07-20-15 04:13 PM
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  1. JakieWolf's Avatar
    I've been meaning to write my thoughts up on BlackBerry for a while now, but I've never really known what to write about. This thread, however (http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...pchat-1028819/) has prompted me to get started.

    First, some key information. I'm 16, I've been interested in BlackBerry since I turned 13 and got my first BlackBerry (December 2011). Back then, basically everyone I knew had a BlackBerry device. Curve, Torch, Bold, you name it. It was perfect, since the PKB could easily be used underneath a school desk, and everyone was on BBM as well. Heck, people even used to hold down the symbol key and send messages completely in symbols, then have the receiver decode it by looking at their PKB, since everyone's keyboards shared the same symbol key layout.

    However this all changed in a blink of an eye. The term "battery pull" was already very common, and people put up battery pulling for a time, until they realised that other phones were available that didn't freeze up constantly.
    The turning point was around mid-2012, well after the iPhone 4S launched (October 2011). The BlackBerry's that everyone used to have suddenly disappeared, being replaced with iPhone's or similar Android equivalents. Why? Well, from a teenage point of view it's several fairly simple reasons.

    BBOS phones often freeze up, Android/iOS ones don't so much.
    BBOS has few apps, Android/iOS has lots.
    BBOS hardware (camera, etc) was mediocre*, Android/iOS was fairly good.

    *That said, BBOS phones were notorious for being tough devices

    From mid-2011 to 2012, opinion's on BlackBerry between people in high school rapidly changed (roughly ages 12-18). All of a sudden, people who previously wouldn't be seen without a BlackBerry would be saying how much better they felt having moved on to another platform, and that they couldn't believe how long they had put up with their old device for. By 2013 and the launch of BB10, hardly anyone had a BlackBerry device, and even fewer people wanted another one.

    Despite this, I upgraded to the Z30 in December 2013, and none of my friends could understand why. "BlackBerry is awful!" "There's no apps on it!" "Do you have to pull the battery out every hour?" were things I heard a lot when I told people my Z30 was a BlackBerry device. Most often though, people were in disbelief that the Z30 was a BlackBerry, having assumed that BlackBerry still only made BBOS devices/had gone out of business.

    Quite frankly, this didn't surprise me. After experiencing BBOS and then iOS/Android, most teens would never consider a move back to BlackBerry, simply due to the worry of not being able to use their favourite apps. Having transitioned to an iOS/Android phone, many simply wrote BlackBerry off and moved on. However, apps are not the only reason for people not giving BlackBerry a second chance.

    The BlackBerry brand name is what steers many people away from BB10. I was uneasy when RIM changed its name to BlackBerry, as most people my age would immediately dismiss a device with "BlackBerry" on it as being just another buggy and slow BBOS device. It's unfortunate, but most young people believe that BlackBerry is just the same as it was.

    On the tablet side of things, if you wanted to buy a tablet around 2011-2013, the answer was to buy an iPad. The PlayBook was considered to be some kind of strange joke in comparison to Apple's offering.

    While I understand that BBOS devices were absolutely brilliant for email and SMS/phone calls, to any teen they were useless. The app store was a joke compared to Apple's equivalent, and many apps were fairly useless anyway. On top of this, the camera on some devices was dreadful, and the spinning timer haunted virtually every phone. Even those who had the Bold 9900 complained about the OS freezing and glitching.

    The reason BlackBerry will not be successful with young people (at least in the near future) is because most have no idea that BB10 exists/is any different to BBOS, and many automatically think that BlackBerry is nothing compared to iOS/Android, based on past experiences of BlackBerry devices.

    Let's be real here. No young person wants to faff around sideloading and working around things to get apps to work on their device. They don't want three app stores, an Android simulator, or a lack of Google Play Services. Upgrading the OS through autoloaders and Sachesi is an even bigger issue. Most people don't want to have to download custom software just to be able to update their device. While I am prepared to do this (to an extent), after 18 months of sideloading and the Snapchat incident, it has become very hard to argue the case for BB10, despite how good native apps can be. It's a shame really, since BlackBerry have created a brilliant OS.

