- Everywhere I look online I see people asking how to block Google/Apple from spying on them. Youtube is littered with 'How to de-Google' tutorials, etc. Every forum, Reddit, etc, is filled with these types of posts.
I find it hard to believe that Blackberry can't carve out a niche for itself and provide a phone that's completely private. I'm talking about a device that collects nothing about the user.
The phone would need to be a 'regular slab' device running BB OS (11?) and have the ability to run Android apps in some kind of sandbox or I dunno maybe no Android apps at all -- I'm just spit balling here.
I guess find it hard to believe such a device would not have any appeal these days but maybe that's me just being naive.01-16-22 01:48 PMLike 0 - Everywhere I look online I see people asking how to block Google/Apple from spying on them. Youtube is littered with 'How to de-Google' tutorials, etc. Every forum, Reddit, etc, is filled with these types of posts.
I find it hard to believe that Blackberry can't carve out a niche for itself and provide a phone that's completely private. I'm talking about a device that collects nothing about the user.
The phone would need to be a 'regular slab' device running BB OS (11?) and have the ability to run Android apps in some kind of sandbox or I dunno maybe no Android apps at all -- I'm just spit balling here.
I guess find it hard to believe such a device would not have any appeal these days but maybe that's me just being naive.ppeters914 and Laura Knotek like this.01-16-22 02:14 PMLike 2 - Everywhere I look online I see people asking how to block Google/Apple from spying on them. Youtube is littered with 'How to de-Google' tutorials, etc. Every forum, Reddit, etc, is filled with these types of posts.
I find it hard to believe that Blackberry can't carve out a niche for itself and provide a phone that's completely private. I'm talking about a device that collects nothing about the user.
The phone would need to be a 'regular slab' device running BB OS (11?) and have the ability to run Android apps in some kind of sandbox or I dunno maybe no Android apps at all -- I'm just spit balling here.
I guess find it hard to believe such a device would not have any appeal these days but maybe that's me just being naive.
BlackBerry and Microsoft already lost many $billions trying unsuccessfully to be the 3rd platform.ppeters914 and Laura Knotek like this.01-16-22 02:43 PMLike 2 -
Don't think BlackBerry was innocent in all this.01-16-22 03:00 PMLike 0 - Interesting that these topics about BB10 comeback and 3nd mobile OS are multiplying in the past few days like mushroom after the rain..
Even if there was a place for a 3rd mobile OS, it certainly wouldn't be BBRY who launched it. Did you check BBRY's finances?
Plus the BlackBerry brand is toxic for like 90+ percent of people.
(Nostalgia does not equal positive brand perception!)ppeters914 likes this.01-16-22 03:52 PMLike 1 - There's no amount of money. Devs want to develop for viable ecosystems - not OSs, but PLATFORMS. Everyone knows which platforms those are. You might get a handful who will take a chance on something else, but you'll never get major players to do so, and that's that. Short of a massive breakthrough that can't be copied by other platforms, any third OS will be nothing more than a hobbiest platform.eshropshire likes this.01-17-22 04:29 AMLike 1
- There's no amount of money. Devs want to develop for viable ecosystems - not OSs, but PLATFORMS. Everyone knows which platforms those are. You might get a handful who will take a chance on something else, but you'll never get major players to do so, and that's that. Short of a massive breakthrough that can't be copied by other platforms, any third OS will be nothing more than a hobbiest platform.
To me it's crazy how badly MS fumbled this in mobile.01-17-22 07:20 AMLike 0 - I think it is important to mention a few things. At the end, BlackBerry seemed to be selling about 100k phones per model, which is substantial. And for sure, any startup in the world would love to have 100,000 x 600 for a revenue stream. But, I think comparatively, the market was shrinking for them - and their available revenue for it was shrinking. They probably made about 150 per phone, so we are talking about only 15m in revenue. I mean these numbers need to be fact checked - but given that companies like Unity3D require 1M/year to add support, Google Apps wants 10m/year for support. The costs were just too prohibitive. And I think once they realized the demand for Android support on BlackBerry 10, they just kind of felt like they had to give up the battle...01-17-22 12:48 PMLike 0
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- I think it is important to mention a few things. At the end, BlackBerry seemed to be selling about 100k phones per model, which is substantial. And for sure, any startup in the world would love to have 100,000 x 600 for a revenue stream. But, I think comparatively, the market was shrinking for them - and their available revenue for it was shrinking. They probably made about 150 per phone, so we are talking about only 15m in revenue. I mean these numbers need to be fact checked - but given that companies like Unity3D require 1M/year to add support, Google Apps wants 10m/year for support. The costs were just too prohibitive. And I think once they realized the demand for Android support on BlackBerry 10, they just kind of felt like they had to give up the battle...01-17-22 01:08 PMLike 0
- BlackBerry's original revenue was certainly in the BIS fees, but more so in the BES fees which were much higher and generally from the corporate/educational/government sector that were the biggest BES customers. Once Apple started supporting EAS natively in the iPhone 3G, it was pretty much over. BES was being dropped everywhere like a hot potato. Why have that additional monthly balance sheet drain when you can just get rid of it and not affect your email capability to your employees devices?
