[CrackBerry Question]

I just attended the New England auto show in Boston. I tried to find any cars with anything indicating somehow that QNX was on the dashboards. Just to see what the newest version of QNX looks like (All-be-it in car form), I couldn't find any vehicles that flashed anything about "QNX". Only Android Auto or Apple Auto on the window sticker . Is there a list somewhere of vehicles with QNX dashboards? I tried to google "QNX auto dashboard" and I see lots of old articles listing a car here or there but nothing that has a list of all QNX vehicles. Anyone know of a list of 2020 models with QNX?

[Bla1ze]

You're not really going to find any cars that explicitly go out of their way to state they are using QNX. That's not really the point. QNX is the underpinning of systems that OEM's brand as their own. For example, anything that is using Ford Sync 3/4 is using QNX. Another would be the Karma Revero or the Audi Q8, but again, QNX is never really placed at the forefront there. Those OEM's want you to see their branding, not QNX.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

A modern car can have dozens and dozens of different systems in them, all running some OS... Engine Controls, Emissions, Safety, Comfort, Convenience.... QNX lives on many of these.

The UI can be powered by QNX as well, but it's the basic building block that many UEM use and don't really have to acknowledge.... While QNX builds a fledged UI, most UEM want to rebrand it.

[anon(10622733)]

That's the last thing they'd want spreading around a car show...."did you know that x-brand is using BlackBerry in their cars?"... "isn't BlackBerry dead?" "I guess we'll have to take a look at that Apple car instead." .

[Troy Tiscareno]

How many are labeled as running on AGL (Automotive Grade Linux)? The same number: zero. Yet those are the two most commonly used middleware OSs for controlling cars.

You don't see Tysen branding on McDonald's chicken nuggets, but you'd be a fool to believe that they didn't use them as a source. You don't see C&H Sugar branding on candy bars, but that's also commonly used. It's just that no one cares, and if M&M/Mars substituted sugar from another company, it wouldn't change your decision to buy a candy bar, right? If you were building a house, would you care which "brand" of concrete was used to pour the foundation? That's probably the closest analogy.

QNX is not BB10, and it's not "BlackBerry" in any way you would recognize, and using a BB device with QNX in a car doesn't get you anything different than using a Samsung or an Oppo or an iPhone. Unless you're a car manufacturer, it really doesn't matter.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Would be interesting to know more about the licensing deals these days with QNX...

[Chuck Finley69]

How many are labeled as running on AGL (Automotive Grade Linux)? The same number: zero. Yet those are the two most commonly used middleware OSs for controlling cars.

You don't see Tysen branding on McDonald's chicken nuggets, but you'd be a fool to believe that they didn't use them as a source. You don't see C&H Sugar branding on candy bars, but that's also commonly used. It's just that no one cares, and if M&M/Mars substituted sugar from another company, it wouldn't change your decision to buy a candy bar, right? If you were building a house, would you care which "brand" of concrete was used to pour the foundation? That's probably the closest analogy.

QNX is not BB10, and it's not "BlackBerry" in any way you would recognize, and using a BB device with QNX in a car doesn't get you anything different than using a Samsung or an Oppo or an iPhone. Unless you're a car manufacturer, it really doesn't matter.

You’re not just a dream crusher, you’re a dream killer..

[Troy Tiscareno]

You’re not just a dream crusher, you’re a dream killer..

The thing is, no one here had ever heard of QNX until BB bought it, and then suddenly it was the best OS that had ever existed on the planet and could do anything - including bring peace to the Middle East. And now some folks seem to believe that QNX as used in cars will somehow translate into hope of future BB phones somehow. There's this idea that BB10 is just QNX with a few UI tweaks, but QNX is to BB10 like MS-DOS is to Windows 10: there's some shared code, but the vast, vast majority of the Win10 code is new and unique to Windows. DOS doesn't have a GUI, doesn't have device drivers for modern hardware, and doesn't even natively support networking or multitasking - and just because they're distantly related doesn't mean you can use DOS to listen to music or edit photos or surf the web in 2020.

QNX is used in cars in a couple of different ways. It was originally used for engine and sometimes suspension management, but this was 100% character-based OS and tiny little apps that ran on a single chip. BB only gets $1.50-$2 per car for this kind of use, but QNX is used this way in millions of cars.

