[th3h0ff]

So after Microsofts buyout of Nokias Device and Hardware division it seems more and more likely that BBRY, if its to remain a consumer product, will be through a buyout. Just look at the mobile landscape before flaming me please and I am not a troll, I have and love my Z10...

First is Apple, they have always been in control of both the hardware and software side of their products and this is a proven winning formula. (exactly how BBRY was before they antiquated themselves on the software side). Google initially did it different, leveraging their weight in computing services into a mobile platform that could be competitive. Android was not an overnight success though and it took both the deep pockets of Google and the deep core service integration i.e. Gmail, Maps and Search before things became useful and consumer friendly enough to succeed. Although successful, manufactures that licensed the OS heavily modified it which degraded life cycle and QC for the end product and eventually lead to Google establishing a Nexus line and buying out Motorola. Lastly Microsoft... They tried a hybrid Google / Apple approach they created an OS which was not open but could be licensed and then attempted to leverage their dominance in the desktop market to introduce consumers to a third mobile option. Initially they received interest from many OEM's but one really stood out and devoted all of its resources to the success of that platform.... Nokia. The problem with the 3rd party OEM approach is that a manufacturer has to adapt the device to the constraints of the OS it uses. This creates and interesting dilemma that MSFT started to run into as their Software and different hardware evolved which is that they are not utilizing the full potential of the Nokia hardware because its lack of in house service and hardware side integration. Put in lay terms in different ways the OS could do more than the phone and the phone could do more than the OS. With the acquisition yesterday MSFT has effectively squashed that problem and its my belief they will continue to grow more successful.

So that leaves one odd man out.... Samsung. The other 500 lb gorilla in the room. They have made it a well known fact that they intend on using their hardware to compete directly with Google. But what are they left with??? they cant use Googles own OS to do that and internally there have been reports of a fraying relationship between the 2 already. So what then... TIZEN the in house developed OS made by Samsung which is laughably bad at this point and also comes with almost zero of the IP protection that Android offers its user base... I think it will be BBRY, it makes sense and is familiar to consumers plus it get Samsung into the Business end of the mobile market which is an area they have been struggling to be effective in. Personally a slightly modified BB10 which keep the same core functions and integration with better app and developer support on a piece of Samsung hardware sounds truly competitive and a very effective avenue for our beloved BlackBerry experience to survive and flourish! Thanks for reading, if you'd like let me know what you think,

Andrew

[ray689]

My questions are:

1) how have you become aware of a fraid relationship between Samsung and Google?

2) why do you feel that Tizen in laughable?

3) what makes you think Samsung would abandon android and Tizen in favor of bb10?

4) if number 3 is plausible, why would you want an altered version of bb10?

And finally...

5) are you talking full takeover by Samsung so we would not have any blackberry devices being produced and strictly Samsung?

Posted via CB10

[paingiver]

I didn't even take the time to read the whole post lol! What is people on these days!

Posted via CB10

[mphillips828]

The idea sounds like it could be possible...although anything is possible. It does make sense that Samsung wants their own OS to control and sell. BB10 is looking for "strategic alternatives" and a partnership with Samsung would be probably the best possible outcome for BBRY in terms of consumer sales go. The good thing about this is that BBRY could continue making a QWERTY device, and a single full-touch screen device, while Samsung can then use BB10 and develop multiple devices with high-end specs, low-end specs, mid-range, large screens, smaller screens, etc. Samsung can hit all markets and wants/needs. Thus Samsung will most likely sell to the mass-markets and average consumer, while BB devices will appeal to the business-class, and die-hard BlackBerry fans.

I could see this partnership working this way. I however would NOT want Samsung to have the ability to skin, or alter BB10. They can assist with development and funding, but the way BB10 is shaping up looks to be a very powerful, unique OS. Samsung would android-ify the OS I believe, and this is not what should be done. Keep the OS simply BB10, and Samsung can develop Samsung Native Apps strictly for BB10. Basically Samsung creates apps to place in BlackBerry World for download, and users can download them. That way they have their Samsung apps, and also a Samsung BB10 device would have their native apps pre-installed on the phone.

