09-23-13 09:58 PM
77 1234
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  1. Wigley458's Avatar
    I think Bla1ze put it perfectly, I mean before I was tapped to be a leak tester before posting it to the forums, I jumped all over the 10.1 dev beta and first leak from it. I was excited to have something like my android nightlies. But that being said this is so far from nightlies it's not even funny. After all as open source as BlackBerry is trying to be, their core OS is not meant for open source. There are ups and downs, and to be honest, I'm glad the leaks have started to slow. I'm quite honestly tired of seeing apps get bad reviews because it doesn't work with 10.2! Like come on people, you complain about no instagram yet turn around and bash every dev out there because their app isn't working with the latest and greatest LEAK. This is why we have disclaimers in place. Companies won't want to develop for a platform where a member will give it a 1 star review because it doesn't work with a OS that's not due out for a few more months, and the developer kit just launched.

    I understand the positive to leaks, it's amazing that we found the fix to the reboots through 2354 before BlackBerry even updated their KB. That's huge for a community, but again doesn't look good on a company, as it makes them look like they were slacking on a answer, when in reality they were trying to take every possible angle into consideration.

    I think I've ranted on long enough, I could go on, however I won't.

    Posted via my Q10 SQN100-1
    Good points as well

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57
    06-24-13 06:18 PM
  2. Wigley458's Avatar
    [QUOTE=jonty12;8704324]Good for practical reasons the same way beta testing is good. It's not just for the software developer, it's for the customer too. By downloading and installing all the 10.1 leaks on my Z and Q I new more than a month ago that my company was going to have serious mail issues on the Q10 and as soon as the U.S. carriers update the Z to 10.1. By knowing that in advance, we know to tell our people NOT to upgrade to 10.1 unless it's a build that we know works. By working directly with BlackBerry we've been able to test and verify a Z10 build for AT&T that works (later build than the latest leaks), but not yet for the other carriers. There is no Q10 build that we've tested yet that works properly, but BlackBerry assures us they know what they issue is and have corrected it - we just need to test it.

    Bottom line is that because of leaks we have our staff currently holding off on buying Q10s and they've been told to NOT upgrade to 10.1 on their Z10s until the right build is released. It has saved us an enormous amount of time in eliminating complaints and has save BlackBerry an enormous amount of potential reputation damage.[/QUOTE

    Very interesting take on it. Good job. And point taken

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57
    06-24-13 06:20 PM
  3. james pisano's Avatar
    Hey. I think it's good and bad for Blackberry. It's good because there are clearly a group of techies who understand the risks and are more satisfied customers as a result of be able to use the leaked OS. And then, they're bad for the reasons the OP mentioned, which are that there are more unsatisfied customers who shouldn't have downloaded the leak anyway. I know this is a simplistic view, but probably close to the truth.

    My only other point is that I am a reasonably tech-oriented Blackberry customer, but I am afraid to download the leaks. I enjoy learning about the technology and downloaded the (lame cause it's so high level) OS 10.0 user manual and read through it as I did for my Bold and Playbook. I can tell there are guys on this forum who dwarf my knowledge, but still, I feel pretty competent; when I call Verizon tech support, I invariably am passed on beyond their customer service as my questions ars ones they typically cannot answer. But I am afraid to download the leak. I am not currently a BES user because my tech department kind of sucks, but my Z10 is critical to my business and while I wish I could try out 10.1, I'm afraid to.

    Via Z10 & CB10
    06-24-13 06:26 PM
  4. anon721037's Avatar
    I like leaks because the combo I have going now makes my phone perfect until the next official. And I'm sure there will be a leak to make it perfect.

