12-08-14 05:40 AM
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  1. Adam Stansbery's Avatar
    Not exactly side loading but with SACHESI you can remove the new browser and install the one for 10.2.1. I did it with my Z10 and flash is working but I haven't tested it much.
    m3mb3rsh1p likes this.
    11-30-14 05:04 PM
  2. gokulesh's Avatar
    10.3.1. is an incremental change from 10.3. No reason at all why it would not be compatible when it works just fine in 10.3. This is purely a cost savings measure. Logic goes as follows. We're enterprise now. Enterprises don't need Flash so let's kill the development of it. Remember, BlackBerry sourced Flash from Adobe and supported it independently. I would not be surprised if they cut the group that was responsible for it.

    At this point it's like they are giving a big middle finger to consumers saying "there really isn't a reason for you to go with our platform or devices so why don't you just run along to Android or iOS".

    Posted via CB10
    It is a cost saving measure. But has nothing to do with "we are enterprise now" that everyone is accusing BlackBerry of. Anyone following the quarterly reports and JC's Q&A would know.

    BlackBerry has indicated they will save 800 million $ or approximately 200 million $ quarterly once they drop adobe air and flash.

    They announced the savings couple of quarter ago without naming everything. They did however announce adobe air was going to be discontinued. Well flash is another.

    So why? At investors day BlackBerry indicated that by end of next year SAF will drop by another 50%.

    For the company to survive it has to cut costs to match the revenue they know they are losing. This is elementary.

    They have to stabilize their revenue and show a profit.

    Lots of comments here that I just shake my head at. To those I say, but BlackBerry, become the majority share holder and let us see you do better. Clearly the previous folks who ran the company weren't astute business wise otherwise the company would not have gotten itself into trouble like it did.

    JC is an astute business man. Some will leave the platform but if that is the price for the company to stabilize, turn a profit and slowly starting growing again then it is worth it.

    So instead of going on a rant about loss of flash being constructive might help.

    BlackBerry is asking which websites currently use flash that are useful to us in the betazone.

    Create list and send it to them. Then they can work on a plan to mitigate the pact of loss of flash.


    Posted via CB10
    11-30-14 05:22 PM
  3. gokulesh's Avatar
    I don't see this survey either.

    Posted via CB10
    It is for those who are on the official OS beta.

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-14 05:23 PM
  4. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    It is for those who are on the official OS beta.

    Posted via CB10
    That's actually really funny since that gives the middle finger to the majority of 10.3 'official' users who are using the BlackBerry Passport..


    Praise be unto our Lord Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.0.1418
    11-30-14 05:49 PM
  5. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    It is a cost saving measure. But has nothing to do with "we are enterprise now" that everyone is accusing BlackBerry of. Anyone following the quarterly reports and JC's Q&A would know.

    BlackBerry has indicated they will save 800 million $ or approximately 200 million $ quarterly once they drop adobe air and flash.

    They announced the savings couple of quarter ago without naming everything. They did however announce adobe air was going to be discontinued. Well flash is another.

    So why? At investors day BlackBerry indicated that by end of next year SAF will drop by another 50%.

    For the company to survive it has to cut costs to match the revenue they know they are losing. This is elementary.

    They have to stabilize their revenue and show a profit.

    Lots of comments here that I just shake my head at. To those I say, but BlackBerry, become the majority share holder and let us see you do better. Clearly the previous folks who ran the company weren't astute business wise otherwise the company would not have gotten itself into trouble like it did.

    JC is an astute business man. Some will leave the platform but if that is the price for the company to stabilize, turn a profit and slowly starting growing again then it is worth it.

    So instead of going on a rant about loss of flash being constructive might help.

    BlackBerry is asking which websites currently use flash that are useful to us in the betazone.

    Create list and send it to them. Then they can work on a plan to mitigate the pact of loss of flash.


    Posted via CB10
    Be constructive? I'd say this to Chen: it costs 9 times more money to gain a customer than it does to keep one that you already have. It is certainly true that weakening your already ailing OS by cutting Adobe Air, Adobe Flash, and God knows what else will cost you customers and make BlackBerry even less attractive when compared to the competition.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    Norg likes this.
    11-30-14 06:14 PM
  6. allbetsareoff29's Avatar
    +1 ^^

    Posted via CB10
    11-30-14 06:52 PM
  7. Shifty88's Avatar
    Be constructive? I'd say this to Chen: it costs 9 times more money to gain a customer than it does to keep one that you already have. It is certainly true that weakening your already ailing OS by cutting Adobe Air, Adobe Flash, and God knows what else will cost you customers and make BlackBerry even less attractive when compared to the competition.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    As far as I know Flash isn't supported on any of the competition's phones either so I fail to see the point of your argument.
    app_Developer likes this.
    11-30-14 07:54 PM
  8. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    As far as I know Flash isn't supported on any of the competition's phones either so I fail to see the point of your argument.
    Here's the point: the BB10 browser through 10.3.0.14XX is the only natively coded flash support in the BB10 software ecosystem. From 10.3.1 onwards there has been no such natively coded solution.

