Built for Business - Learn more about BlackBerry KEY2
09-14-18 09:51 PM
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  1. JJBBgreat's Avatar
    I wonder what the thinking was that led TCL to build an unspectacular, mid-range phone instead of a kick-butt, take no prisoners, top-of-line model?

    And no one needs to rush in and tell me a better phone would have cost more. Well, of course. The thing is that Blackberry has always attracted the business crowd that can afford a higher priced phone and, I suspect, wants a high quality phone with good function (notice: I said function, not specs, as in a nicely functioning camera, speakers, cell signal, etc, regardless of the specs).

    The KEY2 is getting hammered for being mediocre. Forget the price and build something impressive, that works well! People who want a keyboard or who think they want a keyboard will pay for that!
    Hphv likes this.
    09-04-18 12:20 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I wonder what the thinking was that led TCL to build an unspectacular, mid-range phone instead of a kick-butt, take no prisoners, top-of-line model?

    And no one needs to rush in and tell me a better phone would have cost more. Well, of course. The thing is that Blackberry has always attracted the business crowd that can afford a higher priced phone and, I suspect, wants a high quality phone with good function (notice: I said function, not specs, as in a nicely functioning camera, speakers, cell signal, etc, regardless of the specs).

    The KEY2 is getting hammered for being mediocre. Forget the price and build something impressive, that works well! People who want a keyboard or who think they want a keyboard will pay for that!
    It's all about price point and price sensitivity.

    Last year we had one device at $549, and this year we have two devices at $399 and $649. Perhaps if the LE does fairly well, there will be more room at the top end to move up. But if the extra $100 does not convert into sales, then there will be pressure to go back down.
    09-04-18 12:23 PM
  3. JJBBgreat's Avatar
    It's all about price point and price sensitivity.
    Maybe. I think it's all about sales. I believe a high quality, well reviewed and recommended, expensive phone goes further than an affordable unit of forgettable quality and performance.
    09-04-18 01:27 PM
  4. conite's Avatar
    Maybe. I think it's all about sales. I believe a high quality, well reviewed and recommended, expensive phone goes further than an affordable unit of forgettable quality and performance.
    To say "forgettable" is not accurate, as most KEY² customers highly value the physical keyboard, and consider it a very decent upgrade to the KEYᵒⁿᵉ.

    The KEY series is unlikely to convert slab users, so you have to consider how many customers you would LOSE if they didn't sell a $900 super-phone.
    09-04-18 01:30 PM
  5. JJBBgreat's Avatar
    To say "forgettable" is not accurate, as most KEY² customers highly value the physical keyboard, and consider it a very decent upgrade to the KEYᵒⁿᵉ.

    The KEY series is unlikely to convert slab users, so you have to consider how many customers you would LOSE if they didn't sell a $900 super-phone.
    I think you meant "did" and not "didn't" in your last sentence. It's a fair point, but I just don't think this is the way forward. What gets the buzz is either a relatvely cheap phone that outdoes itself (OnePlus) or something that's just top notch. I do NOT believe the world has lost interest in the physical keyboard; it's just waiting for one attached to a top notch phone, which hasn't happened since BB07. Passport and Classic were great, but lack of apps killed their marketability.
    09-04-18 01:41 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    I think you meant "did" and not "didn't" in your last sentence. It's a fair point, but I just don't think this is the way forward. What gets the buzz is either a relatvely cheap phone that outdoes itself (OnePlus) or something that's just top notch. I do NOT believe the world has lost interest in the physical keyboard; it's just waiting for one attached to a top notch phone, which hasn't happened since BB07. Passport and Classic were great, but lack of apps killed their marketability.
    The KEY² will test upward price sensitivity. Let's see what happens.
    09-04-18 01:43 PM
  7. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Maybe. I think it's all about sales. I believe a high quality, well reviewed and recommended, expensive phone goes further than an affordable unit of forgettable quality and performance.
    For TCL... it's all about sales and revenues.

    TCL isn't Oppo or Xiamoni... I saw a report that these guys make $10 - $25 per handset, they are able to be successful due to the volume. No matter how you look at it, the BlackBerry brand isn't about volume.

    I suspect that TCL is loosing money on the BlackBerry brand. They have been willing to do so in the hopes that in time it would "grow" into a more profitable product line for them. It makes more sense to limit the losses with less expensive components....

    If Security or PKB is a "thing" they should be able to determine that, even with these midgrade offerings.
    Bbnivende likes this.
    09-04-18 01:53 PM
  8. co4nd's Avatar
    They are trying to get the largest number of potential buyers. A Flagship phone eliminates a large percentage of potential buyers because of price. I think the thought here is that there aren't enough flagship phone buyers that want a PKB. You may disagree, but it's not your money on the line.
    09-04-18 01:55 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    They are trying to get the largest number of potential buyers. A Flagship phone eliminates a large percentage of potential buyers because of price. I think the thought here is that there aren't enough flagship phone buyers that want a PKB. You may disagree, but it's not your money on the line.
    Too be honest... at this point I suspect that there are far more BlackBerry users looking for a $200 replacement than there are looking for a $1200 flagship.

