05-11-20 01:45 PM
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  1. early2bed's Avatar
    You keep asserting that this improves privacy. If you make an updated BB10, with a modern web browser and access to Android apps, then how does this system protect a normal user's privacy again?

    Is this the "Cylance magic AI" thing? If so, why not just make that run on Android? Or sailfish? Or something else? Cylance does not require QNX.
    Wait...doesn’t BlackBerry have proprietary privacy and security pixie dust that can be sprinkled onto any operating system, mobile or otherwise? It protects smartphones, IoT, self-driving cars, etc for being hacked and keeps everything you want private by hardening all those soft operating systems. Just be sure type in and hand over your credit card to anyone you want to buy anything from because it doesn’t do tokenized payments - it’s a smartphone.
    02-17-20 09:38 AM
  2. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    A little off topic.. anyone wondering why a car needs two SD 820Am CPUs.

    Tesla's new Samsung built chips - but Tesla designed with their once Apple in house designer.... is capable of 36 trillion operations per second. A 2nd board is provided as backup, so the car would be capable of 72 teraflops. That's like having twelve of the CPU/GUP setup of the XBOX ONE in their new cars.

    But there is no BlackBerry synergy... as Tesla doesn't use subsystems like most Auto OEM, and AGL is what they used to start building their OS. Pretty much one EUC runs all the car.
    02-17-20 03:18 PM
  3. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    A little off topic.. anyone wondering why a car needs two SD 820Am CPUs.

    .
    One for the removeable Blackberry 11 smartcar phone that comes with the car ;-)
    02-17-20 04:15 PM
  4. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    So now you’re attempting to resurrect the failed idea that partially the reason for QNX and it’s base for BB10 itself. Lucky for you, we already have the results of that business model for you.
    ....
    Simply put there’s no buy-in now just like 7-8 years ago or 12-13 years ago. Consumers aren’t interested sitting inside their four walls afraid to go outside from some kind of self-inflicted paranoias...
    Sure they are, just that the four walls are mobile (auto-mobile). Walking, biking, public transit too scary for many. (that or...no time to worry about the risks involved with walking biking...etc)
    02-17-20 04:22 PM
  5. DonHB's Avatar
    The other 99%.
    Can you give a few specific examples of what missing?
    02-18-20 04:19 AM
  6. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Can you give a few specific examples of what missing?
    What would be the point of explaining that to you again? You’ve ignored all of the information you’ve been given over the years on this topic, so what’s different this time?
    cwalt2166 likes this.
    02-18-20 06:30 AM
  7. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Can you give a few specific examples of what missing?
    How does one write everything that was forked over from QNX which took over two years and still wasn’t completed?

    “QNX Neutrino RTOS 6.5.0 is forked to produce BBX, as announced on October 18, 2011 (later actually previewed under name "BlackBerry 10 OS" on May 1, 2012).“
    02-18-20 06:52 AM
  8. app_Developer's Avatar
    Can you give a few specific examples of what missing?
    Where are you planning to pick up a modern, performant, energy efficient, native mobile web browser?
    02-18-20 07:00 AM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    One for the removeable Blackberry 11 smartcar phone that comes with the car ;-)
    A BlackBerry with an 820.... now this thread really has jumped the track.
    02-18-20 07:02 AM
  10. DonHB's Avatar
    In 2015, Apple apparently had 800 employees working on the camera alone. Lord knows how many they have now as they certainly haven’t backed off camera development since then.

    https://www.theverge.com/2015/12/20/...eam-800-people

    Of course, all modern smartphones don’t have to match what the iPhone cameras did in 2015 but you can’t put a garbage camera in a premium phone. The same goes for every other smartphone funcdtion that QNX doesn’t currently do to modern specs. There’s a good chance that your target customer’s kids will be taking photos with an iPhone so regular comparisons will be unavoidable.
    Cars have many cameras, but for video. It makes sense to include support for additional cameras many taxis and car service fleets have them installed.
    02-18-20 08:59 AM
  11. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Cars have many cameras, but for video. It makes sense to include support for additional cameras many taxis and car service fleets have them installed.
    Where does that fit?

    QNX doesn't have 800 employees working on camera designs and software.
    Most all the car cameras are exterior and not accessible by the users... what does it matter if its in a Taxi or the family's SUV? Most big service fleets install separate systems to monitor the interiors.

    The point is how much work goes into what is seen as a simple system... My guess is you'd need a small team of 20 developer with support people, and building.... so $5 million to get out a compatible firmware and camera app to match up with today's hardware.

