[TrumpetTiger]

English

Thanks Daniel. Did you need the Bunq app in English or the ING one?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I don't think you have to worry DDD--the users of those other platforms have far riskier practices than BB10 users could ever conceive of having.

I don't buy into a non updated OS like BB10 actually being safer than Android at this point.

Stealing Data.... Most Android apps that run on BB10 have the same access to your Files and Contacts, if stealing data is built into them, BB10 isn't stopping that. BB10 might prevent some malware from running on the phone. But installing apps from 3rd party stores, or even browsers that require permission to your data to run...

[TrumpetTiger]

I don't buy into a non updated OS like BB10 actually being safer than Android at this point.

Stealing Data.... Most Android apps that run on BB10 have the same access to your Files and Contacts, if stealing data is built into them, BB10 isn't stopping that. BB10 might prevent some malware from running on the phone. But installing apps from 3rd party stores, or even browsers that require permission to your data to run...

3rd party stores aren't the issue, but user practices which install apps from Google Play or other stores directly which require permissions to your data to run are. Those are far more prevalent on Android than BB10...in fact, I daresay many Android users aren't even aware of the concept of permissions. They just click through the menu and don't read the fine print.

[DanielAron]

Thanks Daniel. Did you need the Bunq app in English or the ING one?

I need ING Belgium în English

And Bunq is good but i dont need.

[Thud Hardsmack]

3rd party stores aren't the issue, but user practices which install apps from Google Play or other stores directly which require permissions to your data to run are. Those are far more prevalent on Android than BB10...in fact, I daresay many Android users aren't even aware of the concept of permissions. They just click through the menu and don't read the fine print.

This isn't 2013 anymore, those arguments are tired and weak. 3rd party stores are very much an issue - who's providing the store? Are they altering the apps? Are devs allowed to upload without apps being verified? The Google Play Store has the least amount of malicious apps by a massive stretch, that should be the only store when it comes to Android apps. And as far as Android apps "stealing data", maybe don't install those apps. Android apps running on BB10 have access to anything in /misc/Android in the file system, which has a copy of user data from the BB10 side of the OS and no permissions that deny them access. Couple that with outdated and unsupported software and people are asking for problems. And with BBW shuttering at the end of the year, this is going to be an even bigger issue than it already is, since there won't be any native apps to use - it's either a smartphone with Android supplements, or an extremely basic smartphone.

[TrumpetTiger]

This isn't 2013 anymore, those arguments are tired and weak. 3rd party stores are very much an issue - who's providing the store? Are they altering the apps? Are devs allowed to upload without apps being verified? The Google Play Store has the least amount of malicious apps by a massive stretch, that should be the only store when it comes to Android apps. And as far as Android apps "stealing data", maybe don't install those apps. Android apps running on BB10 have access to anything in /misc/Android in the file system, which has a copy of user data from the BB10 side of the OS and no permissions that deny them access. Couple that with outdated and unsupported software and people are asking for problems. And with BBW shuttering at the end of the year, this is going to be an even bigger issue than it already is, since there won't be any native apps to use - it's either a smartphone with Android supplements, or an extremely basic smartphone.

You're right, this is 2019. Let's look at the most recent round of malware from Google Play:

This is adware, but still an invasion:

https://techcrunch.com/2019/03/13/ne...e-google-play/

Malware:

https://www.alertlogic.com/resources...le-play-store/

https://www.wired.com/story/google-p...urity-roundup/

And those are just off the top of my head. As for your arguments regarding 3rd party stores, they may have the same issues, don't misunderstand--but trying to argue there is a difference in security between Google Play and respectable 3rd party stores provided by verifiable organizations such as Aptoide and APKPure is ludicrous.

You are absolutely right on Android apps stealing data and that users should not install those apps. That is my entire point--user practices ignore what they should and shouldn't do on Android and give permissions to every app they feel like installing. I have yet to encounter a BBOS or BB10 user who does the same.

You are welcome to your point of view regarding whether supposedly "outdated" and unsupported software is an issue for people. Frankly, I'd be more concerned about GooBerry devices, which seem to be dropping or "upgrading" features left and right. Anyone using Android is asking for problems in my view if they're concerned about security and privacy...and there is evidence to back up my position.

Blackberry World shutting down is indeed an issue, but native apps for which we have BARs can still be sideloaded and the built-in core apps are provided by autoloaders, which will not be affected by the shutdown.

