1. williaml's Avatar
    I am currently on 10.1.0.4543 but as far as I have seen these problems also exist on older builds.

    When I delete emails from my Gmail account on my Q10, they just end up archived in Gmail on the Web (these are junk mail, I want them deleted not archived).

    Also, the syncing of updates (marking as read, etc...) takes a long time! I have push enabled and new emails arrive quickly but take forever to sync once updated (as compared to the browser client).

    Has anyone else experienced these issues and if so is there a setting to change this and/or is it fixed in a newer OS?

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 12:52 PM
  2. howarmat's Avatar
    I have seen others comment on this or a similar problem. Hopefully it gets fixed!
    07-16-13 12:55 PM
  3. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    These are not bugs. First is caused by implementation of IMAP by Google. Long story short: they do not follow standards.
    The second is normal behavior. It's syncing not pushing. You can trigger manual sync or increase frequency, if it's crucial.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-16-13 04:15 PM
  4. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    These are not bugs. First is caused by implementation of IMAP by Google. Long story short: they do not follow standards.
    The second is normal behavior. It's syncing not pushing. You can trigger manual sync or increase frequency, if it's crucial.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    Cha ching, we have a winner

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 04:26 PM
  5. williaml's Avatar
    If this (the first) is a known issue with how Google implements IMAP, then BlackBerry should take this into account when using Gmail accounts and make it behave as would be expected (delete means delete)...

    The average consumer doesn't care who's not following standards: if email doesn't work as expected on BB10 but does on iOS they will blame BlackBerry (Google can basically dictate it's own standards).

    Regarding the sync issue, there should be an option for immediate sync (at least updating the server when marked as read on the phone).

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 04:39 PM
  6. Nesverth's Avatar
    I experienced authentication problem, so every period of time the I must re enter password for my account, like my session was ended, I hope this is fixed in future leak
    07-16-13 04:49 PM
  7. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    For the first, I don't think so. What if I want to archive it, they should create a new button just for Google? Standards are standards but Google just ignoring them for years. For many parts of the web. It rather should be stopped.
    Microsoft did it with IE6 and ActiveX. The idea was great, the implementation is mediocre but the incompatibility killed it.
    For the second one, it was like that with BIS and it's a marginal problem. And would suck the battery. What if I open e-mail, start to read but decide to finish later. It really should sync up something then revoking it and draining my battery? If I'm reading emails on my mobile I couldn't do on my PC, so I wouldn't even notice it in 99% of the cases.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-16-13 04:49 PM
  8. leppa's Avatar
    If this (the first) is a known issue with how Google implements IMAP, then BlackBerry should take this into account when using Gmail accounts and make it behave as would be expected (delete means delete)...
    Did you ever use a desktop e-mail client with Gmail (e.g., Mozilla Thunderbird) or do you think it's only BlackBerry? Just try and see yourself...

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 04:50 PM
  9. williaml's Avatar
    I have not used a desktop client but I would think that on other phones with a Gmail App, it behaves as expected. The idea that some users are used to delete acting as an archive button is irrelevant: delete should delete.

    It would not be terribly difficult to create an exception to the IMAP protocol for Gmail (just recognize when it is a Gmail account, which the setup already does) which is probably one of the most widely used email systems.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 05:01 PM
  10. williaml's Avatar
    Also, regarding emails being marked as read, it is extremely annoying to be at my computer and have read the email only to have the LED continue blinking for 10 minutes leaving my only option to check on both devices (how am I supposed to know if it is a new notification, or the same old one, otherwise?).

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 05:04 PM
  11. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    I have not used a desktop client but I would think that on other phones with a Gmail App, it behaves as expected. The idea that some users are used to delete acting as an archive button is irrelevant: delete should delete.

    It would not be terribly difficult to create an exception to the IMAP protocol for Gmail (just recognize when it is a Gmail account, which the setup already does) which is probably one of the most widely used email systems.

    Posted via CB10
    Even if you and your friends starting to drive on the opposite side on the highway (suppose you drive a normal car with steering wheel on the left side), the rules won't change to British ones. If BlackBerry would wanted to support they could, but still it doesn't change the fact that even if Google want to use everything as it's comfortable for them, they should be able to. They role out services that's only compatible with Chrome. It's not innovation.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-16-13 05:08 PM
  12. williaml's Avatar
    I am not disagreeing that Google should follow standards, just saying that if comes to replacing Google services that they have used for years or returning a new phone that makes them frustrating to use, many potential customers will choose the latter.

    There is no need to get into a standoff with Google: this is a simple thing to support in the OS. Don't let ideology trump practicality when running a company.