This could potentially happen, and its nothing forsure, but there are hints of a possible partnership because Samsung is the ONLY company to officially market or announce BBM coming to their phones, but it is known that BBM will be hitting all android devices running 4.1 or higher, and iOS. So why would Samsung be the only one willing to spend their time, money and effort in marketing and announcing BBM. Maybe because they have created a partnership that will be announced September 12th!??!!

[FlashFlare11]

I disagree.

First of all, I think we'll see Microsoft develop its mobile division into an end-to-end solution much like Apple and BlackBerry. For companies that value the overall user experience, this is the ideal model. Microsoft felt this way and decided to retain total control over Windows Phone and prevent it from sharing the fate that its desktop brother faces. Microsoft is growing tired of having the reputation of Windows be decided by its various manufacturers. I know Microsoft stated that they'll still license Windows Phone, but I think we'll see that wind down until Microsoft is the sole manufacturer of Windows Phones. Clearly, Apple and BlackBerry, companies that value the user experience over all else, see this as well and have chosen, in my opinion, the correct model to follow. If BlackBerry were to license BlackBerry 10 to anyone else, it would be walking into the problems Microsoft escaped with the acquisition of Nokia.

Secondly, BlackBerry 10, despite being a fantastic OS, hasn't yet shown that it can win over consumers the same way Android and iOS can. While I think this will change, in the eyes of manufacturers, I doubt it. Before BlackBerry can even think about licensing BlackBerry 10 (a scenario, I should add, is one that I do NOT want to see), it must show that BlackBerry 10 is a viable OS that can command market share.

Thirdly, licensing BlackBerry 10 does not solve any of the problems the OS is currently facing, namely apps. If Samsung (or anyone else) licenses BlackBerry 10, they inherit the problems that BlackBerry 10 is currently facing. Currently, it doesn't seem as though Google is taking any measures to undercut Samsung with Android so it appears that, for the time being, Samsung should be relatively safe using Android. In addition to this, Samsung has shown its capacity to be able to build its own app catalogue and is turning into a software/end-to-end solution maker on its own accord. Couple this with the upcoming Tizen OS and Samsung seems to have a back-up countermeasure to Google limiting Android.

As someone who values the user experience above all else, I'm hoping BlackBerry does not license BlackBerry 10 to another handset manufacturer and retain complete and total control over both the hardware and software facets of its mobile division. I do not want to see BlackBerry 10 fragmented and have its fate left to various OEMs.

[th3h0ff]

My questions are:

1) how have you become aware of a fraid relationship between Samsung and Google?

2) why do you feel that Tizen in laughable?

3) what makes you think Samsung would abandon android and Tizen in favor of bb10?

4) if number 3 is plausible, why would you want an altered version of bb10?

And finally...

5) are you talking full takeover by Samsung so we would not have any blackberry devices being produced and strictly Samsung?

Posted via CB10

Good questions and these are just my hypothesis and definitely not fact. I'll try and answer in order.

1. The decay of Google Samsung relationship has been widely reported through reliable channels such as the Wall Street Journal and Forbes. I could post the link to the articles but a quick google on the matter will point in all the right directions.

2. Here is the last video of Tizen in action... . Maybe laughable isnt the right word but acceptable in a market with established mobile OS this day in age it would not be. I see it more as an ASHA (nokia low end) possibility. Tizen offers no distinct functionality over Android and in doing so does so without the IP protection of Android. Realistically this makes a market break through unlikely.

3. Kind of the same answer and reasons above with the added benefit of Blackberries establish business customers and a segway to that market, a distinguishable difference in terms of functionality over iOS / Android and established IP rights, as well as immediate business credibility... All things ASHA cant provide.

4. I personally wouldnt want an altered version of BB10 but realistically Samsung would need to code in some of the peripheral products they are bringing to market to take advantage of cross function ability, so I reasonably expect it.

5. I see it more as a BBRY cuts its Hardware division (which is being talked about already) and the rest is purchased by Samsung. The relationship would be Samsung makes the Hardware and after purchasing BBRY has its very own shiny new OS to put on it.