[Bla1ze]

As for your arguments regarding 3rd party stores, they may have the same issues, don't misunderstand--but trying to argue there is a difference in security between Google Play and respectable 3rd party stores provided by verifiable organizations such as Aptoide and APKPure is ludicrous.

Part of the problem is a lot of folks are not using those semi-reputable stores. One look around here and you can find people just randomly installing APK files from anywhere, much of which are verifiably infected or otherwise tampered with. It's been that way since the APK installation was first available. Would you install this? - https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/...e1cfb5/details because plenty around here have.

And while the Google Play store certainly isn't immune to malware getting in there, what makes you think Aptoide and APKPure aren't even more susceptible to underhanded tactics and behavior? Google has a whole deep system (Bouncer), doing their checks. Do you think APKPure and Aptoide are running an as advanced or more advanced system than Google?

Using your example from Techcrunch where 200+ apps were found, putting aside the fact that I have no idea who would download this junk anyway, do you think all of these -https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5766854-SimBad-AppList-Package.html were vetted with the same rigor on 3rd party sites?

Because looking at Google Play, APKPure, and Aptoid, it would be hard to say that definitively given there are hundreds of similarly named titles across the board. Hypothetically speaking, who would trust more to have done that work if you were going to download any of them? I'd be going with Google before any 3rd party store.

Arguing the difference in security between Google Play and 3rd party app stores no matter how respectable or verifiable they are is not ludicrous. Google is a large corp. with plenty of power behind them while the others are trying to replicate that experience on a budget. It's like saying your Mom and Pop corner store has all the same stock and buying power as Walmart.

[TrumpetTiger]

Part of the problem is a lot of folks are not using those semi-reputable stores. One look around here and you can find people just randomly installing APK files from anywhere, much of which are verifiably infected or otherwise tampered with. It's been that way since the APK installation was first available. Would you install this? - https://www.virustotal.com/gui/file/...e1cfb5/details because plenty around here have.

And while the Google Play store certainly isn't immune to malware getting in there, what makes you think Aptoide and APKPure aren't even more susceptible to underhanded tactics and behavior? Google has a whole deep system (Bouncer), doing their checks. Do you think APKPure and Aptoide are running an as advanced or more advanced system than Google?

Using your example from Techcrunch where 200+ apps were found, putting aside the fact that I have no idea who would download this junk anyway, do you think all of these -https://www.documentcloud.org/documents/5766854-SimBad-AppList-Package.html were vetted with the same rigor on 3rd party sites?

Because looking at Google Play, APKPure, and Aptoid, it would be hard to say that definitively given there are hundreds of similarly named titles across the board. Hypothetically speaking, who would trust more to have done that work if you were going to download any of them? I'd be going with Google before any 3rd party store.

Arguing the difference in security between Google Play and 3rd party app stores no matter how respectable or verifiable they are is not ludicrous. Google is a large corp. with plenty of power behind them while the others are trying to replicate that experience on a budget. It's like saying your Mom and Pop corner store has all the same stock and buying power as Walmart.

I confess I've not seen every post on CB, but I find it difficult to believe anyone is recommending people install APKs from sources like the one to which you link.

Aptoide, APKPure and the like do indeed verify their apps--it's one reason why they are good options. Google's "Bouncer" system clearly isn't significantly better than APKPure and Aptoide's hash verifications, as they get tons of malware--as anyone can show through a basic search on their own search engine.

Do I think they were verified with the same rigor on every third party site out there? No. Do I think that they were verified with the same rigor on sites like Aptoide? Yes.

I would trust them all equally in terms of sources, with perhaps Aptoide and APKPure getting a slight edge due to my inherent distrust of Google. But even ignoring that technically speaking there is virtually no difference in security between those app stores based on the results and how much malware one can get from them. To take your Wal-Mart analogy, it would be as if Wal-Mart was subject to a slew of product recalls due to bacteria or other harmful contamination. If your Mom and Pop store had the same product they'd be subject to the same recall due to the contamination, but they would simply be equal to Wal-Mart then--no more or less safe than the large corp. with plenty of power behind them.

[conite]

I confess I've not seen every post on CB, but I find it difficult to believe anyone is recommending people install APKs from sources like the one to which you link.

Aptoide, APKPure and the like do indeed verify their apps--it's one reason why they are good options. Google's "Bouncer" system clearly isn't significantly better than APKPure and Aptoide's hash verifications, as they get tons of malware--as anyone can show through a basic search on their own search engine.

