1. JulesDB's Avatar
    Everyone knows that the lack of applications is the main problem for BlackBerry but I can not understand why Android, many of which work very well although in emulated mode thanx to the Android Runtime, are not already in the market owned by blackberry.

    I mean: if people find a richer market, especially with the most wanted apps, even BB10 would have more success.

    Rather than trying to take Google Play on BlackBerry10, would be enough to convince developers to bring their applications, without any modification to make them native...
    12-07-15 06:44 PM
  2. early2bed's Avatar
    Convince them how? By highlighting the market share of BB10 handsets that BlackBerry may or may not continue developing?
    12-07-15 06:54 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    There are plenty of Android apps in BB World - these were apps that were "wrapped" into BAR files, some unmodified and some with some level of modification, by their developers. They aren't advertised as Android apps, but they are.

    And, you're right - there are tons of Android apps that could be similarly converted with very little effort from the dev, and even more apps that could be converted with some degree of development changes by the dev.

    The problem is that most devs simply aren't interested.

    Devs are busy people. Having another store to keep track of, and another platform to have to test against, simply isn't worth it to them when the number of additional users they might gain is so small - and especially when they know that the people who are willing to work for it can find a way to get the Android app they're already supporting from the store they're already supporting.

    I'm an Audio/Video consultant. I do estimates all the time, and people are always trying to get me to (commit to) do extra work for free. "Can't you just do that too while you're here?" No, sorry, this is a business, and if I touch something, you're going to expect me to support it, and there are all kinds of things that could go wrong. If you want me to take on all that potential extra work and responsibility, I need to get paid.

    Devs make the same kind of judgements. Extra stores and extra platforms mean a lot of extra work for them, and all of that time and effort eats into the time and energy they have to spend on their bread & butter projects (aka their iOS and Android apps). The value proposition simply isn't there.

    That's the reason why BB couldn't sell devs: what they were selling is "work harder, for less potential upside!" A dev who has 5 spare hours a week would rather spend that time improving his existing (iOS and Android) apps - improving his uptake on those big app stores - or coming up with a new app for those stores. Either one of those is likely to give far better returns than making a version of his app for a much smaller ecosystem - and BB10 is now in 5th place, after WinPhone and Tizen.

    The whole reason BB is now an Android OEM is because there was simply no viable solution to the app issue for BB10. Having an app ecosystem doesn't guarantee success, but not having one definitely guarantees failure.
    12-07-15 08:38 PM
  4. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    The problem is that most devs simply aren't interested.
    OP is there anything in Troy's post that is not clear to you?
    12-08-15 12:29 AM
  5. JulesDB's Avatar
    OP is there anything in Troy's post that is not clear to you?
    Yes.

    I definitely like every Troy's post because of his analisys capacity.

    since the applications are the same, I can not understand why putting them in another market would mean "increased work" being the same applications.

    Moreover, I did not mean that applications are to be coded or "ported" in .bar but has to remain .apk.

    Those ported apps in BBW are generally old versions of the ones you can find in Google Play, including Skype on Amazon.

    Putting the same app on BBW may take zero time and considered the average size of an application, it could be done just by one person for everyone.

    The only reason I can think of they aren't already on BBW is that Google prevents app leakage from his Play Store... sort of... or BlackBerry asking for .bar apps...

    There's more: not all developers are the same, some do it as a second job, others have a team of coders, are we absolutely sure that all the coders aren't so interested in another window for their product?
    12-08-15 03:30 AM
  6. Soulstream's Avatar
    Yes.

    I definitely like every Troy's post because of his analisys capacity.

    since the applications are the same, I can not understand why putting them in another market would mean "increased work" being the same applications.

    Moreover, I did not mean that applications are to be coded or "ported" in .bar but has to remain .apk.

    Those ported apps in BBW are generally old versions of the ones you can find in Google Play, including Skype on Amazon.

    Putting the same app on BBW may take zero time and considered the average size of an application, it could be done just by one person for everyone.

    The only reason I can think of they aren't already on BBW is that Google prevents app leakage from his Play Store... sort of...
    Because developing an app also includes testing the app on the devices. Also most Android apps are not designed for 1:1 screens at all.

    Also you must take into account that the Android runtime is starting to show its age. More than 60% of active Android phones are Android 4.4 or over (Android Distribution Updated for November 2015 - Marshmallow Debuts! | Droid Life) and as time goes on and devs update their app for Android they will not be able to run on the runtime. And there is also the problem of Google play services that more and more devs use and they see no reason to make their apps without it just to please 0.5% users of BB10.
    12-08-15 03:37 AM
  7. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Yes.

    I definitely like every Troy's post because of his analisys capacity.

    since the applications are the same, I can not understand why putting them in another market would mean "increased work" being the same applications.

    Moreover, I did not mean that applications are to be coded or "ported" in .bar but has to remain .apk.

    Those ported apps in BBW are generally old versions of the ones you can find in Google Play, including Skype on Amazon.

    Putting the same app on BBW may take zero time and considered the average size of an application, it could be done just by one person for everyone.

    The only reason I can think of they aren't already on BBW is that Google prevents app leakage from his Play Store... sort of... or BlackBerry asking for .bar apps...