    Talking of Snapchat, in order to use the app, I am having to carry around an iPhone 4S (the very phone that started the downfall of BlackBerry as I knew it), and use mobile hotspot on my Z30 to allow the iPhone to work outside of the house. Having used the iPhone and Z30 side by side, the 2011 4S (iOS 7.1.2) beats the 2013 Z30 (10.3.1.1784) by huge margins. Take the panorama mode for example. Panorama on BB10 is almost painful, whereas on iOS, it just works. Siri (voice control) on iOS is instant and very helpful, whereas BlackBerry Assistant is slow and often struggles with voice recognition. (To be brutally honest, I think Assistant was a waste of time and resources for BlackBerry) The iPhone is better in almost every respect (except for battery life, file managing, notifications, etc), despite being 2 years older than the Z30. 2 years in technology is a very long time.

    Unfortunately, my tenure as a BlackBerry user will be coming to an end in September, as I plan to move to a Galaxy S6. My main reasons for this? Performance, apps and hardware. Strangely enough, these are the three reasons I listed for why many people my age chose to leave BlackBerry long before I did. Quite simply the Z30 can no longer do what I want it to, and as a result I will be moving on. However I shall sorely miss the smoothness of the OS, the huge battery and general ease of use.

    I hope that you are able to take something from my thoughts, and that this essay isn't just the product of a demented fool thrusting his broken umbrella up into a gale force wind of terrifying indifference.
    Last edited by JakieWolf; 07-14-15 at 03:16 PM.
    07-14-15 02:48 PM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Hey I'm almost 50 and I can relate to what you are saying.

    Many of us chose a BB10 device based on our "fondness" of the Platform. But BlackBerry didn't deliver and at this point it's clear that they can't.
    07-14-15 03:10 PM
  3. lnichols's Avatar
    All of the items you listed can be used to cover any age demographic. BlackBerry brand is tied to BBOS, and that OS while great for communications, sucked compared to the competition in stability and usability. It is the spinning clocks, battery pulls, and reboot after every install of what few apps were available, that the name BlackBerry is tied to. A poor experience compared to what people associate with Smartphones of today. BlackBerry changing the name of the company to the horrible brand that BBOS brought them shows how out of touch with reality they are.

    Posted via Z30
    Last edited by lnichols; 07-14-15 at 08:00 PM.
    Blacklatino likes this.
    07-14-15 03:23 PM
  4. anon(1852343)'s Avatar
    Very well written for anyone let alone a 16 year old. Good luck with the S6. I am and will always be a BlackBerry guy so I am stocking up on them in case the company disappears. Just in case!

    Blackberry Passport running 10.3.2.2339
    07-14-15 03:30 PM
  5. JakieWolf's Avatar
    Agreed with both of you, I bought into BlackBerry because I wanted to support the platform and the company, but the previous phones have tarnished the reputation of the devices to the point where BlackBerry usually means awful to most people, when that often is not the case.

    It's interesting to see that it's not just my age group/generation that changed in this manner though, the reputation of BlackBerry could be one of the main reasons why BB10 has failed to deliver much for the company.

    @rebroker2009 Thank you you might as well while they last!
    Witmen likes this.
    07-14-15 03:32 PM
  6. eldricho's Avatar
    17 here and can relate to almost all points

    My Z30 just turned a month old and I plan on using it for atleast another year or till the end of the year (depending what the slider will ultimately turn out to be).

    iOS is a big no go for me, but I like Android and am also interested in Windows Phone (despite them also having lots of app shortages).

    Thing is, I like BB10 more than all the other ones and so far I haven't really had an app that I couldn't run on here. Yes it requires some tweaking to have Snapchat and Clash of Clans running on my phone (shoutout to Cobalt and his Google Solutions!). I don't mind the tweaking and tinkering to get stuff working, lath sometimes I wish I could just get stuff running with a couple of clicks.

    I can totally relate to what you say about BlackBerry's image with the teenage crowd and it's sad to see.

    Good luck with your S6! Hear it's a splendid piece of hardware. Will someday grab a Lumia and a Android device, just to have them myself.

    Posted via CB10
    07-14-15 03:35 PM
  7. Gatmyer's Avatar
    You guys really should be saving for college! Not buying $600-$700 phones.

