07-01-14 03:15 PM
52 123
tools
  1. lawguyman's Avatar
    This isn't taking into account Android L that comes out in Sept / Oct that uses ART (Android Run Time) instead of Dalvik which is what Android currently runs.

    "ART is now the default runtime
    We actually saw this coming, but it's now confirmed. ART brings twice the performance over the current runtime, Dalvik. It has been available as a preview for KitKat, but is becoming the default (and from what I can tell, only) runtime in the L release. It's more memory efficient, more flexible, and faster. Even older devices will benefit from this."

    Attachment 281407

    [I/O 2014] Android L Performance Gains: ART Is Now The Default Runtime, Improved Graphics, And Drastically Better Battery Life With Project Volta
    I don't think that ART dramatically affects real world performance. ART has been an option on KIT KAT and there have been plenty of videos showing no real performance increase.



    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 07:06 AM
  2. Samikk1's Avatar
    Um that's not what this thread is about..

    Posted via CB10
    I know but you guys are crazy go get your self android phone... what you want from BlackBerry

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 07:35 AM
  3. dejanh's Avatar
    This isn't taking into account Android L that comes out in Sept / Oct that uses ART (Android Run Time) instead of Dalvik which is what Android currently runs.

    "ART is now the default runtime
    We actually saw this coming, but it's now confirmed. ART brings twice the performance over the current runtime, Dalvik. It has been available as a preview for KitKat, but is becoming the default (and from what I can tell, only) runtime in the L release. It's more memory efficient, more flexible, and faster. Even older devices will benefit from this."

    Attachment 281407

    [I/O 2014] Android L Performance Gains: ART Is Now The Default Runtime, Improved Graphics, And Drastically Better Battery Life With Project Volta
    I've used ART on my Nexus 5 the entire time I owned the phone and I can tell you that despite performance and battery life claims, I personally have not noticed any benefit of ART over Dalvik on a quad-core device like the Nexus 5. Blackberry needs to get themselves up to date with the Android runtime and get the bugs worked out. With the new hardware that will be more than sufficient to have a seamless experience.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    06-29-14 10:03 AM
  4. StephanieMaks's Avatar
    No they have Google apps... without the need for Google services... a "favor" for Apple before android took off.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    Last I heard, Google still makes a lot more money off ads served to iOS customers due to that "favour" than they make directly from Android. Is it still a favour when it's highly profitable?
    app_Developer likes this.
    06-29-14 10:12 AM
  5. 018125's Avatar
    Last I heard, Google still makes a lot more money off ads served to iOS customers due to that "favour" than they make directly from Android. Is it still a favour when it's highly profitable?
    I also found the favor comment quite amusing. Bless.

    Posted via CB10
    06-29-14 10:41 AM
  6. ofutur's Avatar
    Regarding ART, things have improved with L and I sincerely hope BlackBerry will switch to it before trying to add more Android APIs. It was designed to make it easy to run Android on different architectures and is exactly what BlackBerry needs to improve performance of its VM.
    vanthol likes this.
    06-30-14 05:04 AM
  7. systemvolker's Avatar
    Now you want a real android on BlackBerry.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 05:55 AM
  8. lawguyman's Avatar
    Regarding ART, things have improved with L and I sincerely hope BlackBerry will switch to it before trying to add more Android APIs. It was designed to make it easy to run Android on different architectures and is exactly what BlackBerry needs to improve performance of its VM.
    How have things improved with L? I haven't seen any comparison between it and Dalvik.

    BlackBerry claims that it is supporting all Android APIs now. L claims to add 5,000 more.

    The good think is that Google is releasing this stuff earlier now. Maybe BlackBerry can skip KitKat and jump right to whatever L will be.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 07:48 AM
  9. ofutur's Avatar
    How have things improved with L? I haven't seen any comparison between it and Dalvik.

    BlackBerry claims that it is supporting all Android APIs now. L claims to add 5,000 more.

    The good think is that Google is releasing this stuff earlier now. Maybe BlackBerry can skip KitKat and jump right to whatever L will be.
    Watch the keynote:


    BlackBerry has never claimed to be supporting all APIs. If they were, we would have Kitkat. They'll keep cherry picking the APIs they need from future version of Android.
    I don't see L compatibility coming before Q3 2015, but I don't see why we couldn't get ART earlier.
    06-30-14 07:58 AM
  10. lawguyman's Avatar
    Watch the keynote:


    BlackBerry has never claimed to be supporting all APIs. If they were, we would have Kitkat. They'll keep cherry picking the APIs they need from future version of Android.
    I don't see L compatibility coming before Q3 2015, but I don't see why we couldn't get ART earlier.
    The Android road map states this with respect to the 4.3 update that landed in May "the goal is to support all current features and APIs available on the Android runtime today and evaluate new features and APIs for inclusion.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 09:24 AM
  11. dustmalik's Avatar
    The Android road map states this with respect to the 4.3 update that landed in May "the goal is to support all current features and APIs available on the Android runtime today and evaluate new features and APIs for inclusion.

