12-08-14 05:40 AM
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  1. huungryshark's Avatar
    *cough* uhm, so I wanted to see the PhoneDog iPhone 6 Plus vs. BlackBerry Passport 30 day challenge...on OS 10.3.1.

    Attachment 313269

    Now I truly feel like an iSheep <_<

    Posted via CB10
    10.3.1 sucks

    Z10 (red) OS10.2.2.1531 Q5 (red) OS10.3.0.1418
    dejanh likes this.
    11-09-14 03:06 PM
  2. dejanh's Avatar
    10.3.1 sucks

    Z10 (red) OS10.2.2.1531 Q5 (red) OS10.3.0.1418
    Whatever, HTML5 is everywhere. Flash is dead! /Sarcasm

    Posted via CB10
    anon(5818411) likes this.
    11-09-14 03:37 PM
  3. SDM7171's Avatar
    This is the one thing I love about my BB10. Hopefully we will still have an option to use others that would be very annoying that sites which used to work no longer do.

    Pretty much every non-subscription sport/tv streaming application.

    Posted via CB10
    Are the npn-sub sites flash or not flash?

    My experience is that non-sub sites need adverts, which are html5. Subscription sites have less impetus to change away from flash.
    11-09-14 05:18 PM
  4. cbcoza's Avatar
    You can't improve on and support something that the manufacturer of the code (1) has closed source for and (2) has deprecated and thus is no longer developing.

    You're shooting at the wrong people here.
    Cannot stress how important this statement is!


    Z3 Powered By QNX Z3STJ100-1/10.3.1.1016
    11-09-14 11:04 PM
  5. allbetsareoff29's Avatar
    1) No one here has an issue with with Adobe closing development.
    2) No one here has an issue with with BlackBerry closing flash development.
    3) What I do have an issue with is: why not let the old, unsupported, security-hole filled flash stay? There is 0 downside. It's already "developed". It was already in 10.3.0.x. Why not keep it there? It seems like more trouble taking it out than keeping it (because they had to go to core os functionality and physically remove it). If blackberry thinks it's a security concerns: fine, disable it in browser by default. Hell, give me a warning message every time I try to enable it. Hell, have a group policy that doesn't allow corporate blackberries to enable this. If blackberry thinks it's such a security concern that it doesn't want it to be shipped with devices: fine, but leave me an option to side load it. Would it be so bad for them to leave underlying flash engine in and just disable access to it by default? (but leaving tech-savvy consumers with some option of getting to this underlying flash engine via side loaded app or some other means).

    That, my friends, is what I have an issue with

    Posted via CB10
    sylvaing likes this.
    11-09-14 11:43 PM
  6. wojt7's Avatar
    This.
    11-10-14 12:44 AM
  7. conite's Avatar
    1) No one here has an issue with with Adobe closing development.
    2) No one here has an issue with with BlackBerry closing flash development.
    3) What I do have an issue with is: why not let the old, unsupported, security-hole filled flash stay? There is 0 downside. It's already "developed". It was already in 10.3.0.x. Why not keep it there? It seems like more trouble taking it out than keeping it (because they had to go to core os functionality and physically remove it). If blackberry thinks it's a security concerns: fine, disable it in browser by default. Hell, give me a warning message every time I try to enable it. Hell, have a group policy that doesn't allow corporate blackberries to enable this. If blackberry thinks it's such a security concern that it doesn't want it to be shipped with devices: fine, but leave me an option to side load it. Would it be so bad for them to leave underlying flash engine in and just disable access to it by default? (but leaving tech-savvy consumers with some option of getting to this underlying flash engine via side loaded app or some other means).

    That, my friends, is what I have an issue with

    Posted via CB10
    Good points.

    But it is hard work to continue to develop the browser around flash compatibility. There is also the issue of licensing fees.

    I would imagine that BlackBerry did some type of analysis that shows the user base is small and not worth accommodating any further.

    It happens sometimes that people get stuck on the wrong side of progress.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    11-10-14 06:13 AM
  8. dejanh's Avatar
    Good points.

    But it is hard work to continue to develop the browser around flash compatibility. There is also the issue of licensing fees.

    I would imagine that BlackBerry did some type of analysis that shows the user base is small and not worth accommodating any further.

    It happens sometimes that people get stuck on the wrong side of progress.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    I think you're confusing progress with cost saving measures.

