[mrsimon]

As it's for armchair CEOs....

First, I'd look at what made BB popular and gained it a reputation and what consumers associate the brand with now.

To be honest, the only way to differentiate the brand from the mass of other identical phones, is not to try and compete in that mass market. BB would be just another android without or without a PKB.

The target for me is the premium segment; the Rolex of the phone market. If BB now has some money to invest and wants to go for broke, this is what I'd do:

1) create an Android phone with BB functionality with a contract company like TCL or a more reputable company! (BB own hardware is a dead end I understand). that oozes QUALITY and is QUALITY and really is PREMIUM. I'm talking S8 specs. The KEYone and Priv are going in the right direction but lack the specs and quality and reliability and ...

2) Arm it with a PKB slider that is really slick and thus would appeal to both PKB and touch KB people. Again TOP QUALITY PKB and slick action. A Priv style phone but with the above premium quality.

3) Make it the top security phone in the world without compromises or competition. Full BB security specs . And in that package include BB AND all the Android compatible apps, and make sure they all work great.

4) Aim it exclusively at the Premium end of the market at a Premium price and above all make it irresistible for companies. Almost a no-brainer phone where not buying it would reveal negligence!!

5) Spend a lot on marketing it with this new image. Make it unmistakably Blackberry. Design is everything. Make it black and beautiful to see and gorgeous to caress and touch. Is your mouth watering already?
Forget the mass market Dtechs and the nearly good Priv and Keyone. Time to move on.

6) Get VIP prescriptors and influencers to use it and show that it's cool to own a Blackberry in the way it is to have an Apple product.

Honestly, this is the best shot, maybe it's too late? but it would win back a lot of BB fans and win over a lot of Sammy and Apple people too, like me.

Mr Chen, think seriously about this.

What do you Cracks think?

[John Vieira]

See, here is the problem. The "premium" market, just buys iphone. Nothing else. They're not interested in anything else, and no amount of features or style could interest them in anything else.

Secondly, for BlackBerry or one of its partners to build an S8 style phone, they'd have to charge $2000 for it. No one will be interested at that price point.

Furthermore, there is a cross section of design between having a pkb and not having one. You simply can't add a PKB to an S8 and still have it look good. Of course assuming that everyone even likes the look of the S8.

The PRIV was a very nice device. It was slick looking with its curbed screen. It had high end specs, a pkb, and a slide out keyboard... and no one bought it.

Your model is there, and it failed.

[BB_PP]

As it's for armchair CEOs....

First, I'd look at what made BB popular and gained it a reputation and what consumers associate the brand with now.

To be honest, the only way to differentiate the brand from the mass of other identical phones, is not to try and compete in that mass market. BB would be just another android without or without a PKB.

The target for me is the premium segment; the Rolex of the phone market. If BB now has some money to invest and wants to go for broke, this is what I'd do:

1) create an Android phone with BB functionality with a contract company like TCL or a more reputable company! (BB own hardware is a dead end I understand). that oozes QUALITY and is QUALITY and really is PREMIUM. I'm talking S8 specs. The KEYone and Priv are going in the right direction but lack the specs and quality and reliability and ...

2) Arm it with a PKB slider that is really slick and thus would appeal to both PKB and touch KB people. Again TOP QUALITY PKB and slick action. A Priv style phone but with the above premium quality.

3) Make it the top security phone in the world without compromises or competition. Full BB security specs . And in that package include BB AND all the Android compatible apps, and make sure they all work great.

4) Aim it exclusively at the Premium end of the market at a Premium price and above all make it irresistible for companies. Almost a no-brainer phone where not buying it would reveal negligence!!

5) Spend a lot on marketing it with this new image. Make it unmistakably Blackberry. Design is everything. Make it black and beautiful to see and gorgeous to caress and touch. Is your mouth watering already?
Forget the mass market Dtechs and the nearly good Priv and Keyone. Time to move on.

6) Get VIP prescriptors and influencers to use it and show that it's cool to own a Blackberry in the way it is to have an Apple product.