Lets also not forget that Samsung is currently the only OEM pushing BBM in its own app store... now maybe we shouldnt read to much into that but it is there...

[th3h0ff]

I disagree.

First of all, I think we'll see Microsoft develop its mobile division into an end-to-end solution much like Apple and BlackBerry. For companies that value the overall user experience, this is the ideal model. Microsoft felt this way and decided to retain total control over Windows Phone and prevent it from sharing the fate that its desktop brother faces. Microsoft is growing tired of having the reputation of Windows be decided by its various manufacturers. I know Microsoft stated that they'll still license Windows Phone, but I think we'll see that wind down until Microsoft is the sole manufacturer of Windows Phones. Clearly, Apple and BlackBerry, companies that value the user experience over all else, see this as well and have chosen, in my opinion, the correct model to follow. If BlackBerry were to license BlackBerry 10 to anyone else, it would be walking into the problems Microsoft escaped with the acquisition of Nokia.

Secondly, BlackBerry 10, despite being a fantastic OS, hasn't yet shown that it can win over consumers the same way Android and iOS can. While I think this will change, in the eyes of manufacturers, I doubt it. Before BlackBerry can even think about licensing BlackBerry 10 (a scenario, I should add, is one that I do NOT want to see), it must show that BlackBerry 10 is a viable OS that can command market share.

Thirdly, licensing BlackBerry 10 does not solve any of the problems the OS is currently facing, namely apps. If Samsung (or anyone else) licenses BlackBerry 10, they inherit the problems that BlackBerry 10 is currently facing. Currently, it doesn't seem as though Google is taking any measures to undercut Samsung with Android so it appears that, for the time being, Samsung should be relatively safe using Android. In addition to this, Samsung has shown its capacity to be able to build its own app catalogue and is turning into a software/end-to-end solution maker on its own accord. Couple this with the upcoming Tizen OS and Samsung seems to have a back-up countermeasure to Google limiting Android.

As someone who values the user experience above all else, I'm hoping BlackBerry does not license BlackBerry 10 to another handset manufacturer and retain complete and total control over both the hardware and software facets of its mobile division. I do not want to see BlackBerry 10 fragmented and have its fate left to various OEMs.

Agreed on most points there, although I'm not talking about a licensing deal... I'm talking about a full on purchase

[FlashFlare11]

Agreed on most points there, although I'm not talking about a licensing deal... I'm talking about a full on purchase

Sorry, just re-read and caught that

It's completely plausible to me that Samsung might have a lot of developer support behind Tizen that we're not seeing. For developers, after seeing how much success Samsung's had with Android, the opportunity to developer for another OS with Samsung's support may be enticing. It's possible that if BlackBerry were to be purchased by Samsung, BlackBerry 10 may die out altogether and all we'll see are remnants of BBM and BlackBerry enterprise software. Either that or BlackBerry 10-based devices are only used for business-grade customers while consumers either get Android or Tizen-based devices. It's difficult for me to see Samsung market BlackBerry 10 as a consumer device considering the way BlackBerry is currently positioning BlackBerry 10.

[ray689]

This could potentially happen, and its nothing forsure, but there are hints of a possible partnership because Samsung is the ONLY company to officially market or announce BBM coming to their phones, but it is known that BBM will be hitting all android devices running 4.1 or higher, and iOS. So why would Samsung be the only one willing to spend their time, money and effort in marketing and announcing BBM. Maybe because they have created a partnership that will be announced September 12th!??!!

I wouldn't put too much into Samsung advertising BBM. As much as I would like to think it's a prelude to a potential partnership, it's more likely because they want to be first to try and scoop up any potential defectors from blackberry in emerging markets who were sticking with OS7 because of BBM.



Posted via CB10

[ray689]

Good questions and these are just my hypothesis and definitely not fact. I'll try and answer in order.

1. The decay of Google Samsung relationship has been widely reported through reliable channels such as the Wall Street Journal and Forbes. I could post the link to the articles but a quick google on the matter will point in all the right directions.

2. Here is the last video of Tizen in action... . Maybe laughable isnt the right word but acceptable in a market with established mobile OS this day in age it would not be. I see it more as an ASHA (nokia low end) possibility. Tizen offers no distinct functionality over Android and in doing so does so without the IP protection of Android. Realistically this makes a market break through unlikely.