    Posted via CB10
    07-16-13 05:44 PM
  13. geoffsdad's Avatar
    I had a Gmail issue with. 4543. Only time I had the issue. 24 hours with. 4633 and no Gmail issues

    Posted via CB10 on my Z10 featuring BBM Channel C0002FE04
    07-16-13 07:45 PM
  14. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    I am not disagreeing that Google should follow standards, just saying that if comes to replacing Google services that they have used for years or returning a new phone that makes them frustrating to use, many potential customers will choose the latter.

    There is no need to get into a standoff with Google: this is a simple thing to support in the OS. Don't let ideology trump practicality when running a company.

    Posted via CB10
    Thanks, but I'm not running BB, I'm not Thorstein Just kidding.

    And because you really don't get it, let me explain:
    • IMAP delete in case of GMail is archiving an e-mail. It always was like that and always will be. They advertised it, as "you never have to delete an e-mail again". If you want to delete it, you could move it to Spam folder, and your BB10 device support it.
    • Labels: IMAP don't have and will never have such features. They mimicking it by using folders (which is IMAP supported) as the labels. I never checked it (as I gave up on Google more than a year ago, and eliminated almost all of their services), but I'm pretty sure if one of your e-mails have multiple labels, it'll be downloaded in to multiple folders also.
    • "New" auto-sort inbox thingy: It's not even compatible with anything, it's messy as hell and as far as I heard from my friends seriously f**k up your rule based label sortings.
    • GTalkHangouts chats was integrated always, I don't know if it's still the case, but never was displayed through IMAP.
    • Tasks, or how they call it: you also cannot sync through IMAP.


    And for how nicely playing Google and how they are appreciating their loyal user-base. Windows Phones don't support CardDAV (contact sync) and CalDAV (calendar sync), only EAS (Exchange Active Sync). This January Google pulled the EAS support and cutting off hundreds of thousands users from their services. And I even read something about they will revoke CalDAV (I'm not a 100% sure about it) because they have a better protocol.

    So please let me know, if Google implement a new feature and it's not even compatible with the standards and protocols, others just have to follow, because they are Google? I told you, Microsoft did it in the time of IE6, never followed anything and they knew better than anybody else what's good for you. IE was around 90% popularity that time. It didn't work out and never will.
    And seriously, they're basically messing up these things so only they can roll out full feature set in their apps. How would you like these things if they wasn't called Google?
    Outlook.com provide the same functionality, works great, and Microsoft could implement everything through EAS. You don't lack any feature. This is how you do a service.

    EDIT: And I don't use any Android device myself (I always check my friends') since 2.3, but EAS support was barely functional for their factory e-mail client. You need to have a different app from Microsoft to use Outlook.com properly.
    And contacts? They even let you believe that they're synced but in reality nothing got synced. Lets say you wanted to save a number, created a new contact, type in name, and phone number, select outlook for contact source. And if you want to call it like an hour after, you cannot because it didn't saved it and never let you know. So you just lost it.
    And I'm not a 100% sure, but I think for proper Calendar support you were also needed the Hotmail/Outlook.com app. I'd complain about that.
    Last edited by Adam Szucs; 07-17-13 at 12:34 AM.
    07-17-13 12:19 AM
  15. williaml's Avatar
    I do get it (I have extensive engineering background)... I understand that Google doesn't follow universal standards, but they clearly have their own standards that works for their products (on the browser client I can delete OR archive).

    All I am saying is that the popularity of Gmail warrants the inclusion of support for it. You can call it what you want: perverted IMAP or GMAP (Google Message Access Protocol) for all I care. I just think that their protocol should be supported and I know it is possible (from their browser client and apps).

    I am not a CEO either, but what I am saying is that for the extra bit of development time to implement GMAP on BB10 the reward is well worth the risk that it will be obsolete in a few years (or require periodic updates).

    Edit: ESPECIALLY until there is a native Gmail app available (at least then there would be an alternative to using it in the Hub).

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 01:08 AM
  16. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    They won't. I'm almost sure about it. Why? Because as they're non-standard features so no official requirements are binding them. And Google has a history to randomly mess up these things because they want to add an another incompatible feature.
    Previously Opera (the browser) had to "optimize" they JavaScript engine just to open up GMail. Once they "fixed" it, then Google changed again.

    If you are a software engineer, you know that these are called work arounds. And if you ever used them, you also know that they tend to be buggy or broke easily because it's only working for a particular setup. With next update there's no guarantee that it'll work as supposed to be. That's why we have standards.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-17-13 01:30 AM
  17. williaml's Avatar
    I know workarounds are non-ideal, but I also know that Google wants as much market share as possible.

    I think that if BlackBerry approached Google and asked for the protocols and sufficient notice when they are to be updated, in order to better provide access to Google services, I doubt Google would say no (they don't maliciously change protocols, it's mainly to provide better service in their view).