    At best I think you are going to get 20K people interested in this whole project (if it were reasonably priced)... so the camera alone is going to cost each user $250 (cost).... with BlackBerry market-up on software, say $400.

    Camera's used in cars are very different from phones... no synergy there.

    Now I'm sure you'll say that millions might be interested in a BB10.4 .... and that might drive the cost for this one feature down to a reasonable amount. But still a lot more cost to be accounted for, and no real evidence that there are millions (TCL sure didn't see that).

    Again... BlackBerry knows the cost, and they have considered ever angle of monetizing BB10.
    02-18-20 09:41 AM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Where does that fit?

    QNX doesn't have 800 employees working on camera designs and software.
    Most all the car cameras are exterior and not accessible by the users... what does it matter if its in a Taxi or the family's SUV? Most big service fleets install separate systems to monitor the interiors.

    The point is how much work goes into what is seen as a simple system... My guess is you'd need a small team of 20 developer with support people, and building.... so $5 million to get out a compatible firmware and camera app to match up with today's hardware.

    At best I think you are going to get 20K people interested in this whole project (if it were reasonably priced)... so the camera alone is going to cost each user $250 (cost).... with BlackBerry market-up on software, say $400.

    Camera's used in cars are very different from phones... no synergy there.

    Now I'm sure you'll say that millions might be interested in a BB10.4 .... and that might drive the cost for this one feature down to a reasonable amount. But still a lot more cost to be accounted for, and no real evidence that there are millions (TCL sure didn't see that).

    Again... BlackBerry knows the cost, and they have considered ever angle of monetizing BB10.
    Well, maybe the rear camera in my wife's Lexus should be a selfie cam with fun filters!
    02-18-20 12:59 PM
  13. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    A BlackBerry with an 820.... now this thread really has jumped the track.
    Is that you RickyBobby? Shake'n Bake! Is Powerade coming up with Mystic Mountain BlackBerry?
    02-18-20 05:28 PM
  14. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Is that you RickyBobby? Shake'n Bake! Is Powerade coming up with Mystic Mountain BlackBerry?
    Omg can you imagine Ricky Bobby with a selfie cam in his car!
    02-18-20 06:11 PM
  15. DonHB's Avatar
    Did you ever figure out if QNX supports mixed mode use? (armv7 and 8 at same time)

    And where were you planning to pick up this modern web browser?
    I have not been able to find anything definitive. Because resource managers (aka drivers) run in user mode, it would make a lot of sense to put in the work to support 32-bit code on 64-bit QNX 7. This should help utilize code from BB10. Running 32-bit drivers on a 64-bit OS would be a feature that neither Windows nor Linux have and should be of use for QNX customers migrating from 32-bit.

    Browser internals should be updated using what ever source would be most compatible with existing code and UI.

    We can argue all day long about whether the LoE is 2000 engineers or 500 or 5. But anything more than 5 and you’re close to outnumbering the people who will actually pay a subscription to install a different OS on their Knox.

    For the record, to me this is an effort in the hundreds of engineers if you find truly qualified engineers who want to waste their time on this.

    I would work on the opposite problem: making sailfish or some other OS more efficient for certain workflows.
    What I don't understand is why so many people here think that the code for QNX is siloed between various platforms and can't be reused among those platforms.

    This should be thought of as a mixture of something beyond a beta program (release quality code) and a crowd sourcing project (without the stigma attached). The issue is how to fund this with the minimal upfront costs and having stakeholders actively help determine what features are added. This is to ensure developer investment would not be extraneous. Essentially, a Skunkworks project with customers as stakeholders. Also, if it gets to that point, product cycles would be longer than what the Duopoly has established. When BB10 was announced BlackBerry spoke about future plans which seemed to require changes or additions to QNX. These future features to be added were never realized due to BB10's EoL as well as the advantages to choosing QNX.
    02-19-20 04:36 AM
  16. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    I have not been able to find anything definitive. Because resource managers (aka drivers) run in user mode, it would make a lot of sense to put in the work to support 32-bit code on 64-bit QNX 7. This should help utilize code from BB10. Running 32-bit drivers on a 64-bit OS would be a feature that neither Windows nor Linux have and should be of use for QNX customers migrating from 32-bit.

    Browser internals should be updated using what ever source would be most compatible with existing code and UI.

    What I don't understand is why so many people here think that the code for QNX is siloed between various platforms and can't be reused among those platforms.