I think with BB10, BlackBerry hoped to make up that revenue loss by adopting a mix of Apple and Google methods. Google had ad and app sales revenue. Apple had device and app sales revenue. BlackBerry tried device sales with a big, big push for app sales.
BlackBerry launched BlackBerry App World while still selling BBOS phones (with OS 6, I think), but they were setting it up for BB10.
Prior to the launch of BB10, Thorsten Heins made a big presentation of the apps that will come to BB10 at launch. Because he knew it's the app eco system that would appeal to users. This was already a thing for iPhone and Android users by this time.
Problem was, there were some apps on that presentation screen that never agreed to do anything. Netflix (which was one of the biggest test cases for validation) flat refused to join. Netflix just had it out for BlackBerry for some reason - someone was busted with someone's wife or something, but it all seemed a bit too personal. Even going so far as to actually specifically block any BB10 phone from even the Amazon App Store version of the Netflix app. This was after it was available for about a month after the Amazon App Store was added to the BB10 OS. I emailed Amazon support about it, and they answered that it was the developer's request to block BB10 devices. I thought then, wow...how petty.
BlackBerry spent a lot of money to get the apps they wanted, even offering many developers the option of letting BlackBerry build them instead, but so many just didn't bite.
Remember all the BlackBerry Jam conferences throughout most of 2012 and into 2013 to lure app developers? Many went, but not enough came out of it.
Anyway, with key apps missing at launch, and device returns because users couldn't get the apps they use, it was quickly clear that it was just not going to happen like BlackBerry had hoped.Laura Knotek likes this.01-17-22 01:38 PMLike 1 -
I would guess there is a small market, but the cost I believe would be high. If the market exists Sailfish and a few other OSs would be popular.Laura Knotek likes this.01-17-22 01:47 PMLike 1 - BlackBerry's original revenue was certainly in the BIS fees, but more so in the BES fees which were much higher and generally from the corporate/educational/government sector that were the biggest BES customers. Once Apple started supporting EAS natively in the iPhone 3G, it was pretty much over. BES was being dropped everywhere like a hot potato. Why have that additional monthly balance sheet drain when you can just get rid of it and not affect your email capability to your employees devices?
I think with BB10, BlackBerry hoped to make up that revenue loss by adopting a mix of Apple and Google methods. Google had ad and app sales revenue. Apple had device and app sales revenue. BlackBerry tried device sales with a big, big push for app sales.
BlackBerry launched BlackBerry App World while still selling BBOS phones (with OS 6, I think), but they were setting it up for BB10.
Prior to the launch of BB10, Thorsten Heins made a big presentation of the apps that will come to BB10 at launch. Because he knew it's the app eco system that would appeal to users. This was already a thing for iPhone and Android users by this time.
Problem was, there were some apps on that presentation screen that never agreed to do anything. Netflix (which was one of the biggest test cases for validation) flat refused to join. Netflix just had it out for BlackBerry for some reason - someone was busted with someone's wife or something, but it all seemed a bit too personal. Even going so far as to actually specifically block any BB10 phone from even the Amazon App Store version of the Netflix app. This was after it was available for about a month after the Amazon App Store was added to the BB10 OS. I emailed Amazon support about it, and they answered that it was the developer's request to block BB10 devices. I thought then, wow...how petty.
BlackBerry spent a lot of money to get the apps they wanted, even offering many developers the option of letting BlackBerry build them instead, but so many just didn't bite.
Remember all the BlackBerry Jam conferences throughout most of 2012 and into 2013 to lure app developers? Many went, but not enough came out of it.
Anyway, with key apps missing at launch, and device returns because users couldn't get the apps they use, it was quickly clear that it was just not going to happen like BlackBerry had hoped.
But in reality, I think BlackBerry would have done better if they just focused on the top 100 Apps... and curated the app store better. Now BB later claimed to have tried to get the big developers to work with them... but did they?Laura Knotek likes this.01-17-22 02:03 PMLike 1 - Netflix just had it out for BlackBerry for some reason - someone was busted with someone's wife or something, but it all seemed a bit too personal. Even going so far as to actually specifically block any BB10 phone from even the Amazon App Store version of the Netflix app. This was after it was available for about a month after the Amazon App Store was added to the BB10 OS. I emailed Amazon support about it, and they answered that it was the developer's request to block BB10 devices. I thought then, wow...how petty.
A few years later, when BB was planning BB10, I'm sure they just assumed that Netflix would be happy to have an app on the new platform, since they'd been very clear how important it was for them to be on EVERY platform. I'm sure BB thought getting Netflix was a given. But this time, Hastings had the leverage, and he told Lazaridis to pound sand - which I'm sure came as a big shock, though it shouldn't have. Mike was well known for being dismissive of any idea that went against his own, and BB had a reputation for making things difficult for third-party developers (something Mike never wanted at all).