Then there is QNX for Cars - which is the Infotainment system. This is an entirely new and custom OS (completely unrelated to BB10, BTW) build on top of QNX (much like BB10 was) that consists of a number of individual modules (radio control, GPS, controls for seats, climate, etc.) that are designed for auto manufacturers to use to build their own customized Infotainment systems. And that's exactly what happens: the auto companies have their own developers that take these building blocks and assemble them into a custom system for their own vehicles. This could mean that one company's implementation sucks and another company's implementation is fantastic - the fact that they're both built with QNX For Cars as building blocks is no guarantee of excellence, because that's on the individual auto company, just as two contractors can take the same exact building materials and build a great house or a terrible house. And even with the building blocks to start with, those OEMs are doing a lot of work to put everything together - they aren't buying QNX For Cars and simply swapping out the company logos and changing "Chrysler" to "Ford".

There's a third piece of QNX, and that's the "self-driving" system, and many companies are using that in their prototype systems that they're developing, but none of those systems are really available for sale yet. Tesla's is the closest thing that you can actually buy today, but Tesla uses AGL rather than QNX, and it's still a good ways away from a true self-driving car. It's certainly possible that the QNX self-driving system could be in millions of cars actually owned by consumers 10 years from now, but we aren't there yet. It's still early in that process, and 5G networking is going to play a big part in building the necessary infrastructure.

None of this is going to have ANYTHING to do with smartphones though. It's not dreams that I'm killing, it's delusions.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The thing is, no one here had ever heard of QNX until BB bought it, and then suddenly it was the best OS that had ever existed on the planet and could do anything - including bring peace to the Middle East. And now some folks seem to believe that QNX as used in cars will somehow translate into hope of future BB phones somehow. There's this idea that BB10 is just QNX with a few UI tweaks, but QNX is to BB10 like MS-DOS is to Windows 10: there's some shared code, but the vast, vast majority of the Win10 code is new and unique to Windows. DOS doesn't have a GUI, doesn't have device drivers for modern hardware, and doesn't even natively support networking or multitasking - and just because they're distantly related doesn't mean you can use DOS to listen to music or edit photos or surf the web in 2020.

QNX is used in cars in a couple of different ways. It was originally used for engine and sometimes suspension management, but this was 100% character-based OS and tiny little apps that ran on a single chip. BB only gets $1.50-$2 per car for this kind of use, but QNX is used this way in millions of cars.

Then there is QNX for Cars - which is the Infotainment system. This is an entirely new and custom OS (completely unrelated to BB10, BTW) build on top of QNX (much like BB10 was) that consists of a number of individual modules (radio control, GPS, controls for seats, climate, etc.) that are designed for auto manufacturers to use to build their own customized Infotainment systems. And that's exactly what happens: the auto companies have their own developers that take these building blocks and assemble them into a custom system for their own vehicles. This could mean that one company's implementation sucks and another company's implementation is fantastic - the fact that they're both built with QNX For Cars as building blocks is no guarantee of excellence, because that's on the individual auto company, just as two contractors can take the same exact building materials and build a great house or a terrible house. And even with the building blocks to start with, those OEMs are doing a lot of work to put everything together - they aren't buying QNX For Cars and simply swapping out the company logos and changing "Chrysler" to "Ford".

There's a third piece of QNX, and that's the "self-driving" system, and many companies are using that in their prototype systems that they're developing, but none of those systems are really available for sale yet. Tesla's is the closest thing that you can actually buy today, but Tesla uses AGL rather than QNX, and it's still a good ways away from a true self-driving car. It's certainly possible that the QNX self-driving system could be in millions of cars actually owned by consumers 10 years from now, but we aren't there yet. It's still early in that process, and 5G networking is going to play a big part in building the necessary infrastructure.

None of this is going to have ANYTHING to do with smartphones though. It's not dreams that I'm killing, it's delusions.

Will they have a PKB model?

[app_Developer]

Will they have a PKB model?

I think the equivalent of PKB in our world are 3-pedal cars?

Except I can tell you we sell way more 3-pedal cars than anyone is selling PKB’s. It’s a niche, but it’s a much bigger one.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

The thing is, no one here had ever heard of QNX until BB bought it, and then suddenly it was the best OS that had ever existed on the planet and could do anything - including bring peace to the Middle East. And now some folks seem to believe that QNX as used in cars will somehow translate into hope of future BB phones somehow. ......
[....snip....snip ....]
None of this is going to have ANYTHING to do with smartphones though. It's not dreams that I'm killing, it's delusions.

