06-09-15 11:08 PM
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  1. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    I don't dispute for one minute the arguments here that leaks are a violation on the NDA and are technically illegal, or unethical, if nothing else, on the part of members of the beta program who leak these beta releases.

    But I suspect that the NDAs and rules of the beta programs have to do only with providing BlackBerry a level of protection for itself against responsibility to consumers or unauthorized users or anyone else making complaints or claims about malfunctioning devices or failures of security while on these leaked beta OS versions. It's a matter of CYA, as in everything else these days. When I submitted my logs on the BT problems and was using a (then) beta 10.3.2.680, they simply said that it was my problem, and they wouldn't spend any more time on it. When the same 680 became official a week later, then they responded.

    My guess is that once legally shielded by virtue of these NDAs, BlackBerry is happy (or at least indifferent) about the widespread "beta testing" for free on these OSes. How many of these betas have been responsible for actually bricking a device or for data security breaches? Probably none. How many have been pulled, never to be seen again, or have had problems that couldn't easily be fixed on the next release?

    I don't feel guilty in the least about using a leaked OS, regardless of its source. I own the phone, paid over $500 for it, and I can do with it what I want, so long as I don't expect BlackBerry to support me while I'm on the leaked OS.

    Totally agree, but hey i didn't read the whole thing, lmao
    Mecca EL and moody like this.
    06-09-15 08:00 PM
  2. jope28's Avatar
    I don't dispute for one minute the arguments here that leaks are a violation on the NDA and are technically illegal, or unethical, if nothing else, on the part of members of the beta program who leak these beta releases.

    But I suspect that the NDAs and rules of the beta programs have to do only with providing BlackBerry a level of protection for itself against responsibility to consumers or unauthorized users or anyone else making complaints or claims about malfunctioning devices or failures of security while on these leaked beta OS versions. It's a matter of CYA, as in everything else these days. When I submitted my logs on the BT problems and was using a (then) beta 10.3.2.680, they simply said that it was my problem, and they wouldn't spend any more time on it. When the same 680 became official a week later, then they responded.

    My guess is that once legally shielded by virtue of these NDAs, BlackBerry is happy (or at least indifferent) about the widespread "beta testing" for free on these OSes. How many of these betas have been responsible for actually bricking a device or for data security breaches? Probably none. How many have been pulled, never to be seen again, or have had problems that couldn't easily be fixed on the next release?

    I don't feel guilty in the least about using a leaked OS, regardless of its source. I own the phone, paid over $500 for it, and I can do with it what I want, so long as I don't expect BlackBerry to support me while I'm on the leaked OS.
    Exactly.
    "Power to the people!"

    People would be naive to think that BlackBerry doesn't calculate all this into their projections. It's like when a store calculates in the cost of items that will be shoplifted.

    BlackBerry has been around for a while. They wouldn't even have a Beta program if they weren't counting on a certain percentage of ppl to violate the terms. It's not their first rodeo lol


    [Hopefully NOT edited by admin to be fair lol. ] Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.798 CB10
    Last edited by jope28; 06-09-15 at 10:16 PM.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 08:01 PM
  3. Carjackd's Avatar
    Totally agree, but hey i didn't read the whole thing, lmao
    Who are you kidding? You can barely read period!

    Posted via my Canadian Passport
    anon(9208252) and Mecca EL like this.
    06-09-15 08:02 PM
  4. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    Wait... Did you just say I'm too sexy for my shirt?
    Hey come on, you're to sexy for a lot of things,
    Mecca EL and moody like this.
    06-09-15 08:02 PM
  5. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    Who are you kidding? You can barely read period!

    Posted via my Canadian Passport
    Wut
    Carjackd likes this.
    06-09-15 08:02 PM
  6. nardholio's Avatar
    Why do the NDA weenies even bother reading this forum? They're not allowed to load unofficial leaks. So they're not here just for the carrier leaks as has been alleged. And they know the rest of us don't care about the NDA or we wouldn't be here. Their only purpose can be to troll.
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 08:11 PM
  7. anon(9208252)'s Avatar
    Who are you kidding? You can barely read period!

    Posted via my Canadian Passport

    What you can read a period, you are smarter than me.
    Carjackd and Mecca EL like this.
    06-09-15 08:11 PM
  8. ray689's Avatar
    Mecca, regardless of your personal opinion, the information I posted is accurate. Purposely releasing information from a closed beta is a breach of a legal agreement, and may result in termination of the beta program. It's happened before and you know it.

    If BlackBerry "couldn't care less", then why do they increasingly include more direct and obvious confidentiality disclaimers for their beta releases?