    On the other hand, iOS and Android have multiple, natively coded third party apps designed to handle flash content. In fact, if you've been following the debate, many BlackBerry faithful are hoping that an Android app flash solution can partially work to lessen the gap left by the lack of native flash support in 10.3.1.

    So, you see, both Android and iOS DO have natively coded flash support (multiple apps each), it's only BlackBerry that doesn't. I hope that clears that part up for you.

    The deeper problem is that BlackBerry's short-term approach, ie cost-cut-its-way-to-balance-sheet pseudo-profitability, cannot prevail. BlackBerry is lessening its competitiveness precisely when it's not competitive enough. Plus, Google is tightening the reigns on Android with Google Services, so the piggy-backing strategy has an increasingly risky future.

    What BlackBerry's smartphone line of business needs are hit smartphones that will sell millions upon millions of phones. Not weirdo Passports that'll be lucky to sell a few hundred thousand phones nor underpowered low to mid end fleet phones that people will only use if their bosses make them or if the phone is provided by the company. This means all-touch phones. We need to move UNITS to get Devs to get an ecosystem that can survive.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    11-30-14 09:07 PM
  9. conite's Avatar

    What BlackBerry's smartphone line of business needs are hit smartphones that will sell millions upon millions of phones. Not weirdo Passports that'll be lucky to sell a few hundred thousand phones nor underpowered low to mid end fleet phones that people will only use if their bosses make them or if the phone is provided by the company. This means all-touch phones. We need to move UNITS to get Devs to get an ecosystem that can survive.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA

    That ship has sailed. It was tried and it didn't work. BlackBerry could build the God Phone right now and they wouldn't make a dent in the consumer space. They need to come at this from a niche angle - stabilise the corporate segment by building "weirdo" and "mid tier fleet phones", and then maybe, someday, if they are even still interested, leverage that and try another push into the consumer market. My bet is on a continued corporate niche play, with some bleed off to people like me who also like their devices.

    BlackBerry is now and forever will be a smaller, leaner, services business where device sales are used to support the service side, not vice-versa.


    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1154
    app_Developer likes this.
    11-30-14 10:20 PM
  10. D3C0D3R's Avatar

    BlackBerry is now and forever will be a smaller, leaner, services business where device sales are used to support the service side, not vice-versa.
    I don't think that's the right state of mind at all. BlackBerry is trying to emphasize business, yes, but it's definitely not the "forever" plan for them nor for their customers.


    And to the point above, not many are on the "Android browser with flash support" train, including many others involved in business who rely on their BlackBerries but aren't tech savvy enough to use CrackBerry.

    MANY are upset about this decision to remove Flash and see this as a potential turning point in their decision about the efficiency of BlackBerry10.

    I know they won't be upgrading their OS past 10.3.0 for a long time unless there's something properly done to reintegrate it.

    Praise be unto our Lord Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.0.1418
    11-30-14 10:55 PM
  11. Norg's Avatar
    Be constructive? I'd say this to Chen: it costs 9 times more money to gain a customer than it does to keep one that you already have. It is certainly true that weakening your already ailing OS by cutting Adobe Air, Adobe Flash, and God knows what else will cost you customers and make BlackBerry even less attractive when compared to the competition.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    Agree wholeheartedly with your 9 to 1 ratio, would not make any sense to alienate existing OS 10 customers.

    Posted via my Kick@ss Q10.
    11-30-14 11:05 PM
  12. eyesopen1111's Avatar
    That ship has sailed. It was tried and it didn't work. BlackBerry could build the God Phone right now and they wouldn't make a dent in the consumer space. They need to come at this from a niche angle - stabilise the corporate segment by building "weirdo" and "mid tier fleet phones", and then maybe, someday, if they are even still interested, leverage that and try another push into the consumer market. My bet is on a continued corporate niche play, with some bleed off to people like me who also like their devices.