3. Kind of the same answer and reasons above with the added benefit of Blackberries establish business customers and a segway to that market, a distinguishable difference in terms of functionality over iOS / Android and established IP rights, as well as immediate business credibility... All things ASHA cant provide.

4. I personally wouldnt want an altered version of BB10 but realistically Samsung would need to code in some of the peripheral products they are bringing to market to take advantage of cross function ability, so I reasonably expect it.

5. I see it more as a BBRY cuts its Hardware division (which is being talked about already) and the rest is purchased by Samsung. The relationship would be Samsung makes the Hardware and after purchasing BBRY has its very own shiny new OS to put on it.

Lets also not forget that Samsung is currently the only OEM pushing BBM in its own app store... now maybe we shouldnt read to much into that but it is there...

Well you gave good answers for the most part and make some valid points. Refer to my post above as to why I feel BBM is being marketed by Samsung already.
As far as I want BlackBerry to be successful, I don't know of Samsung would actually follow through and keep bb10. I think BlackBerry needs a strong partnership rather than a buy out but that's my opinion. I guess we don't know either way what the outcome will be.


Posted via CB10

[Andrew4life]

So here is where we stand.
Hardware/Software
Apple / iOS
Motorola / Google Android
Nokia / WIndows
Samsung / Android
BlackBerry / BlackBerry 10
Others / Android

Notice everyone is pairing up. Software to hardware. Except BlackBerry and Samsung. Samsung has Android, but since Google has Motorola making android phones, as well as a million other companies making Android phones, how much long will their success last?

So a very good match might be Samsung and BlackBerry, but wait.....Who would want to buy a Samsung BB10 phone? I'm a BlackBerry fan and might be interested in a Samsung BB10 phone, but a lot of people scream and run when you mention BlackBerry.

BlackBerry is struggling both with hardware and software because neither offer a compelling reason to switch. They might still remain the king for Enterprise, but a lot of companies are cheaping out and going with a more open IT policy.



So what now?
Well, Samsung is likely not going to be staying on Android for much longer. Their last Android phone will likely come before Q4 of 2014. Which gives them just over a year to come up with something new. OR partner up. I think Samsung is much more likely to come up with their own OS than to license BB10, after all, who really wants to work with someone else when you can control it all. Same reason why Google bought Motorola and Microsoft bought up the handset business of Nokia. None of those were partnerships. They were acquisitions.

BlackBerry is essentially in limbo right now........

[FlashFlare11]

I wouldn't put too much into Samsung advertising BBM. As much as I would like to think it's a prelude to a potential partnership, it's more likely because they want to be first to try and scoop up any potential defectors from blackberry in emerging markets who were sticking with OS7 because of BBM.



Posted via CB10

That ad had little to do with BlackBerry and more to do with Android. Notice that there was no mention of anything "Android" or "Google" in that ad. Samsung is trying its best to differentiate itself from Google and Android. BBM was just a way they could stress that point.

[heymaggie]

"Samsung - you've become the largest and most profitable maker of Android devices. What are you going to do now?"

"We're going to BB10!"

[ray689]

"Samsung - you've become the largest and most profitable maker of Android devices. What are you going to do now?"

"We're going to BB10!"

Lol nice

Posted via CB10

[itsnotaboutart]

With Samsung's licensing WP8 likely nearing its end with Microsoft purchase of Nokia, why wouldn't Samsung at least license BB10?

I can't imagine Samsung is content to be dependent on Google. Keeping another OS alive would provide protection.

The lack of apps did not stop Samsung from dabbling with WP8. In any event, my understanding is Google requires Android licensees to use Google Play. Is there any impediment to Samsung opening a new app store for Android apps that can be accessed via a Samsung BB10 phone? Not rhetorical, I honestly don't know if there are insurmountable legal or technological obstacles.

I personally think Samsung buying BlackBerry makes even more sense because of the added benefit of patents for its eternal litigation against Apple and the synergies with its attempts to get into the enterprise game. But what do I know?

