05-11-20 01:45 PM
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  1. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Individuals wouldn't be nearly enough - you would need buy-in and financial support from a bunch of big tech companies, and your vetting process would need outside review and certification.

    Then, what happens to this company if threats make it past your screening? Can you guarantee perfection? if not, how many breeches before customers lose faith? What if Google copies your process?

    And most of all, how does this company become profitable?
    03-29-20 05:19 PM
  2. DonHB's Avatar
    $10.

    On second thought, $0.

    Solutions already exist that are far more powerful and supported.
    OK. What would you recommend?
    03-29-20 06:43 PM
  3. conite's Avatar
    OK. What would you recommend?
    Apple or Android. Vet your own apps, or vet them for those on your EMM.
    Last edited by conite; 03-29-20 at 08:14 PM.
    03-29-20 06:46 PM
  4. DonHB's Avatar
    I thought you had better supported more powerful solutions for privacy besides containerization that you described before.
    03-29-20 07:08 PM
  5. app_Developer's Avatar
    I thought you had better supported more powerful solutions for privacy besides containerization that you described before.
    To build the DRM system you want you need 3 things:

    1.) An identity provider, adopted and agreed upon by all the users of your system.

    2.) A crypto scheme that allows you to protect content with users or groups or trees of users and groups (already provided by every OS, even including hardware key mgmt)

    3.) a partner or investor(s) who can help you get to enough scale with both content creators and consumers to make this have a real impact.

    That’s it. You don’t need a new OS (or an old OS).
    03-29-20 07:29 PM
  6. conite's Avatar
    I thought you had better supported more powerful solutions for privacy besides containerization that you described before.
    You asked about a curated store.

    If you want the kind of privacy you're alluding to, BB10 brings nothing new to the table.

    You need to build policies and procedures at the app level. Better to use a platform that is ubiquitous and supported.
    03-29-20 08:17 PM
  7. DonHB's Avatar
    To build the DRM system you want you need 3 things:

    1.) An identity provider, adopted and agreed upon by all the users of your system.

    2.) A crypto scheme that allows you to protect content with users or groups or trees of users and groups (already provided by every OS, even including hardware key mgmt)

    3.) a partner or investor(s) who can help you get to enough scale with both content creators and consumers to make this have a real impact.

    That’s it. You don’t need a new OS (or an old OS).
    Could you explain #2 a little better? Specifically, "trees of users and groups".

    Thanks.
    03-30-20 01:32 AM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    Could you explain #2 a little better? Specifically, "trees of users and groups".

    Thanks.
    Delegated or transitive access
    03-30-20 08:42 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I thought you had better supported more powerful solutions for privacy besides containerization that you described before.
    Anything is better supported than QNX or BB10.
    03-30-20 09:43 AM
  10. ezubeBB2013's Avatar
    Why do you ask these questions to CB Forum members? There’s zero impact here even for those people that support your hypothetical situations.

    What does BlackBerry say to your questions when you ask them?
    Why not ask CB forum members? I find the discussions interesting. I didn't know half about qnx in the car industry.

    Posted via CB10
    04-26-20 04:12 PM
  11. DonHB's Avatar
    Why not ask CB forum members? I find the discussions interesting. I didn't know half about qnx in the car industry.

    Posted via CB10
    Let's start with you. What would get you to buy a Samsung phone (with Knox) and a BB10 autoloader (software features etc.)? How much would you pay to be able to replace Android with BB10?

    I would spend $100 for the OS if the native browser is updated and the Dalvik based Android Player would be replaced with at least Android 4.4. I may even consider it if Android remains at 4.3, if in-app purchases on BlackBerry World would be re-enabled; a much smaller investment and the Android update could be dependent on customer purchase numbers. I would switch to an OS subscription if there was work being made to upgrade Android support to Android 9 or whatever version Amazon will be supporting in its devices when the work is completed. This autoloader could add a phone (more "sticky" than any other Amazon device) to Amazon's "ecosystem" while making the phone more privacy protected (needed because it is more "stcky") than the FireTV, etc.

    With your answer maybe we could start an informal survey under the BB10 Forum. This is really about funding a work in progress.
    Last edited by DonHB; 04-26-20 at 04:57 PM.
    04-26-20 04:46 PM
  12. early2bed's Avatar
    It’s like the age-old question of how many apps do you need to have in your app store? Everyone can only think of a couple dozen of their own must-haves but then everyone’s list is different. So, it turns out you need tens of thousands. Everyone’s all aboard on the basics but when it comes time to coughing up the funds they suddenly have their conditions.
    Last edited by early2bed; 04-28-20 at 08:09 AM.
    04-27-20 08:09 AM
  13. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Let's start with you. What would get you to buy a Samsung phone (with Knox) and a BB10 autoloader (software features etc.)? How much would you pay to be able to replace Android with BB10?