    Simple truth is the average Android phone sells for only $260... there are a lot more customers out there at the low and mid range than there are at the top of the market.
    skrble likes this.
    09-04-18 02:08 PM
  10. JJBBgreat's Avatar
    I am wondering if the characterization of Blackberry users, especially those who hung in there the longest before abandoning the app-less ship, as business people who can afford high-priced phones is accurate. If it is, then I think TCL might want to consider how to attract THEM. What Blackberry has to offer--over and above Samsung, Google and Apple--is a PKB; BB's control of the patents will always provide it with an advantage in this regard. But it can only get that customer base back if it's offering a high quality product.
    Last edited by JJBBgreat; 09-04-18 at 02:41 PM. Reason: relevance
    BBeast likes this.
    09-04-18 02:33 PM
  11. chain13's Avatar
    They are trying to get the largest number of potential buyers. A Flagship phone eliminates a large percentage of potential buyers because of price. I think the thought here is that there aren't enough flagship phone buyers that want a PKB. You may disagree, but it's not your money on the line.
    And instead of that, they make midcore phone and sell it at the flagship price in order to get as large as possible potential buyers (potential~)
    Fred Wu likes this.
    09-04-18 05:19 PM
  12. conite's Avatar
    And instead of that, they make midcore phone and sell it at the flagship price in order to get as large as possible potential buyers (potential~)
    No, they have determined their two optimal selling points, and have packed in as much as they could at those prices.
    09-04-18 05:23 PM
  13. mvsalvino's Avatar
    Am I the only one who thinks the term "flagship" is funny and completely misused? The K2 is BlackBerry Mobile's "flagship" in that it is their primary product.

    I would say that spec-wise, it is as high-spec'd as anyone actually interested in a BlackBerry would care for. Camera and speakers might be lacking a bit. But how much more "flagship" can you get other than using an 800 series cpu? And what benefit would that even provide?

    Even if you put a nokia/lumia-level 41mp camera and an 800 series cpu, all the reviewers would still reach the exact same conclusion that they don't want a keyboard and the device should cost $400.
    Aholder23 likes this.
    09-04-18 05:30 PM
  14. joeldf's Avatar
    And instead of that, they make midcore phone and sell it at the flagship price in order to get as large as possible potential buyers (potential~)
    This has actually been BlackBerry's MO since the beginning. Overpriced, mid-spec'd phones were the norm for years. Then Apple comes along and a few years later when they embrace EAS, business started dropping BlackBerry, and the BES they had to have, like a hot potato. The price no longer seemed worth it.
    chain13, pdr733, Fred Wu and 1 others like this.
    09-04-18 05:36 PM
  15. chain13's Avatar
    No, they have determined their two optimal selling points, and have packed in as much as they could at those prices.
    Passport came with 8xx, ok camera, good keyboard, big amount of ram at the time, at $600 price range, that’s understanable. Why they couldn’t do the same after all these generations (priv and keys).
    Fred Wu likes this.
    09-05-18 07:30 AM
  16. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    This has actually been BlackBerry's MO since the beginning. Overpriced, mid-spec'd phones were the norm for years. Then Apple comes along and a few years later when they embrace EAS, business started dropping BlackBerry, and the BES they had to have, like a hot potato. The price no longer seemed worth it.
    STORM might have been a halfway decent phone for the cost of a few more MB of RAM....
    09-05-18 07:38 AM
  17. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    Enough people are willing to buy iPhones that it makes sense for Apple to sell a $1000 phone. They are also masters of the high profit margin game, so they don’t have to push a lot of volume to be profitable.

    Enough people are not (yet) willing to buy a flagship, high-end BlackBerry with a physical keyboard to make it profitable for TCL to produce one. But I think they’re working up to that.

    Also keep in mind, TCL is paying licensing fees for a lot of the tech in their BlackBerry phones, so they have to pass some of that cost along to the customer, otherwise there’s no way to make a profit.
    09-05-18 07:41 AM
  18. conite's Avatar
    Passport came with 8xx, ok camera, good keyboard, big amount of ram at the time, at $600 price range, that’s understanable. Why they couldn’t do the same after all these generations (priv and keys).
    BlackBerry lost huge money on every BB10 device that was sold. At the time, they were simply trying to burn through component commitments and to drag out devices long enough until software revenues caught up.

    BBMo actually wants to cover its overhead, and maybe even garner a bit of ROI.
    pdr733 likes this.
    09-05-18 07:47 AM
  19. chain13's Avatar
    BlackBerry lost huge money on every BB10 device that was sold.
    I never knew that they’ve ever released -annual report- to public those days
    09-05-18 10:48 AM
  20. chain13's Avatar
    Also keep in mind, TCL is paying licensing fees for a lot of the tech in their BlackBerry phones
    Like what?
    09-05-18 10:49 AM
  21. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    Like what?
    Like the BlackBerry software, keyboard, internal hardware security tech, and the brand name and logo. There are licensing fees attached to all of that, since BlackBerry owns the patents and intellectual property.
    09-05-18 11:01 AM
  22. chain13's Avatar
    Like the BlackBerry software, keyboard, internal hardware security tech, and the brand name and logo. There are licensing fees attached to all of that, since BlackBerry owns the patents and intellectual property.
    Other than software and the keyboard, nothing special inside the phone.
    09-05-18 11:38 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Other than software and the keyboard, nothing special inside the phone.
    Software and keyboard is sufficiently unique, and expensive.
    09-05-18 11:41 AM
  24. anon(10321802)'s Avatar
    Other than software and the keyboard, nothing special inside the phone.
    I thought BlackBerry was involved in the hardware manufacturing process to inject encrypted keys to prevent hardware/software tampering.
    09-05-18 11:48 AM
  25. chain13's Avatar
    Software and keyboard is sufficiently unique, and expensive.
    True, and every manufacturer use their own custom android software for their device. And they still come with reasonable price.

    Even if both are uniquely expensive, it’s unreasonable to charge up to $150 profit per device only for that 2 features (software and pkb)
    09-05-18 11:49 AM
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