    Should I also mention the impact on carrier relations? US carriers do not permit untested software on their networks and doing so damages the relationship between BlackBerry and carriers further. The beta programs specifically state this - yet when software is leaked, this can no longer be enforced.

    Again - it's about honouring BlackBerry. You can hold whatever personal opinion you want, but publicly flouting and endorsing violations of legally binding agreements is just wrong.
    Well said. Some people just don't have respect for rules or legality in general. The whole "it will leak anyway" mentality is irrelevant.
    People will shop lift from Walmart regardless too but that doesn't mean it's okay. Or I guess maybe some do think it fine since it'll happen anyway and "it won't hurt anyone" or "Walmart doesn't care" since it won't truly affect them.
    People in here justify it because they want new OS builds.

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-15 08:12 PM
  9. JoBudden's Avatar
    Anyone else notice there's not one CDMA device in the beta program. That's not fair

    Posted via CB10
    GPuba, jope28 and Mecca EL like this.
    06-09-15 08:13 PM
  10. ppeters914's Avatar
    My leeks are in a beta program? Who would have guessed it...

    Attachment 356762
    You fool! No pictures!

    Posted via CB10 / AT&T /Z10 STL100-3 /10.3.2.680
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 08:16 PM
  11. 3hb78ftg's Avatar
    Get a real carrier. Lol

    Murdeme
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 08:16 PM
  12. tdyhedge's Avatar
    ....US carriers do not permit untested software on their networks....
    FYI -- evidently I have untested software and am on Verizon Wireless' network here in the US. So...really?

    \_(ツ)_/

    Posted via CB10
    06-09-15 08:17 PM
  13. Pdinos3's Avatar
    Well said. Some people just don't have respect for rules or legality in general. The whole "it will leak anyway" mentality is irrelevant.
    People will shop lift from Walmart regardless too but that doesn't mean it's okay. Or I guess maybe some do think it fine since it'll happen anyway and "it won't hurt anyone" or "Walmart doesn't care" since it won't truly affect them.
    People in here justify it because they want new OS builds.

    Posted via CB10
    Yup. I'm ready!

    Via CB10 Rockin PassportSQW100-1/10.3.2.798
    Mecca EL and Blacklatino like this.
    06-09-15 08:18 PM
  14. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Mecca, regardless of your personal opinion, the information I posted is accurate. Purposely releasing information from a closed beta is a breach of a legal agreement, and may result in termination of the beta program. It's happened before and you know it.

    If BlackBerry "couldn't care less", then why do they increasingly include more direct and obvious confidentiality disclaimers for their beta releases?

    Should I also mention the impact on carrier relations? US carriers do not permit untested software on their networks and doing so damages the relationship between BlackBerry and carriers further. The beta programs specifically state this - yet when software is leaked, this can no longer be enforced.

    Again - it's about honouring BlackBerry. You can hold whatever personal opinion you want, but publicly flouting and endorsing violations of legally binding agreements is just wrong.
    Carriers don't make the software. They only provide connectivity. So as long as the information is available to connect to proper spectrum, carriers could careless.

    Let's go back a bit, when cellular networks were true cellular, and terrestrial frequencies were a big issue. Networks had to route wireless calls thru landlines. But if you create a digital network, which is what we all currently use, you can make up a frequency to push calls etc.

    It's not rocket science anymore, and carriers need only give the IP info to device manufacturers. This is why iPhone users, and non-carrier attached Android devices don't need carrier testing or approval. I have 2 carrier branded Z10, a BB Direct Q10, and a OnePlus One. I walk into to Tmo, ask for a nano SIM, connect to my network and pay my bill.

    People blindly sign NDA's all the time. You think you're going to jail for tearing the tag off of your bed pillow, when it clearly says not to do that?
    06-09-15 08:21 PM
  15. Ment's Avatar
    Should I also mention the impact on carrier relations? US carriers do not permit untested software on their networks and doing so damages the relationship between BlackBerry and carriers further. The beta programs specifically state this - yet when software is leaked, this can no longer be enforced.

    Again - it's about honouring BlackBerry. You can hold whatever personal opinion you want, but publicly flouting and endorsing violations of legally binding agreements is just wrong.
    They must be raving mad at Google for allowing an environment where plethora of custom roms exists ever since the debut of Android and run happily on those networks.
    Mecca EL and Blacklatino like this.
    06-09-15 08:23 PM
  16. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Well said. Some people just don't have respect for rules or legality in general. The whole "it will leak anyway" mentality is irrelevant.
    People will shop lift from Walmart regardless too but that doesn't mean it's okay. Or I guess maybe some do think it fine since it'll happen anyway and "it won't hurt anyone" or "Walmart doesn't care" since it won't truly affect them.
    People in here justify it because they want new OS builds.

