09-09-13 04:05 PM
49 12
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  1. dawolfen's Avatar
    Not sure why this idea comes up all the time. Where is the precedent for a government to go on the open market and take over a solvent company? Even more crazy, at a premium to the current market price?

    Event if you go with this crazy idea, think about what it means. You've just spent 7 - 10 billion dollars to give the shareholders some money, it does zero for the business because nothing has changed. Now you probably have to spend 3 - 5 billion extra to execute BB10 and continue selling devices. So how exactly does the government then get a return on that 10 - 15 billion investment? At some point it needs to sell back to willing shareholders.

    Not going to happen...
    09-06-13 03:43 PM
  2. Bla1ze's Avatar
    actually you'd be dead wrong, all parliament and military use BlackBerry smartphones. The reason they aren't helping right now, is they have their own issues to deal with. IF BlackBerry can't sort this out themselves, than yes, the Canadian Government may make a move to keep it Canadian owned
    And that's only a start.. their financial interests outside of device purchases is a whole other thing.
    09-06-13 03:46 PM
  3. SK122387's Avatar
    As an American, I hope Canada keeps BlackBerry Canadian in any way it can.

    In some way I guess I like knowing that my BlackBerry comes from our friendly neighbor to the north, and not some country across the Pacific.
    cmdr_dan likes this.
    09-06-13 03:53 PM
  4. Nathend's Avatar
    You people are out of your minds. I Personally do NOT want my GOV to fund or Bail out BB or any other Company. What is wrong with you people ? More and more Canadians are working harder then ever and not getting paid or even awarded for there hard work AND most don't know if they will ever have a Pension by the time they retire and you people want the GOV to take People's Money and Fund BB ?
    BB ? The Company that fired Thousands of people to cut costs, yet are wiling to give TH 55 Million to leave ? Seriously ?
    How about taking that Money and start Marketing your OWN product ? You guys/girls whomever are just plain out of touch with reality.
    Id live to see you people at 70+ years old and still saying crap like " The Gov should Bail out BB " Really ? I don't think .
    There are MORE important things then BB in REAL LIFE.
    Why do you guys Sell your Houses and Cars and whatever else you have, BUY BB stock and go live in a shelter.

    Like someone here said " Bail out BB ? A Company that has no Dept with 3 Bill in the bank ? "
    Jesus Christ , cant believe how stupid this even is starting to sound.
    helio9965 and aniym like this.
    09-06-13 03:59 PM
  5. Nathend's Avatar
    Why not INCREASE Taxes in Canada so we can have more Money to give to BB . *shakes head* Unreal.
    09-06-13 04:01 PM
  6. nabil114's Avatar
    They need to cut costs.
    09-06-13 04:04 PM
  7. Nathend's Avatar
    Why do I keep reading these threads about bailing out Blackberry?

    How do you bail out a company that has no debt, $3billion in the bank and a significant customer base?

    Bailing out Blackberry would be like helping someone walk that has a sore elbow.....
    Exactly ! These BB users are out there F$king mind. TH Gets 55mill to leave and oh wait ! The Gov will kick in a Billion or so to keep BB going, GTFO , I'd be furious if just the THOUGHT of my Elected Gov did that.
    09-06-13 04:04 PM
  8. Kris Simundson's Avatar
    Exactly ! These BB users are out there F$king mind. TH Gets 55mill to leave and oh wait ! The Gov will kick in a Billion or so to keep BB going, GTFO , I'd be furious if just the THOUGHT of my Elected Gov did that.
    lol chill man, it was only a question, most of us know it'd never happen
    09-06-13 05:12 PM
  9. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The investment fund for the Canada Pension Plan (for our American friends, think Social Security) has already stated a willingness to participate in a "gone-private" BBRY. To me, that represents kind of "back door" federal government intervention.

    We'll see how that actually plays out. My own guess--what they're trying to do is take the company private with Prem Watsa's Fairfax Financial (which already owns a significant stake anyway), Mike Lazaridus (ditto) and a few other participants. Possibly the big Canadian banks, who also hold some stake in the company.

    I had not realized that CPP made money by buying into then selling Skype to Microsoft.

    Canadian Pension Plan makes $1 billion from Skype deal

    Still I think that that CPP might go as high as maybe $500 mill if they think they can make money in the same manner as before. If yes, it is not about jobs or anything else but they see an opportunity to make a buck through an asset buy and sell.
    09-06-13 08:37 PM
  10. wjptam's Avatar
    Yeah like the government knows how to run a technology developer.

    It would be just as successful as UTDC was for the Government of Ontario. And given QNX's history as the white elephant operating system for the Ontario School system it would be quite hilarious.
    09-06-13 08:42 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Yeah like the government knows how to run a technology developer.

