[anon(8163415)]

Yes. It was over by 2009.

It wasn't just denial. Even if they wanted to react, they had an outdated, end of life-cycle OS on their hands. Even if they had jumped right on it, they would have been behind the eight ball.

If BlackBerry launched BB10 in 2010, we would ALL be using BB10 today. And it would have been the dominating mobile OS.

But knowing BlackBerry and there utter garbage Marketing and Cheapness to spend on Advertising, Hmmm, you never know.

BB10 was and still is far ahead of Android and iOS. It will remain this way for a very long time.

[conite]

BB10 was and still is far ahead of Android and iOS. It will remain this way for a very long time.

I'm not sure what universe you live in.

[conite]

Regardless of what killed BB10 or not. BB10 features such as HUB, FLOW and it's overall interface makes Android and iOS look and feel obsolete. FACT.

Yes, I understand that that is your SUBJECTIVE viewpoint, and you're entitled to it.

[KPR1976]

For me BlackBerry 10 is the best mobile OS out there!

As you you mentioned in one of your posts it wasn't the OS but BlackBerry that dropped the ball.

As Conite mentioned they had an EOL BBOS in their hands when iPhone launched and faced a more than uphill battle, plus the Playbook launching as a half baked solution also hurt them extensively.

BB10 should have been in the works way before the iPhone was launched. Same thing happened to Palm. I had a Treo 650 and loved that OS but they failed to innovate and release the Cobalt OS and fell behind.

BlackBerry's heads were stuck and didn't innovate when they needed, they thought that 2G networks would not become obsolete.... they had to advance with wireless technology and realize that more bandwidth in the air meant that the handsets and OS to run them had to change dramatically.

They didn't want to see that the handset would become more than just a good communicator but a whole platform that put a computer like device running lots of processes and Apps and entertainment at the palm of your hand.

Apple disrupted the marketplace and forced everybody to follow. capitalized on the fact that a touchscreen could be your sole interface (+ that annoying button) and had all the Apps to support their innovation. Then came Android and enabled a similar experience with the convenience of Open Source and became the leading mobile OS as it is today.

BlackBerry on the other hand missed the boat completely and as hard as it is has payed dearly for it, becoming the favorite media target to bash at.

I am a BlackBerry guy and always will be (as long as devices still available).

Typing from my Priv..... beautiful phone, imperfect, but definitely a Blackberry

[conite]

If BlackBerry launched BB10 in 2010...

Launching in 2009/10 would have required BlackBerry to not just react to the iPhone, but to PREDICT it a couple of years before its release.

[KPR1976]

Conite, do you think that if BlackBerry launched BB10 say in 2008 and delivered a better execution on the Playbook and BB10, that could have enabled them to stay at least at a 3rd place in the Mobile landscape?

[Chuck Finley69]

Conite, do you think that if BlackBerry launched BB10 say in 2008 and delivered a better execution on the Playbook and BB10, that could have enabled them to stay at least at a 3rd place in the Mobile landscape?

Not to swoop in and take away from Conite. Here's my take....


Even back then, BB never had the capital or cash flow to engage in a battle with Google and/or Apple let alone Microsoft at time as well....all three companies have been in superior cash positions in all points of BB history.

[conite]

Conite, do you think that if BlackBerry launched BB10 say in 2008 and delivered a better execution on the Playbook and BB10, that could have enabled them to stay at least at a 3rd place in the Mobile landscape?

They would have had a good shot had they been ahead of the game.

But you can't play catch up with the likes of Google and Apple - they simply have too many resources.

But as I mentioned, BlackBerry was doomed the moment the iPhone came out (in hindsight). They were years away from delivering something competitive even if they had done everything right.