Not true, I remember having a discussion with a IT developer back before Y2K (2000) if I remember correctly. I remember him telling me all about the QNX operating system, its RTOS capabilities and all it features....he was sold...it was one of the best things he worked on he felt at that time. Told me I should look into it. Never thought about it at the time as I had a different focus...but I always remember him waxing poetic about it. Even back then QNX had an enthusiastic following....even before BlackBerry bought it.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=yAE...e&q=qnx&f=true

[app_Developer]

Not true, I remember having a discussion with a IT developer back before Y2K (2000) if I remember correctly. I remember him telling me all about the QNX operating system, its RTOS capabilities and all it features....he was sold...it was one of the best things he worked on he felt at that time. Told me I should look into it. Never thought about it at the time as I had a different focus...but I always remember him waxing poetic about it. Even back then QNX had an enthusiastic following....even before BlackBerry bought it.

https://books.google.ca/books?id=yAE...e&q=qnx&f=true

QNX was very interesting in the 90's! I was playing with it then, too. Linux was still very new at the time and hadn't taken over the corporate market yet. The ordinary OS's one could buy for consumer machines were really not keeping up (Windows 95/98 and MacOS 8/9), and so many of us were experimenting with alternative OSes so could get "pro" features like what we had at school or work on the big expensive SGIs or HP's or whatever we had at work. I had a NeXTstation at home, but the hardware on that was aging, so I was playing with QNX and Linux and BeOS(!) on a home built PC. Fun days.

[app_Developer]

https://books.google.ca/books?id=yAE...e&q=qnx&f=true

The last line of that review is funny: "Its limited software support and lack of Windows-app emulators mean it probably won't become the OS of choice, but it'll definitely feed your OS-tweaking jones"

The more things change, the more they stay the same. For an OS to be a mainstream choice, it needs to support the applications and workloads that people want to run.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

The last line of that review is funny: "Its limited software support and lack of Windows-app emulators mean it probably won't become the OS of choice, but it'll definitely feed your OS-tweaking jones"

The more things change, the more they stay the same. For an OS to be a mainstream choice, it needs to support the applications and workloads that people want to run.

The line that was most striking to me was: " Now virtually anything with a processor - including PDA's and Mobile Phones is able to run QNX natively."
None of the other OS reviews even mentioned this potential. It was a very interesting comment for 2001, and this was two years before Android was even started. Maybe BlackBerry (er...RIM) should have bought QNX (er... Quantum's Qunix) years before Harmon Kardon and had its BBOS's based on QNX.....rather than the commonly proposed alternate theory that they should have gone directly to Android instead of bb10.

I guess if smartphones were truly realistically capable of 100% of the time replacing desktop/laptops in reality, then support for win32 (and later) would have been necessary....and also impossible back then (because - Microsoft lol). I couldn't imagine anyone trying to run their Dbase programs on a smartphone back then :-) (yikes! Dbase still exists!...well okay so does WordPerfect) nor a k-9 keyboarded wordprocessor , and affordable industrial business process crunching machines didn't care much for Windows apps either (Okay front desk reception did).

[app_Developer]

The line that was most striking to me was: " Now virtually anything with a processor - including PDA's and Mobile Phones is able to run QNX natively."
None of the other OS reviews even mentioned this potential. It was a very interesting comment for 2001, and this was two years before Android was even started. Maybe BlackBerry (er...RIM) should have bought QNX (er... Quantum's Qunix) years before Harmon Kardon and had its BBOS's based on QNX.....rather than the commonly proposed alternate theory that they should have gone directly to Android instead of bb10.

I guess if smartphones were truly realistically capable of 100% of the time replacing desktop/laptops in reality, then support for win32 (and later) would have been necessary....and also impossible back then (because - Microsoft lol). I couldn't imagine anyone trying to run their Dbase programs on a smartphone back then :-) (yikes! Dbase still exists!...well okay so does WordPerfect) nor a k-9 keyboarded wordprocessor , and affordable industrial business process crunching machines didn't care much for Windows apps either (Okay front desk reception did).

WebOS ran on Linux because by then Linux ran perfectly fine on phones. QNX was a 1990s answer to a problem that simply didn’t exist by 2005.

The only reason BB fell in love with QNX was because it was Canadian. That’s it. If QNX had been German, BB would have built BB10 on Linux and been far better off (faster to market and better/faster/broader/cheaper choice of hardware).

Yes they are lucky to have some revenue from the car industry now. So that’s good for BB Ltd. But from the perspective of the phone business, it really is unfortunate for BB phones that QNX happened to be in Canada.