    Posted via CB10
    Batibreaker likes this.
    07-14-15 04:47 PM
  8. Josh Garrow's Avatar
    I've been meaning to write my thoughts up on BlackBerry for a while now, but I've never really known what to write about. This thread, however (http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...pchat-1028819/) has prompted me to get started.

    First, some key information. I'm 16, I've been interested in BlackBerry since I turned 13 and got my first BlackBerry (December 2011). Back then, basically everyone I knew had a BlackBerry device. Curve, Torch, Bold, you name it. It was perfect, since the PKB could easily be used underneath a school desk, and everyone was on BBM as well. Heck, people even used to hold down the symbol key and send messages completely in symbols, then have the receiver decode it by looking at their PKB, since everyone's keyboards shared the same symbol key layout.

    However this all changed in a blink of an eye. The term "battery pull" was already very common, and people put up battery pulling for a time, until they realised that other phones were available that didn't freeze up constantly.
    The turning point was around mid-2012, well after the iPhone 4S launched (October 2011). The BlackBerry's that everyone used to have suddenly disappeared, being replaced with iPhone's or similar Android equivalents. Why? Well, from a teenage point of view it's several fairly simple reasons.

    BBOS phones often freeze up, Android/iOS ones don't so much.
    BBOS has few apps, Android/iOS has lots.
    BBOS hardware (camera, etc) was mediocre*, Android/iOS was fairly good.

    *That said, BBOS phones were notorious for being tough devices

    From mid-2011 to 2012, opinion's on BlackBerry between people in high school rapidly changed (roughly ages 12-18). All of a sudden, people who previously wouldn't be seen without a BlackBerry would be saying how much better they felt having moved on to another platform, and that they couldn't believe how long they had put up with their old device for. By 2013 and the launch of BB10, hardly anyone had a BlackBerry device, and even fewer people wanted another one.

    Despite this, I upgraded to the Z30 in December 2013, and none of my friends could understand why. "BlackBerry is awful!" "There's no apps on it!" "Do you have to pull the battery out every hour?" were things I heard a lot when I told people my Z30 was a BlackBerry device. Most often though, people were in disbelief that the Z30 was a BlackBerry, having assumed that BlackBerry still only made BBOS devices/had gone out of business.

    Quite frankly, this didn't surprise me. After experiencing BBOS and then iOS/Android, most teens would never consider a move back to BlackBerry, simply due to the worry of not being able to use their favourite apps. Having transitioned to an iOS/Android phone, many simply wrote BlackBerry off and moved on. However, apps are not the only reason for people not giving BlackBerry a second chance.

    The BlackBerry brand name is what steers many people away from BB10. I was uneasy when RIM changed its name to BlackBerry, as most people my age would immediately dismiss a device with "BlackBerry" on it as being just another buggy and slow BBOS device. It's unfortunate, but most young people believe that BlackBerry is just the same as it was.

    On the tablet side of things, if you wanted to buy a tablet around 2011-2013, the answer was to buy an iPad. The PlayBook was considered to be some kind of strange joke in comparison to Apple's offering.

    While I understand that BBOS devices were absolutely brilliant for email and SMS/phone calls, to any teen they were useless. The app store was a joke compared to Apple's equivalent, and many apps were fairly useless anyway. On top of this, the camera on some devices was dreadful, and the spinning timer haunted virtually every phone. Even those who had the Bold 9900 complained about the OS freezing and glitching.

    The reason BlackBerry will not be successful with young people (at least in the near future) is because most have no idea that BB10 exists/is any different to BBOS, and many automatically think that BlackBerry is nothing compared to iOS/Android, based on past experiences of BlackBerry devices.

    Let's be real here. No young person wants to faff around sideloading and working around things to get apps to work on their device. They don't want three app stores, an Android simulator, or a lack of Google Play Services. Upgrading the OS through autoloaders and Sachesi is an even bigger issue. Most people don't want to have to download custom software just to be able to update their device. While I am prepared to do this (to an extent), after 18 months of sideloading and the Snapchat incident, it has become very hard to argue the case for BB10, despite how good native apps can be. It's a shame really, since BlackBerry have created a brilliant OS.