[KPR1976]

Thanks Chuck great point there

[KPR1976]

Conite you are 500% right

[stlabrat]

Op, here is your phone: http://www.trendingtopmost.com/worlds-popular-list-top-10/2017-2018-2019-2020-2021/product/most-expensive-phones-world-luxury-smartphones/%2Bbest+luxury+phone+2017&num=1&client=safari&rls= en&hl=en&prmd=ivns&strip=1&vwsrc=0]World's Top 10 Most Expensive Mobile Phones 2017, Smartphones List[/url]
if you got any of those 10 business plan and market study - targeted user demographic, race, age, salary, population, spending behaviour, taste, etc. etc. and most important, how many handset required to sell to break even (minimum qty at set price), and how many handset need to sell to achieve dominent in market (maximum qty at set price). with detail market planning. please send over to CB to share with us. About the top 10 for 2017, many are iphones (old iphones), appear to be the rich and famous of your friends not really interested spec reading, but more into the rose gold, diamond, leather, etc. For what ever dominent market of iphone in luxery market, i personally, must missed entry in their annual report for that sector. Just info for your consideration. IMHO.

[kvndoom]

Physical Keyboards is what caused the Demise of BlackBerry's Hardware Division.

By not releasing a high Spec'ed "ALL TOUCH" BB10 device, such as a Z30 replacement, the company dug themselves in a grave.

Sure there's a Small Physical Keyboard niche, but ignoring 99.9% of the all touch market was Foolish at best.

Passport? Phenomenal Device, unfortunately it want a ALL Touch, had it been and with proper Marketing, they would have sold 100x more over the keyboard version.

99.9% of the all touch market bought iPhones and Android phones, in case you missed all that. If anyone wanted BB10 it wouldn't have flopped at launch.

Marketing won't save a phone with no app ecosystem. Just ask Microsoft. Every single failed phone OS, every single one, has one thing in common: lack of availability of the apps that consumers want and need. Since you're so big on 'facts' (the word you keep using for your biased opinions), you should give that one some thought.

But why is this still being argued when the writing was on the wall in 2013?

[kvndoom]

hey does anyone have Noah Webster's email address? I need to let him know he needs to update the dictionary.

[conite]

hey does anyone have Noah Webster's email address? I need to let him know he needs to update the dictionary.

www.ISeeDeadPeople.com

[thurask]

But why is this still being argued when the writing was on the wall in 2013?

You can't see the writing on the wall if you bury your head in the sand.

[KPR1976]

99.9% of the all touch market bought iPhones and Android phones, in case you missed all that. If anyone wanted BB10 it wouldn't have flopped at launch.

Marketing won't save a phone with no app ecosystem. Just ask Microsoft. Every single failed phone OS, every single one, has one thing in common: lack of availability of the apps that consumers want and need. Since you're so big on 'facts' (the word you keep using for your biased opinions), you should give that one some thought.

But why is this still being argued when the writing was on the wall in 2013?

You nailed it, Apps are the factor and what makes a mobile OS relevant.

[anon(8163415)]

Apps are important. Fully Agree. But some categorize Apple as GOD. Lol,

I stand by my posts, BB10 is far superior in Gestures, Speed and Interface. Can BlackBerry bring this to its Android Phones? Probably not fully, because, for one Google won't allow it, and second, Android is too aged, too old, to handle such a thing. Lol

[stlabrat]

You nailed it, Apps are the factor and what makes a mobile OS relevant.

not any more... at least not in the near future (2 years).

[conite]

not any more... at least not in the near future (2 years).

They've been saying that for 5 years.

As the two ecosystems become even more entrenched, I see no reason this will ever happen. Developers only need two apps to cover 99.9% of the market.

[stlabrat]

Conite,
seriously, with 5G on the horizon and polymer like (not say it would be polymer, but something better with AI) in the making, you don't believe app is on its way out? past 5 years you don't have network capability to deliver dynamic instruction download... and with everybody try to milk the old fiber std and drag the heel for update (not the technology is not there), plus google try to eat the carrier lunch by googld fiber hub... created un-friendly environment for 5G... but the train is now out of station--- with cdma on its way out, google shut down fiber, carrier got more incentive to become dominent again... IMHO. it is going to happen this time... i believe. world will be a better place soon. (dream on... with absence of me this time... has that dream since 2000).

[conite]

Conite,
seriously, with 5G on the horizon and polymer like (not say it would be polymer, but something better with AI) in the making, you don't believe app is on its way out? past 5 years you don't have network capability to deliver dynamic instruction download... and with everybody try to milk the old fiber std and drag the heel for update (not the technology is not there), plus google try to eat the carrier lunch by googld fiber hub... created un-friendly environment for 5G... but the train is now out of station--- with cdma on its way out, google shut down fiber, carrier got more incentive to become dominent again... IMHO. it is going to happen this time... i believe. world will be a better place soon. (dream on... with absence of me this time... has that dream since 2000).