Do I think they were verified with the same rigor on every third party site out there? No. Do I think that they were verified with the same rigor on sites like Aptoide? Yes.

I would trust them all equally in terms of sources, with perhaps Aptoide and APKPure getting a slight edge due to my inherent distrust of Google. But even ignoring that technically speaking there is virtually no difference in security between those app stores based on the results and how much malware one can get from them. To take your Wal-Mart analogy, it would be as if Wal-Mart was subject to a slew of product recalls due to bacteria or other harmful contamination. If your Mom and Pop store had the same product they'd be subject to the same recall due to the contamination, but they would simply be equal to Wal-Mart then--no more or less safe than the large corp. with plenty of power behind them.

Those other sites just piggy back off of Play Store's security. They essentially verify the developer signatures are unchanged for updates, and compare the apps to the ones posted on Play Store on first upload.

[TrumpetTiger]

Those other sites just piggy back off of Play Store's security. They essentially verify the developer signatures are unchanged for updates, and compare the apps to the ones posted on Play Store on first upload.

Which would completely support and reinforce my point about those third-party sites using the same verification and rigor as Google Play. Thank you.

[conite]

Which would completely support and reinforce my point about those third-party sites using the same verification and rigor as Google Play. Thank you.

I've never argued that with respect to a (very) select few 3rd party stores.

But Play Store's scanning systems are the best on the planet, and they don't need to wait for subsequent verification. They also contend with an order of magnitude more apps.

They also make sure all deprecated apps are expunged.

[TrumpetTiger]

I've never argued that with respect to a (very) select few 3rd party stores.

But Play Store's scanning systems are the best on the planet, and they don't need to wait for subsequent verification.

And yet they still let in tons of malware. So on the one hand we have Google Play, which clearly can't keep malware away, and on the other hand we have Aptoide, APKPure, and the like which does manual verification, both against Play and against sources directly from developers. (In fact, I believe APKPure at least does direct developer verification and bypasses Google Play's scanners entirely.)

Seems like at the very least they have equal security, thus it doesn't matter from a security perspective which one you use. Going back to the original point about user practices, BB10 users tend to be aware of this sort of thing and the importance of permissions, etc., while Android users install whatever the hell they feel like installing and give it as many permissions as it wants.

I know which group of users I'd argue has the better practices.

[conite]

And yet they still let in tons of malware. So on the one hand we have Google Play, which clearly can't keep malware away, and on thundredder hand we have Aptoide, APKPure, and the like which does manual verification, both against Play and against sources directly from developers. (In fact, I believe APKPure at least does direct developer verification and bypasses Google Play's scanners entirely.)

Seems like at the very least they have equal security, thus it doesn't matter from a security perspective which one you use. Going back to the original point about user practices, BB10 users tend to be aware of this sort of thing and the importance of permissions, etc., while Android users install whatever the hell they feel like installing and give it as many permissions as it wants.

I know which group of users I'd argue has the better practices.

3rd party stores do nothing beyond comparing apps to Play Store - unless they don't exist there.

But Play Store also removes unsecure and/or deprecated apps.

You're comparing the behaviour of 2 billion Android users to a couple hundred thousand BB10 users? There is, statistically, a subset of Android users FAR more vigilant than the average BB10 user - and that subset is probably 100x to 1000x the size of the entire BB10 user base.

[TrumpetTiger]

3rd party stores do nothing beyond comparing apps to Play Store - unless they don't exist there.

But Play Store also removes unsecure and/or deprecated apps.

You're comparing the behaviour of 2 billion Android users to a couple hundred thousand BB10 users? There is probably a subset of Android users FAR more vigilant than the average BB10 user - and that subset is probably 100x to 1000x the size of the entire BB10 user base.

I believe at least a few 3rd party stores reach out to the original devs where they can, but in any case even comparing to what's in the Play Store means those stores have the same level of security.

Play may remove insecure apps once they discover they are not secure. But that attacks the original point about Play's supposed "security" as if it was that good they wouldn't get into the Play Store in the first place. As for deprecated apps, deprecation usually is feature-related and does not affect security.

Yes, I'm comparing the behavior of Android users to BB10 users, as that comparison was made with a negative aspersion on BB10 users earlier in this thread. I'm saying BB10 users are far better than Android users in terms of their security and app installation practices. I stand by that statement.