    It would be just as successful as UTDC was for the Government of Ontario. And given QNX's history as the white elephant operating system for the Ontario School system it would be quite hilarious.
    The govt would only be a passive investor . Interested and in your face but still passive. No majority ownership.
    09-06-13 08:45 PM
  12. wjptam's Avatar
    The government has helped them enough. Not only does SR&ED cover 20% of all salaries of R&D employees in Canada, they have had access to TPC and IRAP over the years. The government paying up to 40% of R&D salaries has not created a culture of lean innovation. It has fed a culture of complacency in Waterloo, as it did at Nortel.

    Most galling is that Blackberry has partaken of EDC and BDC loan guarantees to give overseas carriers below market interest rate financing terms to buy BB10 devices. This represents a net transfer of wealth from Canadian taxpayers to foreign mobile phone companies.
    09-06-13 09:00 PM
  13. northernrds's Avatar
    You people are out of your minds. I Personally do NOT want my GOV to fund or Bail out BB or any other Company. What is wrong with you people ? More and more Canadians are working harder then ever and not getting paid or even awarded for there hard work AND most don't know if they will ever have a Pension by the time they retire and you people want the GOV to take People's Money and Fund BB ?
    BB ? The Company that fired Thousands of people to cut costs, yet are wiling to give TH 55 Million to leave ? Seriously ?
    How about taking that Money and start Marketing your OWN product ? You guys/girls whomever are just plain out of touch with reality.
    Id live to see you people at 70+ years old and still saying crap like " The Gov should Bail out BB " Really ? I don't think .
    There are MORE important things then BB in REAL LIFE.
    Why do you guys Sell your Houses and Cars and whatever else you have, BUY BB stock and go live in a shelter.

    Like someone here said " Bail out BB ? A Company that has no Dept with 3 Bill in the bank ? "
    Jesus Christ , cant believe how stupid this even is starting to sound.
    If you are working harder and not getting paid more, come join us in Alberta. Lots of opportunity out west.
    09-06-13 09:12 PM
  14. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The government has helped them enough. Not only does SR&ED cover 20% of all salaries of R&D employees in Canada, they have had access to TPC and IRAP over the years. The government paying up to 40% of R&D salaries has not created a culture of lean innovation. It has fed a culture of complacency in Waterloo, as it did at Nortel.

    Most galling is that Blackberry has partaken of EDC and BDC loan guarantees to give overseas carriers below market interest rate financing terms to buy BB10 devices. This represents a net transfer of wealth from Canadian taxpayers to foreign mobile phone companies.
    If CPP buys in, It is because they think they can make money on their investment. No other reason.
    Thunderbuck likes this.
    09-06-13 09:40 PM
  15. wjptam's Avatar
    Which is why they will not buy. The CPP needs to buy into companies that can grow the the CPP endowment for the day that current contributions can no longer meet its obligations to the retirees of Canada.

    Investing in BB is not a good investment. It will only prop up the share price. Propping up the share price with CPP investment trust money is a transfer of wealth to the current shareholders of BlackBerry at the expense of future generations of Canadian retirees. It also allows incompetent management who have run the business into the ground to cash out any share holdings, stock options or vesting shares at an propped up price. Again a net transfer of funds from working Canadians/future retirees to people that have failed in their job.

    You will also hurt BBs ability to sell product to foreign governments because no government will buy communications equipment from a company seemingly controlled in any way by the government of a foreign country.

    Frankly I would rather the CPP investment fund go to Vegas and let it ride at the roulette table over this 'investment'. Blackberry needs to be taken private so they can figure stuff out without the pressure of quarterly reports to Wall Street, they need an activist owner that knows what they are doing, not some silent investor who will help Thorsten pack his golden parachute at the expense of Canada's collective retirement.
    09-07-13 12:18 AM
  16. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Which is why they will not buy. The CPP needs to buy into companies that can grow the the CPP endowment for the day that current contributions can no longer meet its obligations to the retirees of Canada.

    Investing in BB is not a good investment. It will only prop up the share price. Propping up the share price with CPP investment trust money is a transfer of wealth to the current shareholders of BlackBerry at the expense of future generations of Canadian retirees. It also allows incompetent management who have run the business into the ground to cash out any share holdings, stock options or vesting shares at an propped up price. Again a net transfer of funds from working Canadians/future retirees to people that have failed in their job.

    You will also hurt BBs ability to sell product to foreign governments because no government will buy communications equipment from a company seemingly controlled in any way by the government of a foreign country.