    Posted via CB10
    eyesopen1111 likes this.
    11-10-14 09:50 AM
  9. conite's Avatar
    I think you're confusing progress with cost saving measures.

    Posted via CB10
    I think you underestimate the challenges involved in continually developing a browser around supporting flash v11 from almost 3 years ago.

    Google did not drop it to save a buck. There are real, non-trivial, technical reasons for it.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    11-10-14 11:27 AM
  10. OneofLittleHarmony's Avatar
    I think you underestimate the challenges involved in continually developing a browser around supporting flash v11 from almost 3 years ago.

    Google did not drop it to save a buck. There are real, non-trivial, technical reasons for it.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    I still feel it would be none too difficult to keep some ability to use it. Maybe blackberry could release a second browser on blackberry world.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-14 01:23 PM
  11. papped's Avatar
    Part of the reason why having flash built into the browser/system is a problem...

    People can still download the adobe flash .apk (from Adobe's website) and install it on android with no issues, basically forever. BB10 is screwed in terms of workarounds.
    11-10-14 02:08 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    Part of the reason why having flash built into the browser/system is a problem...

    People can still download the adobe flash .apk (from Adobe's website) and install it on android with no issues, basically forever. BB10 is screwed in terms of workarounds.
    You may see that implementation as a positive, but from a security point of view, that is not a very good way of doing things.

    It will also not be forever, as it will suddenly not be supported by future releases of android browsers as they evolve and move away from their current code.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    11-10-14 02:14 PM
  13. papped's Avatar
    You may see that implementation as a positive, but from a security point of view, that is not a very good way of doing things.

    It will also not be forever, as it will suddenly not be supported by future releases of android browsers as they evolve and move away from their current code.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    "Security" means people wouldn't be allowing other source installs in the first place. That's the point of workarounds, you use your own judgement. Again, Android users have options, BB10 users won't.

    I bet you can easily find a way to utilize flash in an Android browser for the next 5-10 years assuming the platform is still around. That's plenty...
    11-10-14 02:17 PM
  14. allbetsareoff29's Avatar
    Good points.

    But it is hard work to continue to develop the browser around flash compatibility. There is also the issue of licensing fees.

    I would imagine that BlackBerry did some type of analysis that shows the user base is small and not worth accommodating any further.

    It happens sometimes that people get stuck on the wrong side of progress.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    So don't. Don't develop. No one is asking you to. Leave it undeveloped and unsupported. Leave it the way you had it in 10.3.0.x. Like I said, no one is upset that BlackBerry stopped developing it. Leave it in.

    As far as licensing issues: I think you're wrong here and this is why: Because flash let's you download the apk from their own website - to me means there is no licensing. Flash is pretty much "distributing" it's flash apk as freeware by allowing anyone to download it. That's why I don't believe BlackBerry paid anything to adobe for flash support. If something is readily available to public for free FROM YOU (adobe), you can't charge licensing fee for it.

    Posted via CB10
    11-10-14 11:00 PM
  15. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    So don't. Don't develop. No one is asking you to. Leave it undeveloped and unsupported. Leave it the way you had it in 10.3.0.x. Like I said, no one is upset that BlackBerry stopped developing it. Leave it in.

    As far as licensing issues: I think you're wrong here and this is why: Because flash let's you download the apk from their own website - to me means there is no licensing. Flash is pretty much "distributing" it's flash apk as freeware by allowing anyone to download it. That's why I don't believe BlackBerry paid anything to adobe for flash support. If something is readily available to public for free FROM YOU (adobe), you can't charge licensing fee for it.

    Posted via CB10
    To my knowledge the only "licensing" involved is just to say that the Flash software etc. all came from Flash and is owned by Adobe, blah blah..
    Just the credit part.

    Including browser support for displaying Flash content is open source (in terms of you can integrate it if you want to) is it not..?

    Praise be unto our Lord Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.0.1418
    11-11-14 12:22 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    So don't. Don't develop. No one is asking you to. Leave it undeveloped and unsupported. Leave it the way you had it in 10.3.0.x. Like I said, no one is upset that BlackBerry stopped developing it. Leave it in.