I don't think it really mattered in the long run, but not having Netflix - especially after saying they would - was a very public fail and certainly didn't help BB10 early on.
Remember all the BlackBerry Jam conferences throughout most of 2012 and into 2013 to lure app developers? Many went, but not enough came out of it.01-17-22 02:27 PMLike 3 - Devs showed up to those conferences to learn about all of the new, exciting features that would allow them to make great apps, only to have RIM ask them what they wanted to see in the Dev tools - making it clear that BB was WAY behind the curve and that any apps they'd be able to make would be behind what they could already make on the leading platforms. Plenty of devs checked out of BB10 at that point, prior to the launch.
You have a team of hundreds of developers or your one guy that trying to keep a few dozen apps current.... you didn't have time for Cascades. Or the later Android porting tools it seems...app_Developer likes this.01-17-22 02:47 PMLike 1 - I mean who wants to buy a house that only has two rooms in it? Am I right? or am I right? And some even want to have a safe room in their house. Was BlackBerry the safe room, or what?01-17-22 03:02 PMLike 0
- Correct, BlackBerry needed to find a new revenue source to replace the BIS. The original BB10 business model had collecting data as part of the plan. This soon fell away because the very weak sales.
I would guess there is a small market, but the cost I believe would be high. If the market exists Sailfish and a few other OSs would be popular.01-17-22 03:41 PMLike 0 -
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- Probably nothing, as the user-base was insufficient to draw any advertisers. But had BB10 taken off they'd be no different from the other players.01-17-22 04:04 PMLike 0
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Adding #1: I'd ask someone like Danny from toysoft too, he would have a good idea of what the revenue was from Blackberry Advertising Service at the peak of it
Adding #2: I do remember at one point hacking together a form of Netflix, but there was no way BlackBerry was going to let me post it in Appworld (I did try but ethically I really shouldn't have). I wasn't nearly as savvy as I am now, but I do agree that people seeing Netflix pass on BlackBerry10 started a big conversation around doubt of the platforms future.
Adding #3: I also agree on the development platform challenges. Going from pure Flash, to pure C++, and adding in a semi-complete HTML5 format - it all was changing so constantly that it could be demoralizing. Getting apps on Playbook early, meant they had to eventually be thrown away for BB10. And although I eventually grew to like Cascades, their HTML5 themes and branding kept lagging behind. And the individual services kept changing. It was very much a building the plane while flying it kind of experience (but fun in a way for that for someone learning)...Last edited by KermEd; 01-17-22 at 06:54 PM.
Dunt Dunt Dunt likes this.01-17-22 06:38 PMLike 1 - Netflix had gone to BB around 2007-2008, when they were going to literally every company that made video-capable electronics - trying to get Netflix app support. Nearly every device manufacturer made a deal - virtually every smart TV and Blu-Ray player had Netflix built in and often had a dedicated Netflix button, and of course, so did video game consoles, media streamers (Apple TV, Roku, etc.), and DVRs (TiVo). But when they came to BB, Mike told them to get lost. Reed Hastings never forgot that, and he dumped BB phones at Netflix and moved to iPhones.
A few years later, when BB was planning BB10, I'm sure they just assumed that Netflix would be happy to have an app on the new platform, since they'd been very clear how important it was for them to be on EVERY platform. I'm sure BB thought getting Netflix was a given. But this time, Hastings had the leverage, and he told Lazaridis to pound sand - which I'm sure came as a big shock, though it shouldn't have. Mike was well known for being dismissive of any idea that went against his own, and BB had a reputation for making things difficult for third-party developers (something Mike never wanted at all).
I don't think it really mattered in the long run, but not having Netflix - especially after saying they would - was a very public fail and certainly didn't help BB10 early on.
Devs showed up to those conferences to learn about all of the new, exciting features that would allow them to make great apps, only to have RIM ask them what they wanted to see in the Dev tools - making it clear that BB was WAY behind the curve and that any apps they'd be able to make would be behind what they could already make on the leading platforms. Plenty of devs checked out of BB10 at that point, prior to the launch.01-17-22 09:26 PMLike 0 - That is the oddest explanation of why Netflix could not be hosted on BB10. Originally it was claimed support for the 3rd platform would be prohbitive (which the need to be on every platform clearly negates - an the fact that the interface for such a service is trivial relative to the subscription revenues) . Now the excuse is its a personal feud. Might as well add a conspiracy by the top app producers in conjunction with one or both of the major players to ensure the 3rd platform would be squeezed out of the market and killed at birth . That would be an anti-trust issue. I'm thinking yup it was probably anti-trust related. We suspect Apples project "Purple" was more than meets the eye. I wonder what Google's project name for it was.
What does that say about their desire to support a 3rd platform?
Google also brought their app suite to iPhone, but saw no future in doing the same for Microsoft or BlackBerry.Last edited by conite; 01-17-22 at 09:53 PM.
01-17-22 09:38 PMLike 0
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