    This should be thought of as a mixture of something beyond a beta program (release quality code) and a crowd sourcing project (without the stigma attached). The issue is how to fund this with the minimal upfront costs and having stakeholders actively help determine what features are added. This is to ensure developer investment would not be extraneous. Essentially, a Skunkworks project with customers as stakeholders. Also, if it gets to that point, product cycles would be longer than what the Duopoly has established. When BB10 was announced BlackBerry spoke about future plans which seemed to require changes or additions to QNX. These future features to be added were never realized due to BB10's EoL as well as the advantages to choosing QNX.
    The same way that the English language is soloed between Hemingway's novels and the New York times. It's the same language at the base level, but at the implementation level it's completely different.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    02-19-20 06:14 AM
  17. DonHB's Avatar
    So, the interfaces to resource managers (AKA drivers) the QNX 7 presents to apps and system code do not have the same abstractions and APIs between platforms using QNX 7? Your saying the interface to an eSIM is different in a car vs a handset? The drivers for a car's SoC that is based on a handset SoC are a completely different implementation from the handset's drivers? I thought reason to base an SoC on another SoC is to reuse hardware and software implementations.
    02-19-20 08:30 AM
  18. DonHB's Avatar
    A BlackBerry with an 820.... now this thread really has jumped the track.
    No, the question is how much code from the 820 can be reused in a Knox s20 or an Knox A series handset.
    02-19-20 08:40 AM
  19. conite's Avatar
    So, the interfaces to resource managers (AKA drivers) the QNX 7 presents to apps and system code do not have the same abstractions and APIs between platforms using QNX 7? Your saying the interface to an eSIM is different in a car vs a handset? The drivers for a car's SoC that is based on a handset SoC are a completely different implementation from the handset's drivers? I thought reason to base an SoC on another SoC is to reuse hardware and software implementations.
    Just curious. How many times do you think you need to ask the same question until suddenly you get a different answer? I would say we're up to about 300 now.
    02-19-20 08:52 AM
  20. DonHB's Avatar
    Regarding apps is to be compatible with Amazon's App Store at first and to maintain compatibility with 32-bit apps in BlackBerry World. The goal is to maintain a shoestring budget which is why targeting an existing third party hardware root of trust handset (like Knox) is the goal.
    02-19-20 08:57 AM
  21. conite's Avatar
    Regarding apps is to be compatible with Amazon's App Store at first and to maintain compatibility with 32-bit apps in BlackBerry World. The goal is to maintain a shoestring budget which is why targeting an existing third party hardware root of trust handset (like Knox) is the goal.
    And we've been blowing up that dream for the last few years every time you ask. But it doesn't seem to matter in the least what anyone says. That's why I question why you keep asking.
    02-19-20 08:58 AM
  22. DonHB's Avatar
    For now, there are ways to stay private on mobile, and I encourage people who care about that to use them. It takes a little effort, but it's worth it to some of us.

    Z10 = BB10 + VKB > iOS + Android
    Could you start a thread to show us how?
    02-19-20 09:00 AM
  23. conite's Avatar
    Could you start a thread to show us how?
    Use tracker blockers, adjust your Google privacy settings to as low as they will go, use an alias account for your Google login, minimizer app exposure, use a Tor Browser, Etc.
    02-19-20 09:04 AM
  24. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Regarding apps is to be compatible with Amazon's App Store at first and to maintain compatibility with 32-bit apps in BlackBerry World. The goal is to maintain a shoestring budget which is why targeting an existing third party hardware root of trust handset (like Knox) is the goal.
    What shoestring budget.... I still see 100's of millions in development cost to get QNX from 4.8 to 7. Then I see 100's of million in development cost to upgrade BB10 to allow for a newer Android Runtime. And then I see 10's of millions to modify the latest available ART for use with BB10 - securing it. And I still think you have 10's of millions in modification to BB10 to work with newer hardware. But let's say you can do it all for the low, low price of $200 Million. How do you cover that cost with fewer than 1 Million prospective users? With profit that a $400 - 500 per user added on the cost of whatever hardware package you find....

    Shoestring... is existing BB10 with ART stripped out, that would run on some hardware package that can handle a 32Bit QNX 4.8 as it is. With upgrades to the browser and a few other basic standard for email updated. Maybe you could get that out for around for $25 million. Now with a million users that only a $50 add on.... but I think you cold only count of maybe 10K that would want an app-less BB10. No your at $2,500 per user.


    BlackBerry has run the numbers... there is a reason BBW has be locked down and BB10 is EOL. Nothing they looked at was viable.
    02-19-20 09:16 AM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Omg can you imagine Ricky Bobby with a selfie cam in his car!
    The only man in the world who could do selfies all day long, and never need the camera.
    02-19-20 10:19 AM
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