Microsoft and Palm and Google and Apple all had plenty of opportunity to buy QNX, but they just had no reason to do so.

Again, QNX was very cool in 1990s. But that was 20+ years ago!

[Chuck Finley69]

WebOS ran on Linux because by then Linux ran perfectly fine on phones. QNX was a 1990s answer to a problem that simply didn’t exist by 2005.

The only reason BB fell in love with QNX was because it was Canadian. That’s it. If QNX had been German, BB would have built BB10 on Linux and been far better off (faster to market and better/faster/broader/cheaper choice of hardware).

Yes they are lucky to have some revenue from the car industry now. So that’s good for BB Ltd. But from the perspective of the phone business, it really is unfortunate for BB phones that QNX happened to be in Canada.

Microsoft and Palm and Google and Apple all had plenty of opportunity to buy QNX, but they just had no reason to do so.

Again, QNX was very cool in 1990s. But that was 20+ years ago!

So was I but that was 20+ years ago too

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Mixing PDA's and phones proper here probably but.....WebOS - released 2009, original BlackBerry OS released 1999. -a decades difference. PalmOS was the or a dominent force in Personal Digital Assistants (no phones) and Nokia in cell-phones (but just cheap dumb phones, not smartphones ). Don't think Linux on the phone was around at all in the 1990's (it was just barely trying to break into desktops/pc servers let alone anything else). But the idea of linux on the phone (but not the phone at all till maybe 2008/9 well okay android, not linux itself) showed up maybe in 2003 or so. Windows CE/Windows Mobile had a decent, but not dominent market share back then, most were PDA's or pocket computers, not phones(don't know if it was a loss leader though -sounds like it might have been). A windows phone didn't come out till 2003-7 as well. No linux in sight back in 2000-1 on the phone, not even a spark in someones eye yet. Though it took, it looks like 11years for someone to take QNX seriously on its potential and put it in the phone.

If we go with your assertion that QNX was a 90s answer to a problem that didn't exist in 2005, then I guess Linux was as an 80's answer to a problem that existed in the 1970's. Just sayin'

[anon(10622733)]

I'm a Canadian and I have owned several BlackBerry's over the years.

I fell in love way back in 1979.

Well that's just a remembery now like they do on the Young and Restless.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

So was I but that was 20+ years ago too

(Very cool) But by now you've obviously got a more smooth operating system....having matured and all.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

(Very cool) But by now you've obviously got a more smooth operating system....having matured and all.

Yeah but it's more system than operating at this point....

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I'm a Canadian and I have owned several BlackBerry's over the years.

I fell in love way back in 1979.

Well that's just a remembery now like they do on the Young and Restless.

Speaking of revival....Commodore 64! Who knew?...in general?
This isn't your wedding tape, is it?...


This should be the BB10 rebirth story...lol.

[Emaderton3]

Speaking of revival....Commodore 64! Who knew?...in general?
This isn't your wedding tape, is it?...


This should be the BB10 rebirth story...lol.

Way to far ahead. Start with VIC20!

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Way to far ahead. Start with VIC20!

Hey apparently they thought of you, its included! But the Pet or SuperPet no dice.
20min 30s mark or so.
Maybe a revised BB10 would have a retro BB0S buried in there as well (lol)...maybe the 1st edition would only be available on your cars infortainment console as well....nah probably not enough compute power in those consoles yet...and BB would have to individually encrypt/lock all those processors.

[Emaderton3]

I

Hey apparently they thought of you, its included! But the Pet or SuperPet no dice.
20min 30s mark or so.
Maybe a revised BB10 would have a retro BB0S buried in there as well (lol)...maybe the 1st edition would only be available on your cars infortainment console as well....nah probably not enough compute power in those consoles yet...and BB would have to individually encrypt/lock all those processors.

So there will be a tape player for me to load games lol?!

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

I So there will be a tape player for me to load games lol?!

The cassette player from the car should do, i think (lol). The New C64 is USB interfaced nowadays. Convert it elsewhere...pc. Then create the right kind of image format on the USB apparently and you're good to go loading it up and running.

(Dang when I said no dice about the Commodore's Pet, I didn't realize this: VICE: http://vice-emu.sourceforge.net/ )
....
and to bring it full circle.....you can run your commodore 64 emulator on QNX 4 and QNX 6.x Operating systems (according to VICE, no not that VICE)...hmm wonder if anyone ported it to BB10.