Problem is, developers don't need it, Google doesn't want it, and Apple doesn't want it. Who will drive it?

[KPR1976]

Problem is, developers don't need it, Google doesn't want it, and Apple doesn't want it. Who will drive it?

Good point Conite.
Google and Apple are the drivers and trend setters in the Mobile space.

Sent from my STV100-3 using CB Forums mobile app

[Jazuyo]

Blackberry had already failed to rebuild itself by allowing to bow down to Android. Instead of investing into marketing BB10, building BB flagship stores around the nation and world, and last but not least, commercial ads, ads, and ads. How do you expect people to buy your products if nobody knows about it or seen it?? The average person using smartphones thinks BB is out of business. Not too many people know about the BB10 phones nor even some of the new Android BB phones. Now that Android is so over saturated with so many phones on it with Samsung, HTC, LG, Moto, Sony, and the list goes on. Theirs nothing unique about Blackberry anymore because of their connection to Android now. The fact is that now Blackberry is just another phone with Android on it. The smartphone world is monopolized because of Android.

Don't get me wrong I understand the app importance in a OS and clearly BB was behind it. No developers wanted to create apps for BB which is why I understand why they went the Android route. But instead of BB going the Android route, they could've possibly worked out a monster deal of asking permission to buy the Google Android play store to keep the BB10 OS alive and still use the Google play store as a downloading app center place.

I love blackberry and all, but I'm going have to say goodbye to it and leave it. I will not support Blackberry again until I see support of their BB10 OS. Apple and Google have monopolized the smartphone world. But I have a feeling that HTML5 web based apps will defeat the app gap.

[conite]

Blackberry had already failed to rebuild itself by allowing to bow down to Android. Instead of investing into marketing BB10, building BB flagship stores around the nation and world, and last but not least, commercial ads, ads, and ads. How do you expect people to buy your products if nobody knows about it or seen it?? The average person using smartphones thinks BB is out of business. Not too many people know about the BB10 phones nor even some of the new Android BB phones. Now that Android is so over saturated with so many phones on it with Samsung, HTC, LG, Moto, Sony, and the list goes on. Theirs nothing unique about Blackberry anymore because of their connection to Android now. The fact is that now Blackberry is just another phone with Android on it. The smartphone world is monopolized because of Android.

Don't get me wrong I understand the app importance in a OS and clearly BB was behind it. No developers wanted to create apps for BB which is why I understand why they went the Android route. But instead of BB going the Android route, they could've possibly worked out a monster deal of asking permission to buy the Google Android play store to keep the BB10 OS alive and still use the Google play store as a downloading app center place.

I love blackberry and all, but I'm going have to say goodbye to it and leave it. I will not support Blackberry again until I see support of their BB10 OS. Apple and Google have monopolized the smartphone world. But I have a feeling that HTML5 web based apps will defeat the app gap.

These are all old, refuted arguments.

There would have been nothing in it for the OHA (which also includes other competitors - not just Google) to make an exception for BB10. Zero.

Since they were already many years late, had zero chance for Google Play Services and apps, and had 1/100th the resources of Apple and Google, it was hopeless.

HTML5 apps are a long dead dream, and reduces integration and performance - with no impetus to do it from developers, Google, or Apple.

[stlabrat]

Problem is, developers don't need it, Google doesn't want it, and Apple doesn't want it. Who will drive it?

(1) google like moon shot... got short attention span... (ADHD?)... network is long comitment... as for apple, who knows. swift, facing reg... those are preliminary testing of AI. I don't know what in the Tim's sleeve.
(2) you are short sighted - world is not just north america.. just look at who is the supply of the 5G. other gov got much better handle on collaboration... network is got most of the gain for the 5G implmentation... with NA net neutrality on the way out, may be there is a hope to invest in infrastructure before it is too late (mean behind the curve of leading tech). IMHO. let's wait and see. I don't have crystal ball... I am not sure if you have one (tell me what would be the landscape after 2 years in NA if you do).