    Frankly I would rather the CPP investment fund go to Vegas and let it ride at the roulette table over this 'investment'. Blackberry needs to be taken private so they can figure stuff out without the pressure of quarterly reports to Wall Street, they need an activist owner that knows what they are doing, not some silent investor who will help Thorsten pack his golden parachute at the expense of Canada's collective retirement.
    I actually agree with you that this investment is somewhat speculative if they overpay. There would be other pensions and the Cdn banks involved too. They think they can make money by breaking up the company and reselling or going public again down the road. They would not control BB nor would they put in billions.

    They would be trying for another Skype success.

    Canadian Pension Plan makes $1 billion from Skype deal
    09-07-13 10:34 AM
  17. wjptam's Avatar
    Again you are overlooking the difference in the situation between investing in a nascent Skype in need of venture capital to expand and Blackberry which (others in this thread have pointed out) at this point doesn't need capital. Blackberry needs an owner detached emotionally from what the company has done to this point to make hard decisions about what businesses they should be in going forward.

    Unfortunately because the smartphone market is more or less settled for the short-medium term, these decisions can generally only mean a smaller Blackberry.
    09-09-13 08:08 AM
  18. ray689's Avatar
    Ridiculous comparison. While the AIG and other insurance/bank bailouts were politically motivated to some degree, the their derivatives contracts that were about to go bad included multiple counterparties all over the world and had a notional value in the trillions of dollars. Yes, literally trillions.

    As for GM and Ford, those companies employed hundreds of thousands of workers, and are highly unionized...their downfall could have a big impact during congressional, senate and presidential elections. They also contribute heavily to US GDP.

    BB on the other hand employs roughly 10,000 people and contributes a miniscule amount to Canada's GDP. They are far from being 'too big to fail' which is what you are implying.
    Well there's irony for you. Only "too big to fail" entities shall require government intervention to prevent their FAILURE.

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-13 08:27 AM
  19. Wiki Cydia's Avatar
    Well there's irony for you. Only "too big to fail" entities shall require government intervention to prevent their FAILURE.

    Posted via CB10
    I'm not following you on the irony in that. If the government decides a company is too big to fail, and then doesn't let it fail, there's no irony. However, it would be ironic if the government decided a company was too big to fail, and yet let it fail anyway.
    09-09-13 09:18 AM
  20. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    The Government of Canada should seize control of BlackBerry and sentence the senior management team to 1 winter in the high arctic on Ellesmere Island. Nobody would survive because they'd be too busy forming special committees instead of gathering food and building shelter. As a Crown Corporation the former BlackBerry would be immune from speculation and the investment community.
    09-09-13 10:16 AM
  21. wjptam's Avatar
    CPPIB is bidding $6 Billion for a stake in Neimann Marcus.

    Unlike smartphone OSes, excessive luxury that the 1% can rub in the face of the 99% will never go out of style. That's the type of investment that's easy to justify to a CPPIB fund manager.
    09-09-13 11:44 AM
  22. ray689's Avatar
    I'm not following you on the irony in that. If the government decides a company is too big to fail, and then doesn't let it fail, there's no irony. However, it would be ironic if the government decided a company was too big to fail, and yet let it fail anyway.
    No the irony is if they are too big to fail then by definition they wouldn't fail. A true free market doesn't require intervention from government. If these entities failed because of bad business decisions then why is it up to the tax payers to bail them out while average people are losing their homes due to the too big to fail banks making poor choices.

    Posted via CB10
    09-09-13 03:00 PM
  23. anon1727506's Avatar
    The Government of Canada should seize control of BlackBerry and sentence the senior management team to 1 winter in the high arctic on Ellesmere Island. Nobody would survive because they'd be too busy forming special committees instead of gathering food and building shelter. As a Crown Corporation the former BlackBerry would be immune from speculation and the investment community.
    Speculation and the investment community is not what stopped BB10 devices from selling.

    A small bailout or a buyout is not going to suddenly change the minds of consumers that the BB10 ecosystem is unusable right now. And it isn't going to settle the fears of IT people wondering IF BES support is going to be there 6 Month or 2 Years from now.

    BlackBerry has problems that extend far beyond market concerns or ever a question of how much money they have. There problem is they haven't been spending enough in the right places. IF a buyer were to come along and wanted to turn things around.... it would be very time consuming and expensive. And IMHO it would be a very risky prospect with at this point not much of a chance of success.
    09-09-13 03:29 PM
  24. qwerty4ever's Avatar
    Speculation and the investment community is not what stopped BB10 devices from selling.

    A small bailout or a buyout is not going to suddenly change the minds of consumers that the BB10 ecosystem is unusable right now. And it isn't going to settle the fears of IT people wondering IF BES support is going to be there 6 Month or 2 Years from now.
    My point is the government could ensure the platform remains viable if only out of self-interest due to its heavy reliance upon BlackBerry smartphones and BlackBerry Enterprise Server / Service across all Government of Canada departments, agencies, and crown corporations.
    09-09-13 04:05 PM
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