    Posted from my Q10 on the addicting CB
    06-24-13 06:27 PM
  5. Djlatino's Avatar
    Leaks are for the people who can't update. And in that case, they could always use Sachup... But meanwhile, people will still use leaks and assume it's the latest. Best thing to do is to use the latest official release of a carrier.
    06-24-13 06:36 PM
  6. yvpan1's Avatar
    for me, leaks are GOOD!!! why?

    think about it this way. a company like BBRY with a huge number of installed base customers all around the world basically needs to have more inputs from the users & customers of the software release they have created. internal tests are good, but to just only cope with the data & the findings from their internal tests won't actually mean that the software release for that build is truly valid. they perhaps might say, "ok, this build is alright. it has ticked all (or almost all) of the boxes we require before getting it released to the public" BUT again, every phone behaves according to the environment where it is used and it has to be different. there is NO WAY a phone will be used exactly the same as the other phone, EVEN IF you try to replicate everything exactly the same, there are lots of external factors which might challenge that.

    hence, leaks are good as through these leaks, the public will be exposed to the fit & proper test too. all rantings, yells, mocks and angers, yeah that's what we need to provide to BBRY through installing the leaks. of course, as what the mods have told us from the beginning, WE HAVE TO REMAIN RESPONSIBLE OF WHAT WE HAVE DONE, so DO IT RESPONSIBLY. if you don't have the courage to do so, you may just be an observer (like i do most of the time) and just scroll through the forums and read the whole story. i believe the team at BBRY never close their eyes and they always check CB forums day by day to get input for their internal evaluations.

    BB10 is still new, but see, we are now (at least almost all parts of the world - sorry AT&T & VZ folks) on the 10.1 OS, which was just released 4 months after the launch day. with the 10.1 MR is just on the door and the 10.2 beta is currently around, doesn't that mean BBRY is moving to keep us moving? think again.
    06-24-13 07:11 PM
  7. Wigley458's Avatar
    Op updated as I decided to put my 2 cents in finally

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57
    06-24-13 07:25 PM
  8. aelaan's Avatar
    My opinion about leaks are that I have learned new tools like Sachup and sachbar plus I have found fun and entertaining ways to extract data. Yes so what I am nerdy, in the end I came out with new respect for developers and was able to learn to use and troubleshoot BBLINK. Leaks are not supported and yet I cry foul when I mess something up. I have fun running with 10.2 and show my co-workers that even at my age I can still outsmart them. Luckily I have a solid device that doesn't reboot at crazy times.
    Z10 and Q10 are great devices and in the very near future I will be having a stable jelly bean runtime to load even more crazy apps on here, leaks in my opinion give the dare devils a look under the hood.

    Keep them coming



    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-24-13 07:32 PM
  9. mkiiw's Avatar
    In my view leaks are great, but people need to spend sometime and do some homework to do some reading. Just read the manual and prepare something else happen and know how to get away from it.
    06-24-13 07:43 PM
  10. Pete The Penguin's Avatar
    I think Bla1ze put it perfectly, I mean before I was tapped to be a leak tester before posting it to the forums, I jumped all over the 10.1 dev beta and first leak from it. I was excited to have something like my android nightlies. But that being said this is so far from nightlies it's not even funny. After all as open source as BlackBerry is trying to be, their core OS is not meant for open source. There are ups and downs, and to be honest, I'm glad the leaks have started to slow. I'm quite honestly tired of seeing apps get bad reviews because it doesn't work with 10.2! Like come on people, you complain about no instagram yet turn around and bash every dev out there because their app isn't working with the latest and greatest LEAK. This is why we have disclaimers in place. Companies won't want to develop for a platform where a member will give it a 1 star review because it doesn't work with a OS that's not due out for a few more months, and the developer kit just launched.

    I understand the positive to leaks, it's amazing that we found the fix to the reboots through 2354 before BlackBerry even updated their KB. That's huge for a community, but again doesn't look good on a company, as it makes them look like they were slacking on a answer, when in reality they were trying to take every possible angle into consideration.

    I think I've ranted on long enough, I could go on, however I won't.

    Posted via my Q10 SQN100-1
    What Kris said

    (I know several people running 2354 who still have random reboots. Not with US carriers either.)


    Posted from the tap-dancing mouse
    06-24-13 08:07 PM
  11. systemvolker's Avatar
    Leaks are good until blackberry has all the control of updates.


    This is why people prefer leaks because some versions of the os that were released by carriers are faulty while people get the fixes from leaks.