    Posted via CB10
    A leaked OS costs BlackBerry $0, while a shoplifted item costs Walmart the value of said item. Apples to oranges.
    06-09-15 08:28 PM
  17. John Vieira's Avatar
    No. I agree. There shouldn't be any more leaks.

    So that some users can resent the beta testers, and then a newer version drops with a new feature or whatever and then the beta testers can resent the other users.

    I say whenever anyone asks about a leak, we point them to PMing OP. Then he can deal with everyone that wants a leak.

    We can also go to other sites that don't have these kinds of issues, and just download them from there.

    It will happen, just maybe not on crackberry because of people like you OP.

    BTW, complaining that people are glory seekers by posting info and leaks, and then going out of your way to make this thread... I see some real glory seeking.

    Work Wide and Prosper
    06-09-15 08:33 PM
  18. mu57afa's Avatar
    a simple google search shows us wonders about said leak
    Mecca EL and Blacklatino like this.
    06-09-15 08:34 PM
  19. Mecca EL's Avatar
    Well said. Some people just don't have respect for rules or legality in general. The whole "it will leak anyway" mentality is irrelevant.
    People will shop lift from Walmart regardless too but that doesn't mean it's okay. Or I guess maybe some do think it fine since it'll happen anyway and "it won't hurt anyone" or "Walmart doesn't care" since it won't truly affect them.
    People in here justify it because they want new OS builds.

    Posted via CB10
    this is the stupidest comment I've ever read. How in the world did you equate signing an agreement to shoplifting?

    Ahhhhhhhh, I get it!!! There's an invisible "shoplifting" agreement, that all store shoppers telepathically sign. Silly me...
    06-09-15 08:36 PM
  20. jope28's Avatar
    A leaked OS costs BlackBerry $0, while a shoplifted item costs Walmart the value of said item. Apples to oranges.
    Apples to Berries!
    Everyone knows berries leak more than apples. No comparison in the juiciness department.

    [Hopefully NOT edited by admin to be fair lol. ] Frosty White Q10/10.3.2.798 CB10
    LazyEvul and Mecca EL like this.
    06-09-15 08:43 PM
  21. ZF_23's Avatar
    News secret *cheers*
    06-09-15 08:55 PM
  22. JoBudden's Avatar
    Sooo what's the official Verizon OS at the moment?

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL and moody like this.
    06-09-15 09:19 PM
  23. KenV54's Avatar
    Mecca, regardless of your personal opinion, the information I posted is accurate. Purposely releasing information from a closed beta is a breach of a legal agreement, and may result in termination of the beta program. It's happened before and you know it.

    If BlackBerry "couldn't care less", then why do they increasingly include more direct and obvious confidentiality disclaimers for their beta releases?

    Should I also mention the impact on carrier relations? US carriers do not permit untested software on their networks and doing so damages the relationship between BlackBerry and carriers further. The beta programs specifically state this - yet when software is leaked, this can no longer be enforced.

    Again - it's about honouring BlackBerry. You can hold whatever personal opinion you want, but publicly flouting and endorsing violations of legally binding agreements is just wrong.
    Again, ethically it's wrong. It just is. Indisputably so, especially if you're a Kantian. Of course, if you're a Kantian, you likely don't have much fun in life.

    But the practical effects, even in terms of carrier relationships, are probably negligible. With a carrier in the US like AT&T, we on CB are just doing their work for them. They pretend BlackBerry doesn't exist, anyway, even though they nominally sell the Passport and Classic, if you can even find one in their stores. If an AT&T user like me didn't have CB with its support and yes, its leaks, I'd still be on 10.3.1 if I had an AT&T branded Passport as opposed to an unlocked one. Maybe with other carriers in other countries it's a different matter--I don't know.

    Bottom line for me--it's a crime, but a victimless one.
    JoBudden and Mecca EL like this.
    06-09-15 09:24 PM
  24. filanto's Avatar
    I gotta leak

    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 09:28 PM
  25. nycspaces.'s Avatar
    I can neither confirm or deny my leakyness...

    The carriers don't give a crap about us and anyone who calls the carriers for support is essentially doomed to a spiral of wasted time and blockades.



    Posted via CB10
    Mecca EL likes this.
    06-09-15 09:33 PM
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