    Posted via CB10
    I don't think there is any way they can ever support all APIs without being a member of the Open Handset Alliance, considering that Google Maps Android API v2 requires Google play services.

    EDIT: never mind. I misread your comment.

    Posted via CB10 using my Gorgeous Z30
    06-30-14 09:40 AM
  12. ofutur's Avatar
    The Android road map states this with respect to the 4.3 update that landed in May "the goal is to support all current features and APIs available on the Android runtime today and evaluate new features and APIs for inclusion.
    All features and API of 4.3 as opposed to offering the minimum an app needs to run in order to force devs to go native. That ship has sailed.
    06-30-14 09:43 AM
  13. lawguyman's Avatar
    All features and API of 4.3 as opposed to offering the minimum an app needs to run in order to force devs to go native. That ship has sailed.
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

    It seems BlackBerry has made, or wants to, make available all Android (open source) APIs.

    What else does an App need to run, are you talking about the non open source bits?

    My first post in this thread said that BlackBerry needs to leave a door open for the user to choose to seek out Google framework and services. It is one thing not to offer it. It is another thing to block it from working altogether. You can get Google framework on Kindle or on Jolla. Why does BlackBerry persist on blocking it?

    At one time that decision made sense, BlackBerry was steering the platform toward native apps. Now, it no longer makes any sense. Android is THE source for Apps now.

    Posted via CB10
    06-30-14 10:04 AM
  14. newbbguy25's Avatar
    this is def. not acceptable. you can claim you run xxx amount of android app, but that falls apart real quick when people start using it. partnership with amazon means nothing if it doesn't run smooth and fast. can't imagine anyone using another OS with native app think andriod runtime is acceptable.
    06-30-14 12:37 PM
  15. dejanh's Avatar
    this is def. not acceptable. you can claim you run xxx amount of android app, but that falls apart real quick when people start using it. partnership with amazon means nothing if it doesn't run smooth and fast. can't imagine anyone using another OS with native app think andriod runtime is acceptable.
    Respectfully I have to disagree. Majority of Android devices out there do not run Android apps or the OS for that matter very well. Flagship devices do for a while until general Android lag sets in even in most of those cases. There are not really any perfect Android devices. With that said, if you so desire native Android then buy an Android. We're taking about improving the runtime, not running Android as a native OS.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    06-30-14 03:43 PM
  16. newbbguy25's Avatar
    Respectfully I have to disagree. Majority of Android devices out there do not run Android apps or the OS for that matter very well. Flagship devices do for a while until general Android lag sets in even in most of those cases. There are not really any perfect Android devices. With that said, if you so desire native Android then buy an Android. We're taking about improving the runtime, not running Android as a native OS.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    passport is a flagship device right? assuming it will be priced similar to other companies' flagship devices, then why would you try to compare to 20dollar android devices that still running below android 4.4? What was the last android device and what version you used that it started lagging like the one shown in the video? I got the HTC M8 and i dont remembered last time i lagged like that. There will be occasional hiccups, but that's expected from any phone, but not lag like that.

    Also, the so called lag over time is not something most new flagship android device have. I'm not going to get into the technical aspect of it, but if you been following android you know they fixed that.

    i also, dont get what is the point of your post about "we're taking about improving the runtime, not running android as a native OS"? why would people ever cared about that? ppl just want to know if it runs smooth or not. that's bottom line. you don't come out and say u will get 400k apps from amazon store and it runs like crap.
    06-30-14 04:16 PM
  17. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    @newbbguy25 The only reason I run android apps is because it is not part or the OS, but partitioned off so to speak. And, yes, I am on the android CB app because it runs great and is more feature rich than native. I run a lot of android apps as oppose to the bative versions as they are updated mo frequently.