    I don't like carriers controlling the updates. They're not the makers or developers of the os.


    Its like we're paying them to screw our phone up. So they can get more money from us.


    Once again, leaks are good if blackberry cannot control the updates. (carriers must not be involved with any updates)



    Posted via CB10
    Wigley458 likes this.
    06-24-13 08:09 PM
  12. Norg's Avatar
    I personally like using leaks as they tend to correct most of the problems that exist with the "certified" releases. However, in a business world, when my company pays for BBRY support for the phones and BDS server, you have to use the certified vendor releases to get support. I've even tried to use one of the leaks (i forget the build number) that was official in Romania and was told that because the build was not official with AT&T, I had to revert back before getting support. Now with AT&T pushing then pulling 10.1, my one business app still doesn't work and I can't get support since it still isn't the official AT&T version. I could write another paragraph on that crap, but that's for a different thread.
    Very good points raised and I can relate NetworkGuy.
    06-24-13 08:16 PM
  13. Blacklatino's Avatar
    I appreciate the leaks. I don't spend a lot of time posting pros vs. cons because, as stated, the leaks are never the lastest to be eventually released by BlackBerry. Also, how many times do you need to read snappy browser, quicker responsiveness, etc.. IMO,The leaks are for anyone that wants to upgrade. Here's the problem, if you don't know what you're doing and don't want to research prior to upgrading, you should not do it. Calling your carrier or BlackBerry for assistance because you missed a step in the process usually doesn't get you any help. Happens all the time by some on here. Just don't get upset and demand support because you effed up. FYI, telling your carrier that if they would release a newer OS, you would not have upgraded to the leak......doesn't work either(BBMed by someone that tried that last week). LOL. Also, no one has the right to "demand" (as opposed to asking) anything from those leaking an OS. If it helps your device - great. If not, learn how to downgrade as opposed to starting another GD thread to complain about it. If you make the choice to use a leaked OS, deal with the consequences - good or bad.
    06-24-13 08:23 PM
  14. Wigley458's Avatar
    I appreciate the leaks. I don't spend a lot of time posting pros vs. cons because, as stated, the leaks are never the lastest to be eventually released by BlackBerry. Also, how many times do you need to read snappy browser, quicker responsiveness, etc.. IMO,The leaks are for anyone that wants to upgrade. Here's the problem, if you don't know what you're doing and don't want to research prior to upgrading, you should not do it. Calling your carrier or BlackBerry for assistance because you missed a step in the process usually doesn't get you any help. Happens all the time by some on here. Just don't get upset and demand support because you effed up. FYI, telling your carrier that if they would release a newer OS, you would not have upgraded to the leak......doesn't work either(BBMed by someone that tried that last week). LOL. Also, no one has the right to "demand" (as opposed to asking) anything from those leaking an OS. If it helps your device - great. If not, learn how to downgrade as opposed to starting another GD thread to complain about it. If you make the choice to use a leaked OS, deal with the consequences - good or bad.
    Amen to that!

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57
    ghundiraj and Blacklatino like this.
    06-24-13 08:43 PM
  15. StutterStep's Avatar
    Leaks that contain new features that give them competitive edge = bad for blackberry
    Leaks that contain fixes = good for everyone else
    Pete The Penguin likes this.
    06-24-13 09:08 PM
  16. Adolfo Redillo's Avatar
    I think leaks are good but then again too fragmented. I truly think blackberry should really just offer the leaks through the beta zone so there can be a closer correlation of what is being fixed and what needs to be fixed. An the customer can truly get and understanding that what they are installing is not complete software. Maybe, just maybe people will stop being and arses and give real feedback and blackberry can use that carrier specific and device specifics to no what works and what doesn't.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-24-13 09:42 PM
  17. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    Thanks to Wigley458, Kris and others I am able to enjoy the rich features of 10.2 when my carrier, AT&T, can't seem to get its arms around 10.1. To be sure, you have no right to complain if something goes awry when installing a leak, or even an official release from another carrier via Sachup. It will happen if you do it enough.