    I would spend $100 for the OS if the native browser is updated and the Dalvik based Android Player would be replaced with at least Android 4.4. I may even consider it if Android remains at 4.3, if in-app purchases on BlackBerry World would be re-enabled; a much smaller investment and the Android update could be dependent on customer purchase numbers. I would switch to an OS subscription if there was work being made to upgrade Android support to Android 9 or whatever version Amazon will be supporting in its devices when the work is completed. This autoloader could add a phone (more "sticky" than any other Amazon device) to Amazon's "ecosystem" while making the phone more privacy protected (needed because it is more "stcky") than the FireTV, etc.

    With your answer maybe we could start an informal survey under the BB10 Forum. This is really about funding a work in progress.

    But there is no work in progress... BB10 developers are gone for the most part, might be a few that have been transferred to other areas at BlackBerry. But not the numbers needed for what you want.

    I've still haven't seen any real interest in your proposal. Do you ever do a poll? Why not see how many "votes" you can get for $100.

    Or better yet, set up a Crowd Funding site yet? And see how much cash you can raise towards your goal.
    04-27-20 09:14 AM
  14. joeldf's Avatar
    This is really about funding a work in progress.
    Work on what? And by whom?

    You're talking about proprietary systems and software from BlackBerry and Samsung. And neither is going to give up a darned thing for this idea.

    I love BB10... been using it since 2013. I have a Samsung Galaxy S9 now. It serves its purpose, and having added the Hub+ apps and the BB virtual keyboard (and using the Nova Launcher instead of stock or the BB launcher), I'm happy with it. I certainly wouldn't pay another red cent on a working device - much less another 100 dollars for no real world every-day benefit - that's just crazy talk.
    04-27-20 10:33 AM
  15. conite's Avatar
    Work on what? And by whom?

    You're talking about proprietary systems and software from BlackBerry and Samsung. And neither is going to give up a darned thing for this idea.

    I love BB10... been using it since 2013. I have a Samsung Galaxy S9 now. It serves its purpose, and having added the Hub+ apps and the BB virtual keyboard (and using the Nova Launcher instead of stock or the BB launcher), I'm happy with it. I certainly wouldn't pay another red cent on a working device - much less another 100 dollars for no real world every-day benefit - that's just crazy talk.
    Ah, but millions of users are prepared to commit $100s each to start up development again.

    Once that happens, the users will be asked for $100s or $1000s more to get a deliverable in a couple of years.
    04-27-20 11:57 AM
  16. DonHB's Avatar
    I guess I should have written "restart a work in progress." The point is that over time and with customer funding, privacy issues prevalent in iOS and Android could be addressed. The other is that with a smaller customer base focused on privacy, this base can more easily drive future development direction. This latter idea is a conceptual stumbling block for BlackBerry which has never been very customer/potential customer oriented. The other thing to emphasize is that the product cycle could be two to three times as long than with the duopoly's products. We will not get true privacy innovations for a while, but it will not be worse than what we have now.

    The idea is similar to crowd funding, but with a "pay-it-backward & forward" twist. The key question is: How minimalist can changes in BB10 functionality be that would attract buy-in? I indicated what I would want above.
    04-27-20 08:16 PM
  17. conite's Avatar
    The point is that over time and with customer funding, privacy issues prevalent in iOS and Android could be addressed.
    Addressed how? You keep jumping back and forth between simply offering a more privacy-centric OS to an industry-wide paradigm shift as to how files and data are managed.

    Neither requires BB10 in any way. It only makes things even harder and more expensive.
    Last edited by conite; 04-29-20 at 06:18 PM.
    04-28-20 09:40 AM
  18. co4nd's Avatar
    Let's start with you. What would get you to buy a Samsung phone (with Knox) and a BB10 autoloader (software features etc.)? How much would you pay to be able to replace Android with BB10?


    With your answer maybe we could start an informal survey under the BB10 Forum. This is really about funding a work in progress.
    Since you want a survey. I would pay $0. If I already have an OS why would I buy a new one?
    04-28-20 12:52 PM
  19. eshropshire's Avatar
    I guess I should have written "restart a work in progress." The point is that over time and with customer funding, privacy issues prevalent in iOS and Android could be addressed. The other is that with a smaller customer base focused on privacy, this base can more easily drive future development direction. This latter idea is a conceptual stumbling block for BlackBerry which has never been very customer/potential customer oriented. The other thing to emphasize is that the product cycle could be two to three times as long than with the duopoly's products. We will not get true privacy innovations for a while, but it will not be worse than what we have now.