    There's more: not all developers are the same, some do it as a second job, others have a team of coders, are we absolutely sure that all the coders aren't so interested in another window for their product?
    Honestly, I kinda saw this coming.
    12-08-15 03:50 AM
  8. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I think we must respect the decisions of the developers.

    I have purchased a few apps this year which have never been updated after 2013 and they work great.

    It depends on the app, I guess:
    Certain apps like messengers for example get continously new features, I can imagine these are work intense apps.
    Other apps just do what they should and are bug free, never need to be updated again.

    However, sometimes I don't understand the devs too.
    For example, there was a great income calculator for the PlayBook, it wasn't free, it didn't ask for any permissions, I never experienced any bugs and it's just a great app... however, the dev pulled it from BBW.
    I was actually looking even in Google Playstore, Amazon Store etc etc whether the dev published a new version or something, but no, it was just gone.

    Edit: Oh, and I made exactly the same experience with a screen saver app that displayed contents from any picture folder (selectable) of my PlayBook in certain intervals (selectable) .
    Last edited by Superdupont 2_0; 12-08-15 at 05:08 AM.
    12-08-15 04:54 AM
  9. early2bed's Avatar
    To anyone who isn't a developer it seems simple. All it takes is pushing a button or 1 minute to compile or whatever you want to boil it down to. It's like saying that a football player gets paid to work for 60 minutes a week and takes 7 months of vacation.

    Developers need to have some of the hardware to actually test the apps they are putting up in the store. Since BlackBerry has a significant variety of screen configurations, each of those, ideally, should be tested. If a developer doesn't have a BB10 device then it's hard to imagine maintaining your app in the store.
    Last edited by early2bed; 12-08-15 at 12:03 PM.
    Tien-Lin Chang likes this.
    12-08-15 11:14 AM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    since the applications are the same, I can not understand why putting them in another market would mean "increased work" being the same applications.
    Because a dev's job doesn't end when he uploads an app to a store - that's just the beginning. Once that app is uploaded, the dev is also expected to support it. If he doesn't support it, or if it doesn't work properly for some reason, he's going to get a lot of negative reviews of his app on that store. That's going to harm his reputation, both with users and with the store's owner. He'll also get endless emails from people complaining about the problems, and he'll have to (at the very least) spend time figuring out which of those are coming from BB users, even if he simply plans to ignore them. But upset users are hard to ignore, and now he's got to start troubleshooting and testing, and that's where he starts losing money. As I explained before, his time is limited and valuable - unless he's wasting time supporting a platform that will give him very little return.

    Folks who have never been developers (or at least worked with them, as I have - I'm not a dev myself) simply don't understand the work involved - especially not the support work that comes after launch. If a dev uploads an app into a store, he is expected to support that app and make a reasonable effort to maintain it. For a great many apps, that's problematic because the BB10 ART is not complete Android, and because many BB10 devices have a non-standard (1:1 ratio) display. This causes things to be broken or at least inconvenient, and that means users will complain. If the dev, say, blocks 1:1-screened devices from downloading his app, as some devs have done, they'll find out and complain about that too. People will track down his Facebook and Twitter pages and complain there. It will be a hassle and a time-drain for the dev.

    Whereas, if a BB10 user has to go to Google Play to get the app, and it doesn't work quite right, the user's expectations are going to be far more realistic - that the app wasn't designed for BB10 (or it's ART), and if some or all of it doesn't work, too bad. Few will bother to complain, as there is a very different expectation when you are knowingly pulling apps from an unsupported app store.

    Let's look at it from another angle: if it was as easy as many people imagine, than devs would be the the habit of uploading their apps directly to dozens of app stores, because: why not? But most devs don't... so, logic dictates that there must be a reason for that, right? The Amazon Marketplace is the second-largest legit Android app store, and look at what a wasteland that is compared to Google Play. And Amazon devices are "real" Android, with normal screen ratios. If it's a hassle getting apps to work there, then imagine how much more hassle it is to get them working with BB10 devices and all of the oddball form factors those devices have.

    As I said in my first post, the value proposition simply wasn't there. Devs prefer FEWER platforms and FEWER stores, because that lets them spend more of their time developing, instead of supporting endless variations of the same app. And they aren't sad for people who knowingly chose a platform with very limited app support.
    12-08-15 02:23 PM
  11. ddamayanti's Avatar
    However, sometimes I don't understand the devs too.
    For example, there was a great income calculator for the PlayBook, it wasn't free, it didn't ask for any permissions, I never experienced any bugs and it's just a great app... however, the dev pulled it from BBW.
    I was actually looking even in Google Playstore, Amazon Store etc etc whether the dev published a new version or something, but no, it was just gone.
    .
    Well, maybe ... just maybe ... the devs got offer from a bigger company to buy the apps for their own internal purposes, and part of the deal are the apps must be withdrawn from the store and the devs supported the buyer full-time. Given enough financial incentives, the devs may decide it is better to support the buyer than depending on app sales ...
    12-11-15 08:53 PM
  12. nt300's Avatar
    Because Android apps are None inelegant.

    Rocking a Z30
    12-12-15 10:54 AM

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