    BlackBerry is now and forever will be a smaller, leaner, services business where device sales are used to support the service side, not vice-versa.


    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1154
    I couldn't disagree more. BlackBerry can still sell a lot of phones, and if it intends to stay in the smartphone business, it had better figure out how to do just that. The same rules apply to everyone. BlackBerry just failed to do the bare minimum (produce, advertise, and support the distribution of competitive products) and it was punished by the market for its failure to produce.

    Producing the God Phone (which would have flash support, LOL) would be the equivalent of a revolution in smartphones and would, by definition, change the landscape in BlackBerry's favor. People would do anything for a God Phone and mass faith in BlackBerry would be restored.

    Make no mistake, the "niche" path that you describe is going to be the death of BlackBerry smartphones. It was probably always just a ruse designed to buy time, to make a little money, and perhaps to win some small value from a potential suitor for BlackBerry's ailing phone business (to be added to the value to the other BlackBerry parts).

    There's no getting around it: BlackBerry will be forced to build its own competitive ecosystem or else join the Google Alliance (or similar) or else quit smartphones. Microsoft can subsidize former Nokia. Amazon can subsidize Fire Phone. BlackBerry cannot subsidize BlackBerry smartphones for long.

    So this temporary retreat to "enterprise" and "loyalists" will not work for long at all because these are communication devices subject to the network effect and protected corporate domains. Without selling many units, the Devs don't show, the apps don't show, the BlackBerry network value diminishes, and the whole thing spirals downwards. Consequently, I don't think that the niche play can really work.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    12-01-14 12:00 AM
  13. dejanh's Avatar
    Somber view, but sadly not an implausible one.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-14 12:28 AM
  14. wojt7's Avatar
    BlackBerry has indicated they will save 800 million $ or approximately 200 million $ quarterly once they drop adobe air and flash.
    [/QUOTE=gokulesh;11124375]

    You must have messed up some zero's there. Can you post a link to BlackBerry statement about this.
    12-01-14 01:55 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    I couldn't disagree more. BlackBerry can still sell a lot of phones, and if it intends to stay in the smartphone business, it had better figure out how to do just that. The same rules apply to everyone. BlackBerry just failed to do the bare minimum (produce, advertise, and support the distribution of competitive products) and it was punished by the market for its failure to produce.

    Producing the God Phone (which would have flash support, LOL) would be the equivalent of a revolution in smartphones and would, by definition, change the landscape in BlackBerry's favor. People would do anything for a God Phone and mass faith in BlackBerry would be restored.

    Make no mistake, the "niche" path that you describe is going to be the death of BlackBerry smartphones. It was probably always just a ruse designed to buy time, to make a little money, and perhaps to win some small value from a potential suitor for BlackBerry's ailing phone business (to be added to the value to the other BlackBerry parts).

    There's no getting around it: BlackBerry will be forced to build its own competitive ecosystem or else join the Google Alliance (or similar) or else quit smartphones. Microsoft can subsidize former Nokia. Amazon can subsidize Fire Phone. BlackBerry cannot subsidize BlackBerry smartphones for long.

    So this temporary retreat to "enterprise" and "loyalists" will not work for long at all because these are communication devices subject to the network effect and protected corporate domains. Without selling many units, the Devs don't show, the apps don't show, the BlackBerry network value diminishes, and the whole thing spirals downwards. Consequently, I don't think that the niche play can really work.

    Z-30 / STA100-5 / 10.3.0.1418 / T-Mobile USA
    Agree to disagree then.

    BlackBerry will never, ever sell tons of phones to consumers. I still say that they are now a small, services company. Device sales are desirable, but not essential to this goal. If they can sell 10 million niche phones a year, they will keep making them - otherwise, they won't. This is not a temporary retreat. They no longer even have the infrastructure and capabilities to compete against Apple or Google even if they wanted to - which they don't. I'm with Chen and company on this one. BlackBerry is not a smartphone company anymore.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1154
    SnoozerBold likes this.
    12-01-14 06:23 AM
  16. RECOOL's Avatar
    I just got asked to fill out a survey on whether we need flash. It ask me for a list of websites that use flash. I don't remember to many.Can you guys post a list of sites with flash so I can stick it in the survey??
    12-01-14 06:55 AM
  17. dejanh's Avatar
    I just got asked to fill out a survey on whether we need flash. It ask me for a list of websites that use flash. I don't remember to many.Can you guys post a list of sites with flash so I can stick it in the survey??
    Every major news agency. CBC, CTV, BBC, Forbes, etc. If you look at this thread, one or two pages back you will find a ton of examples. Virtually any website in desktop mode will ask for Flash at some point while browsing.