    I am thankful for all the awesome contributors on CB that allow me to take full advantage of BB10 and the awesome Z10 hardware.

    CB needs to start a hall of fame for you guys. BBRY should not underestimate the work you guys do.



    Posted via CB10
    Last edited by LP_Rigg; 06-24-13 at 10:20 PM.
    ghundiraj and Wigley458 like this.
    06-24-13 09:51 PM
  18. ghundiraj's Avatar
    I totally love the leaked OS. I bought an STL100-2 online and live in India where this device is not completely supported with updates. Until last week, I was running 10.0.xx and had no skype, no separate whatsapp notifcations in the HUB and many other features.
    I noticed that my previous backups don't restore, searched CB for the reason, and in the end realized that it may just be my leaked OS. You won't see a rant from me for that, I knew what I was getting into.

    Someone should take all the users (who have installed leaked OSs and are complaining) and have then spend some time with BBs that have OS 4.x installed
    06-24-13 10:54 PM
  19. 3hb78ftg's Avatar
    In my personal opinion, leaks are good because it help get a broader user feedback from all types of setups. Now in a companies perspective I would say it's bad because it makes you look unorganized. You have all I kinds of releases everywhere with everyone having all types of problems. BlackBerry can't continue to fall under the hand if the US carriers.

    It seems that all they are doing is holding back on purpose to maintain their existing iOS and android products. Just look at the lack of marketing for BlackBerry products.


    SILENCE!!! For I have spoken...
    06-24-13 11:04 PM
  20. jgrobertson's Avatar
    Leaks that are clean and near release condition are good for those of us in carriers, like AT&T, that can take months to put out updates. Few users take advantage of them however.


    Buggy OS that I'd not corrected immediately is damaging to BlackBerry. Allowing that to continue when fixes are available betrays management problems at BlackBerry.


    Posted via CB10
    06-25-13 02:21 AM
  21. skelleytech's Avatar
    I'm pro LEAKS now. My Z10 has never worked so good. Maybe if my carrier releases 10.2 before a LEAK or shortly after a solid 10.2 LEAK is put here on the forums, I'll consider it. However, that will not happen. I study these forums and listen to what other users are saying. It has worked out great for me despite being a Verizon customer. It's like a PC with Microsoft patches or hotfixes and driver updates. It requires time, trial and error until you find the right configuration.

    Z10
    OS LEAK 10.1.0.2354
    Radio: 10.1.0.1881
    Network: LTE\CDMA

    ST
    EnchantedBB likes this.
    06-25-13 06:20 AM
  22. f_d's Avatar
    Leaks are a "bad" thing in the same way that Snowden's Top Secret files leak is a bad thing: a developer signed a non-disclosure agreement and violated it. Whether the intent was altruistic or not, the fact is that a legal agreement for confidentiality was broken, and potentially, information related to features or other things of competitive advantage to BlackBerry could have been lost or exposed. If this were Apple, that developer would have been found and there would have been some pretty severe consequences for that person..

    That said... Leaks are also a "good" thing in that they allow BlackBerry to do a couple of things: get some additional unofficial testing and feedback, and to, again, unofficially, circumvent "carrier testing" requirements and get bug fixes out into the hands of users.. BlackBerry has always had, in my perception, a problem with incomplete or insufficient testing: they'd release a new OS, and features that were working in the previous release are now broken.. And we're not talking obscure functions that nobody uses, but often core product features.. Obviously, their internal testing and regression procedures were not sufficient to catch these problems, and their set of "beta test" developers were obviously focused on the new APIs or functions that they were interested in for their application and did not bother to re-test core functionality.. By turning a "blind eye" more or less to leaks, it allows them (assuming that they pay at least some attention to the various public forums where leaks are discussed), to get some additional, unofficial testing and feedback and to address such problems, if not in the next "official release" (which are probably older than the leaks and already in the hands of carriers), then in an upcoming release.. They have gotten better in the last couple of years, but there are still too many bugs IMO.. Secondly, and I have it direct from the lips of a VP within BlackBerry, and I won't mention his or her name or which part of the organization they work for, but a very senior executive level person, so they were espousing an "unofficial, semi-official" corporate position with regards to leaks: that they tolerate the leaks (they eventually get files removed from hosting services, but they take their time), at least partly to get around the long "carrier testing" periods and get some critical bug fixes out to at least part of the user population. They have been working on processes to try to reduce the carrier testing required and are looking at ways to decouple security and bug fixes from things that may affect the carrier network, and I do see some improvement, but the carrier approval process is not global (so some customers are stuck with ancient OSes with all manner of bugs) and is creating a huge amount of frustration within the user community, so I applaud BB for not clamping down on a channel that in all fairness they have a right (and indeed, perhaps a corporate duty) to clamp down on..

