The time is there to get a full touch device and new BBOS 12

I work at a big operator in the Netherlands and I see customers and business clients that using a Z10 or Z30 looking for a new full touch screen device but there is only the Leap. The Leap is a nice upgrade from the Z10 but the Z30 is the same price and we don't have that one. I also see busines client looking for an alternative, but they wanted full touchscreen, There is the Leap, but they wanted a better phone with specs so they keeping up with there iphone or moving to another platform.

What I see is that BlackBerry is missing the boat in the repeat purchasinging market and prospect market because there is not a good alternative for them. I have clients moving to Sony Z3, iphone 6 and Samsung S6 and people willing to try out BBOS10. .

I think blackberry could sell more phone's to these people with a midpriced phone around € 450-500. My opinion is to get the same design like the Z30 and call it Z35. Only change the chipset to a 801 with a cpu 2,3 Ghz . Keep 2 GB RAM, 13 MP camera , LED screen and 3200-3500 mAh battery.

Why there are still a few million Z10 and Z30 phone's moving there way to a new device and to get these people ,they should get in touch with these people buy BBM for example to say they could get a discount for that phone.

Another thing is BB10, It's a 3 year old name and people asking when they get a new version o Dear.

They shoud get an easy update with some new icons, maybe similair with Android. Second they could get Android runtime 6 for excisting users and to show BB is moving on. That are the only thing to show they still alive and there is choice and it could give a boost because ios and Android people in the market looking for an alternative at the moment, they are becoming more aware of all security issues at the moment.

So what I should do if I was CEO -

- Get a new full touchscreen device first
- Get new name for BBOS10 and move on to BBOS12 (why because they never used Android Runtime 5) with Android runtime 6 with app permission and new icons like BB Android the get more uniform. Also tell the media people could controll there apps with BlackBerry Apps completly and now also with Android apps. So Switch of some datamining and get in control what you share. It's what people get more aware of these days.

People get intresting what is going on, there is a new OS and full touchscreen device is what 99 % of the people really buying ,even when they say there missing a qwerty keyboard.

That's a nice fantasy, but it will never happen.

Yeah, I appreciate you know people that our interested, but unfortunately there aren't enough of them out there.

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Dude... we had that before! There a constant and loyal BlackBerry user base. But BlackBerry proofed more than once, that despite this fan base, you can't market BlackBerry smartphones profitable!

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The problem is that the cost of moving a platform along to keep up with iOS and Android is prohibitive. You pick and choose the limited upgrades that you want but the next guy expects fingerprint unlock, or the ability to use any of the popular mobile payment systems, or Microsoft Office, or any of a dozen other platform enhancements that are already widely available. Not to mention the lack Google Play which is a pretty much essential if you're going advertise the availability of Android apps.

John Chen already has a BlackBerry 12 upgrade path with Android. It has all of the features that your users want.

Why not dream about android 7 runtime, just as likely as 6 and it is a bigger number

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OP, did you not already start a thread on this?

http://forums.crackberry.com/showthread.php?t=1060238

Yes it true I'm dreaming of a new device and new BBOS, because there is some marketing. Windows is allready going down in sales and hardly to find in stores. There at least 3 BlackBerry Devices we push and only no Windows device. My believe is that this is the moment to fill up a small gap and that only happens if you have something new.

You have people with BB10 device with full screen eager to get a new full touch device like my wife, brother and more people. There are also people out there more aware about security issues and they are wanted to buy a BlackBerry 10 device with full touch screen mainly because the phone they have is an ios/Android device with full touch screen.

The leap is what we offer but they wanted the Leap with the specs we know from the Passport, they wanted to get a upgrade and not the same camera of cpu like the iphone 5 (s) or 6 or Samsung S5 or another device. There is a demand for it and I believe BlackBerry can fill that to sell some extra phone's only if they get also a upgraded OS that sounds new to boost some extra. I could be a second change to get BBOS , also the media is positive about BlackBerry.

BlackBerry OS should be upgrade with Android Runtime 6 , not only to show off that they still in business but also to launch the OS again and people like new stuff. the number 10 sounds old and we allready get windows 10. So move on with BBOS 12.