    Sidenote, I think that survey is a load of crock. The results are skewed by the sheer fact that most won't even know how to switch their browser to desktop mode. Furthermore, you need tech savvy users to realize that when they get a missing plugin message that it is Flash you are missing. The sites don't always spell it out to you.

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-14 09:18 AM
  18. D3C0D3R's Avatar
    BlackBerry has indicated they will save 800 million $ or approximately 200 million $ quarterly once they drop adobe air and flash.

    You must have messed up some zero's there. Can you post a link to BlackBerry statement about this.
    I think I've got to agree here, seems a wee bit ridiculous to cost them about a billion dollars to support flash :/

    Praise be unto our Lord Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.0.1418
    anon(5818411) likes this.
    12-01-14 09:26 AM
  19. 1magine's Avatar
    I just got asked to fill out a survey on whether we need flash. It ask me for a list of websites that use flash. I don't remember to many.Can you guys post a list of sites with flash so I can stick it in the survey??
    NYC - ACRIS - ACRIS Main Options as well as virtually every municipality's tax and property records search sites. For basic searching, flash is not needed, but to view any document or property tax records its required. This is a prime reason most real estate attorneys and real estate paralegals have stayed with BB over Apple.
    12-01-14 09:40 AM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Every major news agency. CBC, CTV, BBC, Forbes, etc. If you look at this thread, one or two pages back you will find a ton of examples. Virtually any website in desktop mode will ask for Flash at some point while browsing.

    Sidenote, I think that survey is a load of crock. The results are skewed by the sheer fact that most won't even know how to switch their browser to desktop mode. Furthermore, you need tech savvy users to realize that when they get a missing plugin message that it is Flash you are missing. The sites don't always spell it out to you.

    Posted via CB10
    Problem is by switching to desktop mode on your device you are essentially duping the website into thinking you are on a pc - so an otherwise totally compliant html5 mobile site may now switch to Flash. Surely you can meet halfway on this and make sure you use mobile mode for video streaming sites that support html5.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1154
    anon8656116 likes this.
    12-01-14 09:42 AM
  21. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    Oh look Cbc working on Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1151 with desktop mode


    Flash Usefulness-img_20141201_111302.png


    Guess they don't require flash as stated.

    Posted via the Z to the 3 to the 0 // 2B6832B1
    m3mb3rsh1p likes this.
    12-01-14 10:13 AM
  22. gokulesh's Avatar
    I think I've got to agree here, seems a wee bit ridiculous to cost them about a billion dollars to support flash :/

    Praise be unto our Lord Squircle | Passport SQW100-1/10.3.0.1418
    You and the guy you replied to. Search for elephant analytics guy on seeking Alpha. He recently wrote and article explaining the details. And no not all the money is flash, if you read what I wrote I say adobe air and flash. And I am sure there are others.

    And no the zeros are not messed up.

    And no I couldn't be bothered to go search the links and provide so you can make semi informed decisions based on just what I would provide. But I have given you a starting point. So you have an opportunity to educate yourselves.





    Posted via CB10
    12-01-14 10:36 AM
  23. dejanh's Avatar
    @conite -perhaps. What I've noticed however is that some sites are being forced into mobile mode, despite desktop mode being enabled. I think this is the route they are taking.



    Posted via CB10
    Attached Thumbnails Flash Usefulness-img_20141201_083024.png  
    12-01-14 10:37 AM
  24. conite's Avatar
    @conite -perhaps. What I've noticed however is that some sites are being forced into mobile mode, despite desktop mode being enabled. I think this is the route they are taking.



    Posted via CB10
    I've seen that too from time to time. Maybe some sites are smart enough to recognise the BlackBerry desktop user agent, and then make the switch.

    I wonder if that is one of the reasons why BlackBerry is trying to accumulate a list of sites, so they can contact them and ask them to do this as well.

    Z30STA100-5/10.3.1.1154
    12-01-14 11:19 AM
  25. robsteve's Avatar
    I use pro.cnbc.com and subscribe to BNN. I live stream these channels. They both use flash. The BNN android app does not live stream.

    Out of curiosity, are there any paid streaming sites that use HTML5? I don't mean third party sites that stream content they are not licensed to stream, but legitimate sites streaming properly licenced content? Does HTML5 support DRM?

    Posted via CB10
    12-01-14 11:32 AM
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