applications, would I restore Firefox 3 bookmarks in Firefox 25? If I needed to, yes, why not? And yes, I would expect it to work - because without any significant format changes that is an inherent requirement for a file format. (In this case the format of the backup file.)

    (One of the reason .doc and all the other old office formats are such a nuisance - they continuously "developed" while technically remaining the same file format...)
    12-01-13 11:31 AM
  11. kacy10's Avatar
    Restoring the setting doesn't affect the newer os Features.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 02:20 PM
  12. DetlevCM's Avatar
    Restoring the setting doesn't affect the newer os Features.

    Posted via CB10
    Actually, when we had a 10.2 leak it did - those who carried forward 10.1 settings couldn't get the black theme in the contacts app to stick.
    12-01-13 02:21 PM
  13. rickkel's Avatar
    Although I normally wait a few days before doing so, I have upgraded my Z10 with nearly all of the OS leaks, now sitting at the most current 10.2.1 version.

    I have always backed up and restored using Link's backup feature (settings, apps and media). Although at the beginning, I never did the "Security Wipe" after using apploader to install the OS, I have the last four or five times.

    Only once did I have trouble restoring - in fact nothing restored - I don't remember which leak that was, but it was not a major one. I reverted back to the previous leak, restored again and all was good.

    I don't have the time to reconfigure my phone back to the way I like it (I use a lot of folders to store apps). If I don't restore, all of that is lost and I have to do it all over again.
    Until the restore process causes me problems (which it normally does not) I will continue to backup and restore.
    12-01-13 04:58 PM
  14. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Idiotic comparison...

    You can upgrade windows step by step going across every version and it will work just fine.
    Same goes for Linux.

    There is no "settings restore" on conventional computer operating systems so the comparison doesn't apply. However if you look at an applications, would I restore Firefox 3 bookmarks in Firefox 25? If I needed to, yes, why not? And yes, I would expect it to work - because without any significant format changes that is an inherent requirement for a file format. (In this case the format of the backup file.)

    (One of the reason .doc and all the other old office formats are such a nuisance - they continuously "developed" while technically remaining the same file format...)
    That's exactly my point, I'm not referring to a step-by-step restore across versions. In the case you present, of course a previous restore would hold. Going from XP to Vista to 7 then 8, your restore data would not resemble XP to 8, it would resemble 7.
    From OS 10.2.0 to 10.2.1, there is no data resemblance to the former. The data from 10.2.0 is completely different and foreign to 10.2.1.xxxx. Link maintains the data integrity of the former. This is proven even with certain applications written specifically for series 10.2.0.
    In theory, my statement would appear idiotic. But in practice, even you would wipe your XP hard drive to clean install 8.1.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 07:42 PM
  15. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    That's exactly my point, I'm not referring to a step-by-step restore across versions. In the case you present, of course a previous restore would hold. Going from XP to Vista to 7 then 8, your restore data would not resemble XP to 8, it would resemble 7.
    From OS 10.2.0 to 10.2.1, there is no data resemblance to the former. The data from 10.2.0 is completely different and foreign to 10.2.1.xxxx. Link maintains the data integrity of the former. This is proven even with certain applications written specifically for series 10.2.0.
    In theory, my statement would appear idiotic. But in practice, even you would wipe your XP hard drive to clean install 8.1.

    Posted via CB10
    If windows 8.1 is a documented upgrade path from xp I would definitely do a full backup and an inplace upgrade.

    If you are telling me that when the OTA upgrade comes out I will loose my settings that would be irresponsible of blackberry.

    I have done inplace upgrades from windows 3.11 to windows 95 to window 2000 to windows xp.
    12-01-13 08:04 PM
  16. Mecca EL's Avatar
    If windows 8.1 is a documented upgrade path from xp I would definitely do a full backup and an inplace upgrade.

    If you are telling me that when the OTA upgrade comes out I will loose my settings that would be irresponsible of blackberry.

    I have done inplace upgrades from windows 3.11 to windows 95 to window 2000 to windows xp.
    I'm not at all saying you would lose data. My comments are not about data loss. Please don't steer my comments.

    There are numerous instances of what's been called "corrupt data" from either a Link restoration or an OTA update/upgrade, when there's any transition from one class of OS into another. There are proven methods to avoid having to go the long way home, verses the shortcut to recovery. We can go back and forth over analogies, or troubleshoot with what works.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 09:33 PM
  17. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    I'm not at all saying you would lose data. My comments are not about data loss. Please don't steer my comments.

    There are numerous instances of what's been called "corrupt data" from either a Link restoration or an OTA update/upgrade, when there's any transition from one class of OS into another. There are proven methods to avoid having to go the long way home, verses the shortcut to recovery. We can go back and forth over analogies, or troubleshoot with what works.

    Posted via CB10
    I did not mean to steer your comments.
    If an OTA upgrade corrupts my settings then Blackberry has dropped the ball.
    If that is has happened or is likely to happen with the new os then I am not going to do business with them.
    Class of OS ... pure sophistry.
    12-01-13 09:50 PM
  18. JoBudden's Avatar
    I did not mean to steer your comments.
    If an OTA upgrade corrupts my settings then Blackberry has dropped the ball.
    If that is has happened or is likely to happen with the new os then I am not going to do business with them.
    Class of OS ... pure sophistry.
    I missed the part where we went from os installation with a computer and restoring with link to ota upgrades. With an ota upgrade you shouldn't expect to lose anything at all I agree. But when you completely install a new os from scratch. That's another ball park all together I would say.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-13 09:55 PM
  19. Mecca EL's Avatar
    I did not mean to steer your comments.
    If an OTA upgrade corrupts my settings then Blackberry has dropped the ball.
    If that is has happened or is likely to happen with the new os then I am not going to do business with them.
    Class of OS ... pure sophistry.
    Last I checked "sophistry" is derived from the same root word as Sophia...which means "to be wise". I appreciate the compliment.