Honestly, this is the best shot, maybe it's too late? but it would win back a lot of BB fans and win over a lot of Sammy and Apple people too, like me.

Mr Chen, think seriously about this.

What do you Cracks think?

Blackberry is doing well, just entered in Android world with Priv and make a significant difference with keyone! Give BlackBerry more time and world will see S8 specs in BlackBerry Android

[aiharkness]

BlackBerry doesn't need to be rebuilt. That's already done. Chen did it. And it doesn't involve BlackBerry designing, building, selling, and supporting smartphones. That's in the past.*

Moreover, whatever comes to pass with BlackBerry brand Android devices, that heavily depends on the "partners". It the partners can't do well with BlackBerry's Android system, then that will be the final end to "BlackBerry" smartphones.

*It's in the past until it isn't. Could BlackBerry decide to make an exception for devices running it's own OS? Could BlackBerry decide to bring the Android smartphone business totally back in house if the "partners" fail? Anything is possible. But I don't see this as probable.

[app_Developer]

So years ago we used to debate here the importance of ASP when BB still had a phone business. Apologists said sales volume is still good, don't worry about ASP! Why are haters and "anal"-ysts always obsessing about ASP?

Well, the reality is BB kept sales volume up for a while by selling a lot of very cheap Curves in a lot of countries where they became known as a budget phone choice.

It's virtually impossible, having gone to the bottom of the market for years, to then turn around and go to the very top end of the market. BlackBerry doesn't have the brand value you need to succeed there.

[Troy Tiscareno]

There's also the issue that you can't just buy the latest top-of-the-line SoCs just because you want them. Generally, 100% of the projected output is spoken for by the top players in the market, who can buy in large volumes and have a long history of doing so. If you're not Samsung, LG, HTC, Moto, or Sony, you wait in line or take last year's hardware.

Qualcomm isn't going to put off Sony who wants 5M 835s for TCL who wants 50k of them.

And BB simply doesn't have the brand image to support a high-end offering except at a discount price. They crashed their brand value over a decade-long period, and people aren't going to forget that overnight.

John Vieira is absolutely right: the wealthy, status-seeking people buy iPhone almost exclusively. Those are the people I work for every day, and the vast majority have Apple everything. Apple is viewed as a winner, and a leader, and a taste-maker - all of the things they want to be associated with - and BB is viewed as the exact opposite of those things. You can't build a premium brand that way.

[KPR1976]

I agree with your post Troy. We have to first understand and digest that hardware is gone and BB10 is over.

Brand image for BlackBerry is gone as well and will take time for that one to be fixed. Past management's arrogance and lack of vision destroyed the company IMHO.

Today's management is working hard to do whatever possible with the valued assets they have which are QNX and all the companies they bought. Original post talks about armchair CEO's ..... just think about this.... If current CEO was not doing his job, he wouldn't have been re-elected as Chairman & CEO

Let's support TCL and hope that devices sell well so that we can still have BlackBerry phones.

We won't be able to fix BlackBerry or change it. Let's leave that for them to fix and change for the better.

[mrsimon]

Differentiate or die. You guys have more insider info than me as I've been away from BB for 4 years . When I got the phone around 2010 I felt like some sort of yuppy. It was a estatus symbol. How the mighty fall. So. Status can be brought back but you d need an awesome campaign combined with millions of dollars and a genious mind behind it. Guess i was being over enthusiastic and quixotic.
Option 2:
They either make the most competitive price quality phones and gain a reputation or this really is the end of the brand. The last flick of the tail b4 it goes down. So far they don't seem to be doing this.
TCL aren't all TLC and charity. If keyone doesnt sell they ll pull the plug for sure whatever they say now.

[KPR1976]

mrsimon, Differentiation will take a lot of branding reconstruction and a huge marketing campaign aimed at bringing back the success image of BlackBerry and what having a BlackBerry product (phone, tablet, messenger) means.

It can be done but will take time to reverse the damage and a lot off support from customers and carriers

Sent from my STV100-3 using CB Forums mobile app

[mrsimon]

That's what I'm saying

[donnation]

Do you think BB really cares at this point if they are in the smartphone game? I don't.