    So, I say, let the leaks continue!
    06-25-13 08:00 AM
  23. Wigley458's Avatar
    Leaks are a "bad" thing in the same way that Snowden's Top Secret files leak is a bad thing: a developer signed a non-disclosure agreement and violated it. Whether the intent was altruistic or not, the fact is that a legal agreement for confidentiality was broken, and potentially, information related to features or other things of competitive advantage to BlackBerry could have been lost or exposed. If this were Apple, that developer would have been found and there would have been some pretty severe consequences for that person..

    That said... Leaks are also a "good" thing in that they allow BlackBerry to do a couple of things: get some additional unofficial testing and feedback, and to, again, unofficially, circumvent "carrier testing" requirements and get bug fixes out into the hands of users.. BlackBerry has always had, in my perception, a problem with incomplete or insufficient testing: they'd release a new OS, and features that were working in the previous release are now broken.. And we're not talking obscure functions that nobody uses, but often core product features.. Obviously, their internal testing and regression procedures were not sufficient to catch these problems, and their set of "beta test" developers were obviously focused on the new APIs or functions that they were interested in for their application and did not bother to re-test core functionality.. By turning a "blind eye" more or less to leaks, it allows them (assuming that they pay at least some attention to the various public forums where leaks are discussed), to get some additional, unofficial testing and feedback and to address such problems, if not in the next "official release" (which are probably older than the leaks and already in the hands of carriers), then in an upcoming release.. They have gotten better in the last couple of years, but there are still too many bugs IMO.. Secondly, and I have it direct from the lips of a VP within BlackBerry, and I won't mention his or her name or which part of the organization they work for, but a very senior executive level person, so they were espousing an "unofficial, semi-official" corporate position with regards to leaks: that they tolerate the leaks (they eventually get files removed from hosting services, but they take their time), at least partly to get around the long "carrier testing" periods and get some critical bug fixes out to at least part of the user population. They have been working on processes to try to reduce the carrier testing required and are looking at ways to decouple security and bug fixes from things that may affect the carrier network, and I do see some improvement, but the carrier approval process is not global (so some customers are stuck with ancient OSes with all manner of bugs) and is creating a huge amount of frustration within the user community, so I applaud BB for not clamping down on a channel that in all fairness they have a right (and indeed, perhaps a corporate duty) to clamp down on..

    So, I say, let the leaks continue!
    Very well written and good blog

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.0.93 & Posted from my awesome Z10 via cb10. My Channel pin http://channelpin.com/C000B3B57
    06-25-13 08:15 AM
  24. lawguyman's Avatar
    The bad part of leaks is that there has not been a good one for a while.

    I want a full 10.2 leak and am willing to accept a few issues knowing this stuff is beta.



    Posted via CB10
    06-25-13 08:31 AM
  25. npunk42's Avatar
    Good. For the same reason you don't always take your car to the dealer for maintenance. Some things you can do yourself. All the parts in a leak are genuine Blackberry, so get the right ones and go for it. Of course you accept full responsibility for the outcome, but there is lots of us doing it and sharing our results. How can that be bad? The fact that some of us are rocking perfectly functioning 10.2 Z10s before some carriers have released even one 10.1 is a testament to the tenacity and dedication of BB users to take on that responsibility.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-25-13 08:33 AM
77 1234

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