    The idea is similar to crowd funding, but with a "pay-it-backward & forward" twist. The key question is: How minimalist can changes in BB10 functionality be that would attract buy-in? I indicated what I would want above.
    I am still confused by the "who" would lead the effort. I know BlackBerry Limited has zero interest. So we can eliminate them. Next and only option, a person raises the funds needed to get BlackBerry willing to license the code. People keep posting what a great idea and business can be built using BB10. What I don't understand is if they believe this why don't they do something and prove everyone else here wrong.
    04-28-20 08:14 PM
  20. joeldf's Avatar
    Or, how? Don wants to these phantom developers to magically acquire the BB10 software and Samsung hardware - both highly protected intellectual property - to make some Frankenstein pipe-dream product that no one wants. Certainly not BlackBerry or Samsung.
    04-28-20 10:09 PM
  21. Emaderton3's Avatar
    I guess I should have written "restart a work in progress." The point is that over time and with customer funding, privacy issues prevalent in iOS and Android could be addressed. The other is that with a smaller customer base focused on privacy, this base can more easily drive future development direction. This latter idea is a conceptual stumbling block for BlackBerry which has never been very customer/potential customer oriented. The other thing to emphasize is that the product cycle could be two to three times as long than with the duopoly's products. We will not get true privacy innovations for a while, but it will not be worse than what we have now.

    The idea is similar to crowd funding, but with a "pay-it-backward & forward" twist. The key question is: How minimalist can changes in BB10 functionality be that would attract buy-in? I indicated what I would want above.
    Where are the customer funds coming from? Any good business model should be able to estimate these.
    04-29-20 11:12 AM
  22. DonHB's Avatar
    Addressed how? You keep jumping back and forth between simply offering a more privacy-centric OS to an industry-wide paradigm shift has to how files and data are managed.

    Neither requires BB10 in any way. It only makes things even harder and more expensive.
    NO. I would like an OS to support this to make use and software development easier. Other platforms could be supported with apps. While it would be great if industry would act on the problem, the issue is how to begin addressing the problem. Because the market IS SMALL funding needs to be provided by people that wish to have the problem addressed. People who do, NEED to realize that the development will NOT progress without financial support.

    I have been proposing that a product be offered which DOES NOT YET fully deliver on privacy, but the offering delivers some of what people want with the promise of continued development which will, over time, address the problem. In return for supporting development you will get this product WHEN you pay. The product I would accept in return for my dollars is a mildly revamped BB10.

    Also, the issue of privacy is not limited to phones. So, using an embedded OS makes sense. It would be good to have the same level of privacy delivered in I/EoT too. 7.x, as with prior versions, have the features of Linux. So, it can also be made to fit the desktop again.
    04-29-20 05:17 PM
  23. eshropshire's Avatar
    Or, how? Don wants to these phantom developers to magically acquire the BB10 software and Samsung hardware - both highly protected intellectual property - to make some Frankenstein pipe-dream product that no one wants. Certainly not BlackBerry or Samsung.
    I don't get why he keeps posting his 'well thought out' plans for a new super secure phone on a public forum. If he really believes there is a market, he should write a business plan and start rounding up investors. Once he has a decent investment committed and pledges for additional investment, he should enter into negotiations with BlackBerry to license the technology he needs for his project. If he succeeds he will have the pleasure of saying I told you so to all of his detractors.
    04-29-20 07:21 PM
  24. DonHB's Avatar
    I don't get why he keeps posting his 'well thought out' plans for a new super secure phone on a public forum. If he really believes there is a market, he should write a business plan and start rounding up investors. Once he has a decent investment committed and pledges for additional investment, he should enter into negotiations with BlackBerry to license the technology he needs for his project. If he succeeds he will have the pleasure of saying I told you so to all of his detractors.
    Because BlackBerry is best positioned to execute this. The issue is financing and clearly the people who have answered this thread have no interest in funding an OS to address privacy issues even if it could have applicability to E/IoT.

    Problem with CrackBerry is the naysayers or more "vocal" than aye sayers. Probably this is due to the overt criticism of anything pro BB10.
    04-29-20 07:41 PM
  25. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Because BlackBerry is best positioned to execute this. The issue is financing and clearly the people who have answered this thread have no interest in funding an OS to address privacy issues even if it could have applicability to E/IoT.

    Problem with CrackBerry is the naysayers or more "vocal" than aye sayers.
    That has never truly mattered. BlackBerry and many other companies don’t count on a fan site to make actual business models or plans. The base is too skewed and talk is cheap. Historically, actual paying users never have materialized in any significant numbers...

    It’s like when there’s a Facebook scandal or some different privacy or identity breach. Everyone feigns concern but actual consumer behavior continues as previous or if slight variation, returns to statistical norm shortly thereafter.
    04-29-20 07:47 PM
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