    And again, you're delving into semantics, and not interested in understanding what it is that I am saying. I'll rephrase:
    You back up OS 10.2.0.1803, OTA or Link is looking for an OS 10.2.0.2xxx to restore to, not 10.2.1.1055 - etc - due to this OS not technically listed as "available"
    You backup settings data from an OS with no "awareness" of a dark theme, restoring this same data to an OS with newly established dark themed settings - dark themed contacts crashes

    You can safely restore data. Your previous data will be completely intact. But restoring previous settings data on a current OS, and expecting it to run in a clean current state is ridiculous. Even with legacy OS, restoring anything more than user data - contacts, browser, etc. - was begging for your updated OS to have compatibility issues, ruining its clean current state.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-01-13 11:07 PM
  20. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    I completely agree, when an OS is officially installed OTA, the restore should work perfectly. Certainly it's not the case though. There have been issues on all platforms. Too many variables. You'll always have a percentage of error.

    We're talking about a leak though. One that I'd estimate is internal. Someone thought it was good enough to share. I'd agree, but it has some flaws for everyone, and they range in severity, as the two in my house do.

    My BlackBerry is my method of choice, even with a PC powered up right in front of me. I've backed up since I started using a BlackBerry, on 4.3. 5.0 through 6.0 I had no internet. Found I just wasn't using it. I was beta testing hybrids through those few years. Can't tell you how many times I've struggled with different problems, how many were found in the official too, and G-d knows how often I sweat through getting my phone back to life at all.

    I'll either be restoring my data, or not using that OS. Period

    Telling people they shouldn't restore, is not an acceptable answer for most members. Suggesting they start over, test without restoring, and then add restore piece by piece, will give them a chance to solve the whole problem. Many times, going back a backup has made a huge difference.

    I don't feel bad for the noobs who jacked up their phone, not reading the OP in a leak, but I don't feel mad either. It's been a problem since the first product that required a manual.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-01-13 11:20 PM
  21. Mecca EL's Avatar
    I completely agree, when an OS is officially installed OTA, the restore should work perfectly. Certainly it's not the case though. There have been issues on all platforms. Too many variables. You'll always have a percentage of error.

    We're talking about a leak though. One that I'd estimate is internal. Someone thought it was good enough to share. I'd agree, but it has some flaws for everyone, and they range in severity, as the two in my house do.

    My BlackBerry is my method of choice, even with a PC powered up right in front of me. I've backed up since I started using a BlackBerry, on 4.3. 5.0 through 6.0 I had no internet. Found I just wasn't using it. I was beta testing hybrids through those few years. Can't tell you how many times I've struggled with different problems, how many were found in the official too, and G-d knows how often I sweat through getting my phone back to life at all.

    I'll either be restoring my data, or not using that OS. Period

    Telling people they shouldn't restore, is not an acceptable answer for most members. Suggesting they start over, test without restoring, and then add restore piece by piece, will give them a chance to solve the whole problem. Many times, going back a backup has made a huge difference.

    I don't feel bad for the noobs who jacked up their phone, not reading the OP in a leak, but I don't feel mad either. It's been a problem since the first product that required a manual.
    Indeed. And I must reiterate, I most surely restore from a personal local backup, using apps that afford the control over which data I deem important. Unfortunately, Link nor OTA gives us the flexibility and control that BBDM did/does. Until those user select controls become available on a future Link release, this and any statement from myself strictly applies to me, I prefer to restore from a local backup. I do this AFTER I test a restore from Link, just to prove that I'm not insane. You know how us pirating folks are.
    BigBadWulf likes this.
    12-01-13 11:40 PM
  22. DetlevCM's Avatar
    That's exactly my point, I'm not referring to a step-by-step restore across versions. In the case you present, of course a previous restore would hold. Going from XP to Vista to 7 then 8, your restore data would not resemble XP to 8, it would resemble 7.
    From OS 10.2.0 to 10.2.1, there is no data resemblance to the former. The data from 10.2.0 is completely different and foreign to 10.2.1.xxxx. Link maintains the data integrity of the former. This is proven even with certain applications written specifically for series 10.2.0.
    In theory, my statement would appear idiotic. But in practice, even you would wipe your XP hard drive to clean install 8.1.

    Posted via CB10
    I wouldn't upgrade Windows in the first place because that OS isn't worth it (aside from service packs and windows update).

    But if you look at Linux - a significantly better example, update paths fro SUSE Linux exist from 12.1, 12.2 and 12.3 to 13.1.
    I belive that 11.x also exists as 11.x was"Evergreen".

    You are also now mixing things, restores and upgrade paths - and in both cases it is very much standard for those to be supported (within reason) across platform versions.

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-01-13 11:53 PM
  23. BigBadWulf's Avatar
    Indeed. And I must reiterate, I most surely restore from a personal local backup, using apps that afford the control over which data I deem important. Unfortunately, Link nor OTA gives us the flexibility and control that BBDM did/does. Until those user select controls become available on a future Link release, this and any statement from myself strictly applies to me, I prefer to restore from a local backup. I do this AFTER I test a restore from Link, just to prove that I'm not insane. You know how us pirating folks are.
    Aye, ya scallywag!
    Mecca EL likes this.
    12-02-13 06:30 AM
  24. kacy10's Avatar
    Thanks for clarification
    12-05-13 04:28 AM
49 12

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