    Now, as you pointed out, whether BlackBerry will do this is a completely different question than if they can...

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 01:36 AM
  18. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    I know workarounds are non-ideal, but I also know that Google wants as much market share as possible.

    I think that if BlackBerry approached Google and asked for the protocols and sufficient notice when they are to be updated, in order to better provide access to Google services, I doubt Google would say no (they don't maliciously change protocols, it's mainly to provide better service in their view).

    Now, as you pointed out, whether BlackBerry will do this is a completely different question than if they can...

    Posted via CB10
    Did you read the EAS part? Search for some articles about it. Microsoft would even paid for the service but Google said no.
    And yes, you're right, they want market share as any competing company. But they try to achieve it by not playing evenly. And it's nice that you believe they don't change it maliciously, but the truth is that they actually do. It's their track record.

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-17-13 01:44 AM
  19. williaml's Avatar
    The difference is that with EAS Google was being asked to support a protocol: I am saying that BlackBerry should ask how to support Google's protocol.

    Posted via CB10
    07-17-13 01:51 AM
  20. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    The difference is that with EAS Google was being asked to support a protocol: I am saying that BlackBerry should ask how to support Google's protocol.

    Posted via CB10
    And were back to square one, where Google's " do no evil " policy is gone for years. As far as I know, Google does not support EAS properly and according to standards on Android (maybe it changed with 4.x, but I highly doubt).
    Also get an iOS device or a WP and check how full featured the Google "experience" on those platforms. If something only works on your devices and environment, you are either stupid or do not have intention to make it work for others. And I think we can agree upon that Google's programmers are not stupid...

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-17-13 02:14 AM
  21. leppa's Avatar
    • IMAP delete in case of GMail is archiving an e-mail. It always was like that and always will be. They advertised it, as "you never have to delete an e-mail again". If you want to delete it, you could move it to Spam folder, and your BB10 device support it.
    NEVER EVER move to Spam messages from people you want to continue communicating with! After doing this few times for the same sender, Gmail will "learn" that this person is a spammer and will start moving all his future messages to Spam automatically.

    Move unneeded messages to [Gmail]/Trash folder - this will remove them from all labels and mark them for deletion. This behavior is actually described somewhere in Gmail help.
    Adam Szucs likes this.
    07-17-13 02:19 AM
  22. Adam Szucs's Avatar
    NEVER EVER move to Spam messages from people you want to continue communicating with! After doing this few times for the same sender, Gmail will "learn" that this person is a spammer and will start moving all his future messages to Spam automatically.

    Move unneeded messages to [Gmail]/Trash folder - this will remove them from all labels and mark them for deletion. This behavior is actually described somewhere in Gmail help.
    Thanks for mentioning it. I know that but forgot... and you are absolutely right. My only excuse that I was before my morning coffee

    Posted via CB10 from my awesome Z10
    07-17-13 02:36 AM
  23. Ecm's Avatar
    All,
    I'm happy to report that with a specific combination of IMAP settings and syncing only specific IMAP folders, delete on device actually results in moving items to trash instead of archiving them.

    I didn't find the solution - it was another diligent CB member. I can't find the post right now (I'm camping and am on 2g), but I'll post the link and settings on my return to civilization. If I return...
    Last edited by Elessar.cm; 07-17-13 at 07:51 AM.
    williaml likes this.
    07-17-13 07:32 AM
  24. Ecm's Avatar
    All,
    I'm happy to report that with a specific combination of IMAP settings and syncing only specific IMAP folders, delete on device actually results in moving items to trash instead of archiving them.

    I didn't find the solution - it was another diligent CB member. I can't find the post right now (I'm camping and am on 2g), but I'll post the link and settings on my return to civilization. If I return...
    OK, I decided to return after all...

    Here's the thread with the IMAP folder and IMAP settings that finally worked for me to get Gmail messages deleted from my device to also be moved to Trash in Gmail.
    Post #4 from kleinhev @ http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...8/#post8638154
    Both the folder settings and the IMAP settings must be exactly as shown, or it doesn't work. Also, note that it takes the time period of whatever your Sync Interval is set at, plus about 5-10 minutes for the message to be moved from Inbox to Trash. This worked for me, and 4 of 5 Gmail using friends. I can't figure what the problem is for the 5th.

    Yes, it's a work-around. No it shouldn't be so finicky. Hope this helps. ~ecm.

    Edit: link corrected
    Last edited by Elessar.cm; 07-21-13 at 09:46 AM.
    07-21-13 09:28 AM
  25. Gearheadaddy's Avatar
    Williaml, I don't have Hotmail or Outlook. My Google Calendar syncs on all my devices. Windows Vista, Windows 7, PlayBook, Z10, Evo3d (android) .

    Posted via CB10
    07-21-13 09:44 AM

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