[conite]

I'm saying BB10 users are far better than Android users in terms of their security and app installation practices. I stand by that statement.

As an average, or by raw numbers?

You don't think you can find a couple hundred thousand Android users (the approx. size of the remaining BB10 user base) that are MORE conscious about security issues?

[TrumpetTiger]

As an average, or by raw numbers?

Comparatively speaking. Since there are obviously fewer BB10 users than Android users one would have to use statistical modeling to get an accurate proportional comparison. But even then I stand by the statement.

So to sum up: assuming for the moment there were equal numbers of BB10 and Android users, the BB10 users would still be far more security conscious about apps and permissions than Android folks.

[DanielAron]

That's because it requires an android 5.0 minimum for install. Your device will only install and run android 4.3 apps. All you can do at this point is use the bank's mobile web site. If the native browser does not work for this then you will have to use an android browser such as Kiwi. The other option, of course, is to get a newer android or iOS device.

Browser kiwi - where it is found ?

Does anyone know the update for BB10 Browser? Do not go google google docs.

Tank you

[conite]

Browser kiwi - where it is found ?

Does anyone know the update for BB10 Browser? Do not go google google docs.

Tank you

https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/geomet...-apk-download/

The BB10 browser will not receive updates.

[Thud Hardsmack]

Comparatively speaking. Since there are obviously fewer BB10 users than Android users one would have to use statistical modeling to get an accurate proportional comparison. But even then I stand by the statement.

So to sum up: assuming for the moment there were equal numbers of BB10 and Android users, the BB10 users would still be far more security conscious about apps and permissions than Android folks.

Cool. Then shouldn't these users that are more security concious about permissions be using a platform that allows control of said permissions? I'd especially avoid using alternatives since those stores' "security" is merely checking validity of apps against Google Play Store. If malware shows up in GPS, guess where else it is. Out of all the other stores, I'd say APKPure is going to be the best alternative but they still can't match Google's security. And if the answer to that is "just be careful what you download", then really, what's the difference?

[joeldf]

https://www.apkmirror.com/apk/geomet...-apk-download/

The BB10 browser will not receive updates.

Yeah. All updates to the BB10 browser occurs with full BB10 OS updates. It was never separately updated. And we're at the end of the OS train.

Unless there's that fabled one last update to the OS. Even that may not touch the browser.

[Elephant_Canyon]

I'm saying BB10 users are far better than Android users in terms of their security and app installation practices. I stand by that statement.

[citation needed]

[conite]

[citation needed]

The posts here on Crackberry, save a select few users, would seem to imply the exact opposite.

[TrumpetTiger]

[citation needed]

Elephant, my statement is an opinion. Opinions are the beliefs of those who hold them, which are different from facts. Facts require citations, because you're making a statement that is incontrovertibly true. In my case, I have provided evidence for my opinion that BB10 users are far better than Android users in terms of their security and app installation procedures. People are free to believe it or not as they choose, just as they are free to believe your apparent belief that BB10 users are completely irresponsible idiots who may bring their irresponsibility to the shining paragon of security that is Android.

If and when I make assertions of fact, I will provide citations of evidence. I will also provide evidence for why I hold opinions which I hold, which I have done. Whether or not you believe the evidence is outside of my control.

[TrumpetTiger]

Browser kiwi - where it is found ?

Does anyone know the update for BB10 Browser? Do not go google google docs.

Tank you

Daniel, you may wish to check out the BEOL Browser, located here:

https://github.com/jonathan-reisdorf...owser/releases

It's an APK so an Android app, but designed for BB10. I suspect it will handle Google Docs in the browser.

[TrumpetTiger]

Cool. Then shouldn't these users that are more security concious about permissions be using a platform that allows control of said permissions? I'd especially avoid using alternatives since those stores' "security" is merely checking validity of apps against Google Play Store. If malware shows up in GPS, guess where else it is. Out of all the other stores, I'd say APKPure is going to be the best alternative but they still can't match Google's security. And if the answer to that is "just be careful what you download", then really, what's the difference?

They do use such a platform. It's called Blackberry 10.

Given that we all agree that many of these app stores use similar security practices, you are right: there is no difference and thus no reason not to use the stores which provide apps that are compatible with BB10. As for whether these third-party stores contain malware or not, it's theoretically possible that mainstream apps would have malware, but I find that stores such as APKPure for some reason do not have the malware-ridden apps that somehow make it into Google Play.