The only part that doesn't make the fit perfect is Tizen. I don't know how viable it is in the near term though.

Posted via CB10

[Alex_Hong]

I think the main question for me is "Why would someone want to buy or partner with BlackBerry?" Hardware? In terms of hardware wouldn't HTC be a better buy? Platform? Why buy when you can just use Android (which already has a solid ecosystem)? If companies like Sony, HTC, LG, are already struggling to catch up to Samsung in the Android market, how would getting BlackBerry 10 help when the platform doesn't have as good an ecosystem compared to Android, and isn't nearly as popular as a mobile platform in consumers' mind. Most consumers don't even know about BlackBerry 10, all they know is BlackBerry is in a "Death Spiral" (yes I said it). If Samsung wanted separation from Google, they can go the Amazon route and just fork Android.

Yes, people are buying Samsung device in droves, but will they still buy Samsung if it ran BlackBerry 10? I don't think so. And If BlackBerry doesn't allow Samsung access to skinning BlackBerry 10 and add their own stuff in it, why would they want BB10 when it doesn't have mind share, and when it doesn't have an ecosystem. They have Windows Phone for that. And even if they were willing to give BB10 a shot, I don't think it would change anything.

So in my opinion, there isn't an existing company (Samsung/Sony/HTC/etc) that would partner with or buy BlackBerry that would keep BlackBerry as we (consumers) know it, an integrated phone manufacturer (OS and hardware). The value in BlackBerry probably will be in the enterprise, M2M, and the other stuffs that probably wouldn't concern us consumers.

In a way i think the press release about considering "strategic alternatives" was the dumbest thing I've seen them do thus far. It screams desperation for me. It was BlackBerry shooting themselves in the foot. BlackBerry has yet to prove BB10 as a viable platform, and that press release will put off consumers that might be considering buying a BlackBerry 10 device. I mean even my local news reported the "BlackBerry is struggling despite BlackBerry 10, and is considering a sale amongst other alternatives". All consumers will know, is that BlackBerry won't be around for long. Developers who are on the fence or thinking about building BlackBerry 10 apps might be put off. Companies looking to upgrade their phones might be put off. Brand perception goes down. They basically thrown in the towel, and prematurely. It hasn't even been a year yet, and it's not as if BlackBerry is in debt. To say I am disappointed is probably an understatement. I would be happy to be proven wrong, but I imagine we'll see sales for BB10 dropping in the coming quarter.

I want BlackBerry to succeed. I think BlackBerry 10 is one of the best OS in the market right now. But we all know what happened to WebOS and Meego. The best case scenario for us BlackBerry fans/consumers, imo would be for it to go private.

[LuvULongTime]

I see Sony and Blackberry as the most likely partnership. Both are companies that could benefit from one another. Sony would have the economy of scale to build BB10 phones cheaper, and in turn they can diversify against android and also leverage QNX in their other consumer products if they so choose.

[CairnsRock]

There are only so many patents in the mobile market. Bbry's patents are for sale.

Samsung, msft, Google and Apple could easily get into a feeding frenzy to snaffle the largest package of mobile patents remaining on the market.

Msft looks the hungriest, with the most to gain and the most to loose, should these patents go to Samsung, Apple or Google.

[nabil114]