    Currently on Z10 10.3.0.296 with a whole lot of stuff blended in from other OS versions including the Porsche Design clock which I still love. I can say that my phone is one of a kind. Pretty sure no one has the same blend as me, and I couldn't replicate it if I had to.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    06-30-14 08:30 PM
  18. ofutur's Avatar
    I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

    It seems BlackBerry has made, or wants to, make available all Android (open source) APIs.
    Yes, but each Android release matches an API level, so 4.4 kitkat has more APIs than 4.3.
    Here is what's we'll be missing
    https://developer.android.com/about/...ns/kitkat.html
    07-01-14 05:23 AM
  19. tomh235's Avatar
    Going to be interesting to see what happens if/when BlackBerry implement ART in bb10. From my understanding art compiles the application into native code at the point of installation. I am wondering if this means that BlackBerry could compile the apps off the device in the cloud meaning that they could constantly be tweaking and improving how apps are run and implement ad-hock fixes for popular applications that don't run particularly well. From how I see it, there would no longer need to be a 'runtime' as such, your phone would upload the apk to a BlackBerry server and it would spit out a native version of the app for installation, fully optimised to the device.

    This is all speculation though, I have no idea what they might do, it just seemed like a better solution to me than having a 'one size fits all' runtime on the device considering how ART appears to work. Do any devs have any input on this?

    Posted from my Z or Q!
    07-01-14 08:47 AM
  20. tickerguy's Avatar
    ART is simply how Google decided to deal with the fact that "not all the world's an ARM"; their original design decision in this regard was stupid as it essentially locked Android to a particular processor.
    07-01-14 09:47 AM
  21. dejanh's Avatar
    passport is a flagship device right? assuming it will be priced similar to other companies' flagship devices, then why would you try to compare to 20dollar android devices that still running below android 4.4? What was the last android device and what version you used that it started lagging like the one shown in the video? I got the HTC M8 and i dont remembered last time i lagged like that. There will be occasional hiccups, but that's expected from any phone, but not lag like that.

    Also, the so called lag over time is not something most new flagship android device have. I'm not going to get into the technical aspect of it, but if you been following android you know they fixed that.

    i also, dont get what is the point of your post about "we're taking about improving the runtime, not running android as a native OS"? why would people ever cared about that? ppl just want to know if it runs smooth or not. that's bottom line. you don't come out and say u will get 400k apps from amazon store and it runs like crap.
    I do follow Android. In fact right now I'm posting this from my LG G2. I still disagree that stability and slowness issues have been addressed. Our of the three platforms that I use, Android, Blackberry 10, and iOS, Android is hands down plagued with the worst performance relative to the power of the device it is running on, and the worst stability of all three.

    Posted via CrackBerry App
    07-01-14 01:12 PM
  22. systemvolker's Avatar
    BlackBerry shouldn't rely on android apps.
    They need to focus on their own software system and always try to negotiate and get more app devs for BlackBerry 10. (which I think that's what they're doing now.)

    For now, android runtime is saving its @** from getting the coffin nailed with BlackBerry inside. What about in the future? Android is evolving too. When android gets the security of their os, where and what should BlackBerry go and do?

    What they're doing right now is a disaster. Making employees lose their jobs, company is gambling, company could be running out of budget. Lots of mistakes made before which are the big cause of problems they're facing right now.

    They should get a young smart (teenager) software engineers or designer and make them work the veterans. Young kids are the future.

    Posted via CB10
    07-01-14 02:05 PM
  23. yessuz's Avatar
    At the start blackberry should have paid app developers to develop native apps for the mainstream apps
    No **** sherlock

    Posted via CB10 on glorious Z10 powered by 10.2.1.3175
    07-01-14 02:40 PM
  24. Dave Bourque's Avatar
    They aren't using the android runtime by choice. They were unsuccessful at getting companies to build native BB10 apps. So it left them to solve the solution by building a better android runtime. What would you have them do? They don't have extra money to carrot developers into the BB10 platform so this is the most economically sound solution.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    07-01-14 02:46 PM
  25. LP_Rigg's Avatar
    They aren't using the android runtime by choice. They were unsuccessful at getting companies to build native BB10 apps. So it left them to solve the solution by building a better android runtime. What would you have them do? They don't have extra money to carrot developers into the BB10 platform so this is the most economically sound solution.

    Z10STL100-3/10.2.1.3175
    And half of the native apps rarely, if ever, get updated. I have migrated from native to many android apps and most perform quite well. If they didn't, I would have stayed with the native versions. Waze and Tunein are two that are much better than the native counter parts. And Twitter, Facebook and WatchESPN are equally good. Honestly, at this point, I don't care if they are native or not if they load quickly and run as expected.
    07-01-14 02:55 PM
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