    Talking of Snapchat, in order to use the app, I am having to carry around an iPhone 4S (the very phone that started the downfall of BlackBerry as I knew it), and use mobile hotspot on my Z30 to allow the iPhone to work outside of the house. Having used the iPhone and Z30 side by side, the 2011 4S (iOS 7.1.2) beats the 2013 Z30 (10.3.1.1784) by huge margins. Take the panorama mode for example. Panorama on BB10 is almost painful, whereas on iOS, it just works. Siri (voice control) on iOS is instant and very helpful, whereas BlackBerry Assistant is slow and often struggles with voice recognition. (To be brutally honest, I think Assistant was a waste of time and resources for BlackBerry) The iPhone is better in almost every respect (except for battery life, file managing, notifications, etc), despite being 2 years older than the Z30. 2 years in technology is a very long time.

    Unfortunately, my tenure as a BlackBerry user will be coming to an end in September, as I plan to move to a Galaxy S6. My main reasons for this? Performance, apps and hardware. Strangely enough, these are the three reasons I listed for why many people my age chose to leave BlackBerry long before I did. Quite simply the Z30 can no longer do what I want it to, and as a result I will be moving on. However I shall sorely miss the smoothness of the OS, the huge battery and general ease of use.

    I hope that you are able to take something from my thoughts, and that this essay isn't just the product of a demented fool thrusting his broken umbrella up into a gale force wind of terrifying indifference.
    Hey while I agree with you that the App economy is week, and is actually honestly very bad. But I disagree with a lot you have said. I Don't find the Camera bad at all. I actually find the Front facing camera is better than the IPhone6+, I to have the z30, I am 17. The phone is definitely not slower than anything out there it's actually faster. I have used every single type of phone out there (not including windows [Only used phones available in canada] and Hauwaii). The only thing they should do is up the specs and Apps, but the camera I feel doesn't need that much of an update, but higher specs could be useful.

    Posted via CB10
    07-14-15 05:08 PM
  9. MikeX74's Avatar
    You guys really should be saving for college! Not buying $600-$700 phones.

    Posted via CB10
    I agree that saving money for college would be a wise thing to do, but it's not our money to decide how it should be spent.
    07-14-15 05:44 PM
  10. nt300's Avatar
    Hey while I agree with you that the App economy is week, and is actually honestly very bad. But I disagree with a lot you have said. I Don't find the Camera bad at all. I actually find the Front facing camera is better than the IPhone6+, I to have the z30, I am 17. The phone is definitely not slower than anything out there it's actually faster. I have used every single type of phone out there (not including windows [Only used phones available in canada] and Hauwaii). The only thing they should do is up the specs and Apps, but the camera I feel doesn't need that much of an update, but higher specs could be useful.

    Posted via CB10
    Have to agree with you. I had the odd little slow downs once in a while on my Z30, but recently got a OS UPDATE and now running smooth. Nothing can beat BB10's interface, smoothness and intuitiveness. But I do agree the there's a Native App shortage and Garbage Marketing.

    People still see BlackBerry as BBOS and not as the superior BB10.
    Now give us a high spec'ed Full Touch Z30 replacement. I'll be fine with a Passport only if it's Full Touch.

    BlackBerry Z30
    07-14-15 07:56 PM
  11. mvpcrossxover's Avatar
    Cleverly disguised thread of "I'm moving on from BlackBerry" or a glorified version of it.
    Akainzo likes this.
    07-14-15 08:23 PM
  12. lnichols's Avatar
    Have to agree with you. I had the odd little slow downs once in a while on my Z30, but recently got a OS UPDATE and now running smooth. Nothing can beat BB10's interface, smoothness and intuitiveness. But I do agree the there's a Native App shortage and Garbage Marketing.

    People still see BlackBerry as BBOS and not as the superior BB10.
    Now give us a high spec'ed Full Touch Z30 replacement. I'll be fine with a Passport only if it's Full Touch.

    BlackBerry Z30
    I just had to reload the OS on my Z30 again. I did it after the 10.3.1 OTA, and now had to do it again after 10.3.2 OTA. I fail to see how a company that can't get OTA's right, had horrible issues with 10.0 and 10.1 is now going to become a software company, or and Android OEM. Pretty pathetic QA in Waterloo.

    Posted via Z30
    Last edited by lnichols; 07-14-15 at 09:22 PM.
    07-14-15 08:57 PM
  13. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    You guys really should be saving for college! Not buying $600-$700 phones.