So after Microsofts buyout of Nokias Device and Hardware division it seems more and more likely that BBRY, if its to remain a consumer product, will be through a buyout. Just look at the mobile landscape before flaming me please and I am not a troll, I have and love my Z10... First is Apple, they have always been in control of both the hardware and software side of their products and this is a proven winning formula. (exactly how BBRY was before they antiquated themselves on the software side). Google initially did it different, leveraging their weight in computing services into a mobile platform that could be competitive. Android was not an overnight success though and it took both the deep pockets of Google and the deep core service integration i.e. Gmail, Maps and Search before things became useful and consumer friendly enough to succeed. Although succesful, manufactures that licensed the OS heavily modified it which degraded life cycle and QC for the end product which eventually lead to Google establishing a Nexus line and buying out Motorola. Lastly Microsoft... They tried a hybrid Google / Apple approach they created an OS which was not open but could be licensed and then attempted to leverage their dominance in the desktop market to introduce consumers to a third mobile option. Initially they received interest from many OEM's but one really stood out and devoted all of its resources to the success of that platform.... Nokia. The problem with the 3rd party OEM approach is that a manufacturer has to adapt the device to the constraints of the OS it uses. This creates and interesting dilemma that MSFT started to run into as their Software and different hardware evolved which is that they are not utilizing the full potential of the Nokia hardware because its lack of in house service and hardware side integration. Put in lay terms in different ways the OS could do more than the phone and the phone could do more than the OS. With the acquisition yesterday MSFT has effectively squashed that problem and its my belief they will continue to grow more successful. So that leaves one odd man out.... Samsung. The other 500 lb gorilla in the room. They have made it a well known fact that they intend on using their hardware to compete directly with Google. But what are they left with??? they cant use Googles own OS to do that and internally there have been reports of a fraying relationship between the 2 already. So what then... TIZEN the in house developed OS made by Samsung which is laughably bad at this point and also comes with almost zero of the IP protection that Android offers its user base... I think it will be BBRY, it makes sense and is familiar to consumers plus it get Samsung into the Business end of the mobile market which is an area they have been struggling to be effective in. Personally a slightly modified BB10 which keep the same core functions and integration with better app and developer support on a piece of Samsung hardware sounds truly competitive and a very effective avenue for our beloved BlackBerry experience to survive and flourish! Thanks for reading, if you'd like let me know what you think,

Andrew

Anti-trust regulation

[Troy Tiscareno]

I see Sony and Blackberry as the most likely partnership. Both are companies that could benefit from one another. Sony would have the economy of scale to build BB10 phones cheaper, and in turn they can diversify against android and also leverage QNX in their other consumer products if they so choose.

Sony just got done "divorcing" Ericsson so that it could go it alone and react much faster than it could with a partnership. Sony had to PAY for that independence, and since the break-up, Sony has turned their smartphone business around and is improving their marketshare in several of their key markets, including the US.

The chance of Sony buying or partnering with BB is less than zero, IMO. Do some searching and read all of the interviews that Sony has given about their smartphones in the last year and it will be clear to you that the last thing they want is another partner. Sony is doing just fine with Android, and Android has the ecosystem they need to continue to grow. BB has virtually no ecosystem, and that's the key.

[LazyEvul]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Samsung recently make it clear that they weren't interested in BlackBerry? I'll have to go look around for the article, but I swear I remember reading something of the sort.

Edit: Here it is:

The executive made it clear that Samsung has no interest in Canada’s BlackBerry, which has been put up for sale. There has been speculation that Samsung may be interested in BlackBerry’s patent portfolio.

“Samsung Electronics is not considering that opportunity,” she said without elaborating further.

[LuvULongTime]

Sony just got done "divorcing" Ericsson so that it could go it alone and react much faster than it could with a partnership. Sony had to PAY for that independence, and since the break-up, Sony has turned their smartphone business around and is improving their marketshare in several of their key markets, including the US.

The chance of Sony buying or partnering with BB is less than zero, IMO. Do some searching and read all of the interviews that Sony has given about their smartphones in the last year and it will be clear to you that the last thing they want is another partner. Sony is doing just fine with Android, and Android has the ecosystem they need to continue to grow. BB has virtually no ecosystem, and that's the key.

I'm not suggesting they dump android, merely that some from of partnership with BBRY could give them and extra option their back pocket.

[Troy Tiscareno]

I'm not suggesting they dump android, merely that some from of partnership with BBRY could give them and extra option their back pocket.

They don't need an extra option. Sony isn't an enterprise company, they are a consumer electronics company. CONSUMER. Consumers want an ecosystem, and BB doesn't have one (worth mentioning).

And Sony doesn't want or need another partner. They just got out of such a relationship, and specifically want to go it alone, so they can react quicker and turn ideas into products faster. Partnering with BB would go against all of Sony's stated goals.

[si_chindo]

I hope Blackberry survive in some form or another even as a small niche player. My self worth isnt dependent on my phone being no. 1.

[m_santos]

my thought