The other part of the coin is to support BB10 users an update with is a final push to give us some future to use our phone for a longer time. Not like the Playbook that is stucked with Android runtime 2.x and it's a shame they didn't pushed it to 4.x and with some little extra like a new browser and keyboard layout. We all still used our playbooks (3).

So it's double and maybe I'm dreaming but my guts, feeling and the reaction of business is that they like to get another OS, so get that new os for another try and get a full touch screen device which people dig.

We've been around and around on this for more than a year. There are countless reasons why it can't, and won't ever happen.

Even if the hypothetical scenario proposed were to be carried out by BlackBerry, why would an iOS or Android fan consider a BlackBerry 1x device over what already exists?

If I were a feature phone user today looking to join in the smartphone craze, why should I choose a BlackBerry device over existing Chinese made low end Androids, high end Samsung ones or an iPhone? All BlackBerry could offer is security, security, security with nothing else to add. BBM is no longer anything special and has fallen so far behind its contemporary competitors. OK, maybe PKB is the only true differentiation factor for a very small niche of users.

Give bes cloud for free with bb10 phones might help a little.

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Originally Posted by filanto

Give bes cloud for free with bb10 phones might help a little.

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It's my understanding that they lose money on every BB10 phone they sell and make money on BES.

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I have doubt they sell enough Priv devices and the BlackBerry 10 lauch was bad and allready doomed by the media. The media is on there hand and I believe if they play there cards well it could be a different with a BBOS12. They must play it on privacy, apps permission and control about your phone and control of BBM. Also tell apart you don't get copyright about what you send, we don;t bother and also don't storage your information or selling your information. Tell you give privacy and the control about your privacy. Keep repeating that.

They should give it another try ,because I don't have the feeling the Priv is the answer at the moment. We sale more Leaps and Passport at my department than the Priv.

I believe in a good push with the media because windows 10 has also problems.

You can choose for a world with Android and ios or you can choose for privacy and control about your privacy with BlackBerry 12 and BlackBerry Messenger.

Originally Posted by GadgetTravel

It's my understanding that they lose money on every BB10 phone they sell and make money on BES.

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You right but the Priv is not the answer at the moment, BlackBerry claims it but we don't see it in sales and still the media is positive ,BlackBerry is not dead.

Came out from dreams....it is awaking time.

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Originally Posted by GadgetTravel

It's my understanding that they lose money on every BB10 phone they sell and make money on BES.

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So the $230 profit per device was BBOS devices only...... That is all out wrong. They apparently don't make as big of a profit on BB10 devices as they need to sustain operations given the sales numbers. The same will be true for Priv if they cant sell their 5 million quota. I cant see them keeping up with android at a lower long term cost than maintaining BB10 though. Android is going to catch up with them as long as they are trying to keep the "Blackberry experience" and "security" that they promise with the Priv alive. A skeleton team is not going to do, as you have seen so far with the quality of the software. The fact that they can develop security patches for BB10 while maintaining Priv and require half the device sales still says that they could have done more with BB10 than they lead people to believe. I think there is an untold story here and we are all waaaay off target.

Originally Posted by fingernipp

So the $230 profit per device was BBOS devices only...... That is all out wrong. They apparently don't make as big of a profit on BB10 devices as they need to sustain operations given the sales numbers. The same will be true for Priv if they cant sell their 5 million quota. I cant see them keeping up with android at a lower long term cost than maintaining BB10 though. Android is going to catch up with them as long as they are trying to keep the "Blackberry experience" and "security" that they promise with the Priv alive. A skeleton team is not going to do, as you have seen so far with the quality of the software. The fact that they can develop security patches for BB10 while maintaining Priv and require half the device sales still says that they could have done more with BB10 than they lead people to believe. I think there is an untold story here and we are all waaaay off target.

You're confusing gross margin with net profits.

If a BB10 phone provides $100 gross margin on the device sale itself, but it costs $1000/phone to develop and support the OS, you are still losing a ton of money.

To sustain BB10 long term, you need a full blown developer infrastructure.

To tweak Android, and develop apps for it, you need a tiny fraction of the investment.