    Posted via CB10
    Why buy a Passport? Get a Leap/Q5 and donate what's left to your favorite charity. ;-)

    Posted via C5303
    07-14-15 09:25 PM
  14. dbmalloy's Avatar
    Until BB gets Google Play services... most will view the app ecosystem as wanting even though it for run most Android apps well.. depending on the device... no what the OP summarizes very well is how damaged the BB brand is... while many see a move to Android as a positive... many outside the BB community look at the move a one of desparation of a dying company... this is what BB needs to address and has failed miserably... does not matter how good your phone is ... if people do not think your company is going to be around for the long hall... sales will not happen...
    07-14-15 09:40 PM
  15. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I just had to reload the OS on my Z30 again. I did it after the 10.3.1 OTA, and now had to do it again after 10.3.2 OTA. I fail to see how a company that can't get OTA's right, had horrible issues with 10.0 and 10.1 is now going to become a software company, or and Android OEM. Pretty pathetic QA in Waterloo.

    Posted via Z30
    Been watching BlackBerry struggle with software for eight years.... But to be honest I think it's really all on QNX. I went to their IoT site and tried to do a little reading on Momentics, they have put a LOT of work into documentation. I think the future is QNX... sadly I think it will still be a small embedded system software company. As I not thinking anyone really wants to add BlackBerry's NOC into the mix and watch their systems shut down when a BlackBerry switch fails and it take three days to fix.
    07-15-15 07:08 AM
  16. Tristan49's Avatar
    You make some very good points. I'm currently in University, but I remember how many people were using Blackberry's in high school - it was crazy! Literally everyone was on BBM and sharing their pins. Meanwhile, I was the only one using an iPhone.

    Fast forward to today, and ironically I'm the only one of my friends using a Blackberry (Classic). I absolutely love it and trying to convince my buddies to get one. The only reason they aren't is for lack of support for some popular social media applications e.g. SnapChat. Perhaps Blackberry can solve this with the Android Device.
    07-15-15 08:06 AM
  17. Madhuchandran's Avatar
    Well presented. Prodigious! But hang on to see a perceived BlackBerry rejuvenation in a manifestation of its choice.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 08:20 AM
  18. CFFrost's Avatar
    As a guy who recently turned 21 I too lived during the days when everyone had a BlackBerry, and when iPhone 4S and other Androids killed it. You got a few valid points there, app ecosystem does suck but as a PP user I find this more robust than the 3 generations of Androids (Note 2, Galaxy S2 and Note 3) along with other two of iPhone (4S and 5S), the PP is much more robust in a lot of sectors than the aforementioned used to be (exception makes 5S, which I really liked). Yes you won't see the typical hipster app fiend who uses selfie sticks and send nudes via Snapchat to use a phone who was for as far as I remember, except the period when everyone had one due to BBM a few years ago, was a stereotypical businessman's phone made for productivity and not dicking around with really silly gimmicks, in an attempt to try to make the best gimmicky device to sell best.

    To gauge what my perspective is about both iPhone and Android: for iPhone I say Bendgate, for Android I'll use Samsung' S6 Edge's screen which is not a usable edge like it was for the first Edge but the phone costs $150 more than the normal S6: why exactly? Let's not even talk about substandard construction, particularly now where none (maybe Vertu but we're talking about reasonably affordable phones here) compares to a PP or even a Z30
    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 08:22 AM
  19. shorski's Avatar
    Op, you really did well with the essay.
    I agree with everything you said about the state that blackberry is as a brand now especially with the younger folks.
    Indeed, BBOS didn't do justice to BB10. In my own part of the planet, I remembered way back between 2007 and 2012, a lot of phone users here wanted blackberry. They couldn't do without having a blackberry. This was mainly because of the awesome messaging platform(BBM). However, towards the end of 2012, this changed drastically. Android phones entered the market and they had loads of apps which was more appealing to many. By the time BB10 launched, a good fraction of phone users have moved on to Android while some went for Apple iphones.
    Though today, the awareness is growing at a very high rate but phone users want more than just BB10.