    Posted via CB10
    You do not understand my point. I'm not talking about developing Flash. I'm talking about the ongoing development of the BlackBerry browser. Having to constantly work around ensuring compatibility with mobile flash v11 from 2011 hampers development. It is not an easy thing. It costs time and money and may even impede new features.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    11-11-14 05:59 AM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    You do not understand my point. I'm not talking about developing Flash. I'm talking about the ongoing development of the BlackBerry browser. Having to constantly work around ensuring compatibility with mobile flash v11 from 2011 hampers development. It is not an easy thing. It costs time and money and may even impede new features.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    Mobile Flash on BB10 is BlackBerry's version, not Adobe, and it is up to date, not from 2011. They have been developing Flash in house after agreeing with Adobe that they can do this since the PlayBook days. Please go and read the Wikipedia page I posted earlier.
    11-11-14 04:22 PM
  18. niss63's Avatar
    Just got serious up in here. Tried to watch "The Good Wife" on CBS.com and couldn't because they use flash.

    :|

    Posted via CB10
    11-11-14 04:55 PM
  19. wojt7's Avatar
    How come? Nobody uses Flash these days says all the experts here. That CBS website should be shut down.
    sylvaing and eyesopen1111 like this.
    11-11-14 05:52 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Mobile Flash on BB10 is BlackBerry's version, not Adobe, and it is up to date, not from 2011. They have been developing Flash in house after agreeing with Adobe that they can do this since the PlayBook days. Please go and read the Wikipedia page I posted earlier.
    Go to http://www.adobe.com/software/flash/about/

    If you are running 10.2.2.1531 for instance, it will say you are running Flash v11,1,121,199.

    BlackBerry is roughly keeping up with security patches to v11, but not paralleling Adobe's desktop development which currently resides at v15.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    Last edited by conite; 11-11-14 at 09:39 PM.
    11-11-14 05:52 PM
  21. allbetsareoff29's Avatar
    You do not understand my point. I'm not talking about developing Flash. I'm talking about the ongoing development of the BlackBerry browser. Having to constantly work around ensuring compatibility with mobile flash v11 from 2011 hampers development. It is not an easy thing. It costs time and money and may even impede new features.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    Ah now I see your point. But mine still stands. Leave flash in and say "enabling this might break stuff" or "support for feature discontinued. Use at own risk". Have it disabled by default but leaving user with option to enable.

    That way devs don't need to worry about compatibility (which fixes your concern) and I still get the choice to re-enable it or load older browser version (which fixes my concern).

    These two don't have to be mutually exclusive

    Posted via CB10
    11-12-14 01:43 PM
  22. conite's Avatar
    Ah now I see your point. But mine still stands. Leave flash in and say "enabling this might break stuff" or "support for feature discontinued. Use at own risk". Have it disabled by default but leaving user with option to enable.

    That way devs don't need to worry about compatibility (which fixes your concern) and I still get the choice to re-enable it or load older browser version (which fixes my concern).

    These two don't have to be mutually exclusive

    Posted via CB10
    So as not to hamper development of our own browser, I would rather leave it clean. That would also get BlackBerry out of the whole licensing thing as a bonus.

    I think those who are desperate for Flash can be made happy by a third party browser.

    I myself have found Photon Browser to work very well. Alternatively, maybe a Dev out there can make use of the Android Mobile Flash 11 apk, and write a down-and-dirty Android browser specifically meant for us bb10 users. I find Firefox a bit too bulky and has too many bells and whistles for basic streaming.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    11-12-14 03:44 PM
  23. anon(5818411)'s Avatar

    I think those who are desperate for Flash can be made happy by a third party browser.

    I myself have found Photon Browser to work very well. Alternatively, maybe a Dev out there can make use of the Android Mobile Flash 11 apk, and write a down-and-dirty Android browser specifically meant for us bb10 users. I find Firefox a bit too bulky and has too many bells and whistles for basic streaming.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1016
    I talked to a couple devs and they said it's way too much work to bring a flash browser natively to bb10.

    Not sure if you noticed but there aren't a lot of 3rd party devs
    Posted via CB10
    11-12-14 05:18 PM
  24. papped's Avatar
    There isn't likely to be a useful workaround...
    If you really want flash you are so much better off using an android tablet or phone.
    11-12-14 06:25 PM
  25. coldfir3's Avatar
    #BringFlashBack

    '30 on .1016
    11-12-14 11:55 PM
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