I imagine a low cost device using Passport hardware in a 16:9 aspect ratio candy bar 5"+ format. It could run an upgraded BB10 based OS with a work / play mode that will boot to an android environment for play and BB10 for work. Of course it would be forked android with a GUI to compliment the BB10 experience and can be uninstalled completely if desired. What would be even better is a pay option to purchase Google services for a genuine android experience on the "play setting" for those who might want this. Unlikely something like that could happen but I feel it would please a lot of people.

Originally Posted by conite

You're confusing gross margin with net profits.

If a BB10 phone provides $100 gross margin on the device sale itself, but it costs $1000/phone to develop and support your the OS, you are still losing a ton of money.

To sustain BB10 long term, you need a full blown developer infrastructure.

To tweak Android, and develop apps for it, you need a tiny fraction of the investment.

This was also never discussed with the Priv. We are comparing apples to apples. It is apparently still a significant investment seeing how all manufacturing is outsourced and they have a tiny crew now dedicated to android yet still need 50% of the sales.

Originally Posted by fingernipp

This was also never discussed with the Priv. We are comparing apples to apples. It is apparently still a significant investment seeing how all manufacturing is outsourced and they have a tiny crew now dedicated to android yet still need 50% of the sales.

The ability to halve sales equates to hundreds of millions of dollars in savings.

Still the media is positive and there are users wanted a full touch device and prospects looking for a full touchscreen device which is different than Android or ios. Still if you bring something new is more intresting than to sell again BBOS10. I still thing that it's there last change to see if they can come back with a BBOS or don't do nothing and let it die in the process.

Originally Posted by whatsever

Still the media is positive and there are users wanted a full touch device and prospects looking for a full touchscreen device which is different than Android or ios. Still if you bring something new is more intresting than to sell again BBOS10. I still thing that it's there last change to see if they can come back with a BBOS or don't do nothing and let it die in the process.

It has already been decided. You're just spinning your wheels.

The problem with BlackBerry as a company today is the CEO. The same individual that doesn't know how to sell phones, and doesn't listen to BlackBerry customers. There's Millions of Z10 and Z30 owners looking for a BB10 full touch upgrade. And what does the fool do? He releases the BlackBerry Leap that caters to absolutely nobody. So if it isn't that obvious, he's trying to kill the companies hardware division. For years now, many have been asking for a proper Z10 and Z30 upgrade. Major Corporations and Government have been asking for a secure BlackBerry tablet powered by BB10.
Where are these mysterious BB10 devices? The same devices that "Would Have" helped the company increase its hardware presence and mend all the damage JC has done to not only BB10 but to the App Developers.

You have to see the reaction to people when they pick up a BlackBerry (Priv), because they are looking for a modern upgrade from what they've been using for years, and behold, it runs Android, the very OS they want to dump in the garbage. Apps be dammed, make the proper devices, market properly, work with carriers, and people will by BB10 hardware. A very simple and straight forward strategy, and yet Mr. CEO becomes completely clueless.

Originally Posted by whatsever

Still the media is positive and there are users wanted a full touch device and prospects looking for a full touchscreen device which is different than Android or ios. Still if you bring something new is more intresting than to sell again BBOS10. I still thing that it's there last change to see if they can come back with a BBOS or don't do nothing and let it die in the process.

I agree 100%.
But JC is clueless.

Originally Posted by conite

It has already been decided. You're just spinning your wheels.

What Smart Phone do you use? If its what I think it is, then your posts become meaningless at best.

Originally Posted by ATI nsider

The problem with BlackBerry as a company today is the CEO. The same individual that doesn't know how to sell phones, and doesn't listen to BlackBerry customers. There's Millions of Z10 and Z30 owners looking for a BB10 full touch upgrade. And what does the fool do? He releases the BlackBerry Leap that caters to absolutely nobody. So if it isn't that obvious, he's trying to kill the companies hardware division. For years now, many have been asking for a proper Z10 and Z30 upgrade. Major Corporations and Government have been asking for a secure BlackBerry tablet powered by BB10.
Where are these mysterious BB10 devices?

Who are these mysterious "major corporations and governments" who have been asking for high-end all-touch BB10 phones and tablets?