    However, I'm good with what I'm getting from my Blackberry Z30 at the moment. I will also say you could probably wait and see what the Slider coming up later in the year will offer, before you opt for that S6.
    07-15-15 09:06 AM
  20. lovedaazn's Avatar
    I must say that for someone who is 16, the writing was well done. I enjoyed reading this post. Sad to see you leave though. Maybe you should hold out for the slider? If it is in fact an android device then you could have the best of both worlds.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 11:09 AM
  21. CFFrost's Avatar
    I must say that for someone who is 16, the writing was well done. I enjoyed reading this post. Sad to see you leave though. Maybe you should hold out for the slider? If it is in fact an android device then you could have the best of both worlds.

    Posted via CB10
    We do not know for a fact that it runs Android, it was just a person on Reddit who kicked the rumour mill hard about the OS being Android. Until it's official it's all discussing about fumes.

    Posted via CB10
    07-15-15 11:39 AM
  22. lnichols's Avatar
    We do not know for a fact that it runs Android, it was just a person on Reddit who kicked the rumour mill hard about the OS being Android. Until it's official it's all discussing about fumes.

    Posted via CB10
    And hurting BB10 sales in the process. BlackBerry sales are horrible since the for sale sign. No one has confidence BB10 will be around, even if BlackBerry is around. They need to either confirm the rumor or deny it, and soon. If by the new iPhone they are still playing games and not clear what their near term intentions are for phones and BB10, I will be moving to iOS. I have given BlackBerry since the PlayBook and all of BB10 to get their **** squared away and they just can't do it, and the new leadership is just a shady with the truth as the old. I can't even think about dropping any more money on them unless they can show a commitment to hardware and BB10.

    Posted via Z30
    07-15-15 12:27 PM
  23. CFFrost's Avatar
    And hurting BB10 sales in the process. BlackBerry sales are horrible since the for sale sign. No one has confidence BB10 will be around, even if BlackBerry is around. They need to either confirm the rumor or deny it, and soon. If by the new iPhone they are still playing games and not clear what their near term intentions are for phones and BB10, I will be moving to iOS. I have given BlackBerry since the PlayBook and all of BB10 to get their **** squared away and they just can't do it, and the new leadership is just a shady with the truth as the old. I can't even think about dropping any more money on them unless they can show a commitment to hardware and BB10.

    Posted via Z30
    A big issue is that Chen recently just shat on the few app developers left by canceling funding and dev events, even if you are a witch you can't tell what he's up to with all these moves. I don't think that the move to Android wasn't in speculation for a while, but what I'm most worried about is how will they manage to execute that IRL, in particular regarding: security, keeping BlackBerry Blend but also make for themselves space in the oversaturated market of Android phones.

    Posted via CB10
    HereticHermit likes this.
    07-15-15 02:20 PM
  24. bhoqeem's Avatar
    Even if the BlackBerry is shutdown, like, next year, or ever, I will be keeping and using my Passport. Will even get a Q10 and/or Z10 just to have a different feel of typing, and my love for the BB10 OS.
    07-16-15 10:03 AM
  25. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    A big issue is that Chen recently just shat on the few app developers left by canceling funding and dev events, even if you are a witch you can't tell what he's up to with all these moves. I don't think that the move to Android wasn't in speculation for a while, but what I'm most worried about is how will they manage to execute that IRL, in particular regarding: security, keeping BlackBerry Blend but also make for themselves space in the oversaturated market of Android phones.

    Posted via CB10
    Looking back at the whole Amazon "partnership" and what Chen said about it and what he told developers... I think he was done with supporting native developers at that point. Cutting cost, meant cutting cost... and he had solved the App problem.

    Too I think most everyone who really thinks about it, can't really see a move to Android being a good thing for BlackBerry fans. I think the "Experience" is going to be very limited in what it can bring from BB10 to Android. And I honestly don't see them selling these device to anyone but a few Enterprise customers a a few of the REALLY hardcore and still blindly loyal fans.

    Most every argument I saw for going with Android back five years ago was the ablity to get a product to market in less time. Of courses at that time we taught BB10 would be release in late 2011 or early 2012 Apps weren't the big concern, because most everyone taught that BlackBerry would go the Amazon route and do a forked version of Android and that naturally developers would gladly port their apps over. And eventually we found out that they were going to have the Android Player so all seemed good.... other than the delays in release their new OS.
    07-16-15 11:34 AM
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