[app_Developer]

Can anyone think of a brand that went to the bargain discounted end of a market and then managed to make it all the way back to the top luxury end?

I can't think of any.

[donnation]

Can anyone think of a brand that went to the bargain discounted end of a market and then managed to make it all the way back to the top luxury end?

I can't think of any.

Not one that has repeatedly said they don't want to be in said market anymore and then got out of it, which is what BlackBerry has done.

[mrsimon]

To be honest the more I think about it the more obvious it is: all that remains of true Blackberry smartphones is security updates to a couple of licenced Android phones.
What keeps the name alive is brand loyalty, because without that I doubt whether TCL or any other company would have bothered putting Blackberry on the device.
And if you don't bother with BB you won't bother with a PKB will you.

And Crackberry is destined to be a legacy site for brand loyals like the Rover car forum I'm on.
And while you can keep classic vehicles going by hook or by crook, advances in technology mean that you 'll only be able to make calls on your Blackberry legacy device, a bit like eccentrics who keep 1980s brick phones going!

It's a sad demise.

[KPR1976]

Will BlackBerry do it? I don't think so .... unless the software makes them enough money to allocate resources and embark on the riskiest and most uphill battle.

Big problem is that they have 10 years of BlackBerry brand bad Rep in front of them..... impossible? No but as I say don't think they will do it

[anon(8163415)]

See, here is the problem. The "premium" market, just buys iphone. Nothing else. They're not interested in anything else, and no amount of features or style could interest them in anything else.

Secondly, for BlackBerry or one of its partners to build an S8 style phone, they'd have to charge $2000 for it. No one will be interested at that price point.

Furthermore, there is a cross section of design between having a pkb and not having one. You simply can't add a PKB to an S8 and still have it look good. Of course assuming that everyone even likes the look of the S8.

The PRIV was a very nice device. It was slick looking with its curbed screen. It had high end specs, a pkb, and a slide out keyboard... and no one bought it.

Your model is there, and it failed.

The PRIV didn't sell well because it was Over Priced.
Plain and Simple.

[anon(8163415)]

I agree with your post Troy. We have to first understand and digest that hardware is gone and BB10 is over.

Brand image for BlackBerry is gone as well and will take time for that one to be fixed. Past management's arrogance and lack of vision destroyed the company IMHO.

Today's management is working hard to do whatever possible with the valued assets they have which are QNX and all the companies they bought. Original post talks about armchair CEO's ..... just think about this.... If current CEO was not doing his job, he wouldn't have been re-elected as Chairman & CEO

Let's support TCL and hope that devices sell well so that we can still have BlackBerry phones.

We won't be able to fix BlackBerry or change it. Let's leave that for them to fix and change for the better.

BB10 is not over. BB10 features are the only thing that will Differentiate BBRY ANDROID from other Android OS based devices. Without BB10 features integrated into BBRY Android phones, BlackBerry Phones will end up as BORING, Un-Intuitive & Battery Hogging as the so called "Android OS".

This ain't an opinion, its a basic Fact.

[conite]

BB10 is not over. BB10 features are the only thing that will Differentiate BBRY ANDROID from other Android OS based devices. Without BB10 features integrated into BBRY Android phones, BlackBerry Phones will end up as BORING, Un-Intuitive & Battery Hogging as the so called "Android OS".

This ain't an opinion, its a basic Fact.

Which one is the "fact" ?

1- BB10 is not over.

2- BB10 features on BlackBerry Android are the ONLY differentiating features.

3- Android is BORING, Un-Intuitive & Battery Hogging.

[kvndoom]

BB10 is not over. BB10 features are the only thing that will Differentiate BBRY ANDROID from other Android OS based devices. Without BB10 features integrated into BBRY Android phones, BlackBerry Phones will end up as BORING, Un-Intuitive & Battery Hogging as the so called "Android OS".

This ain't an opinion, its a basic Fact.

The *only* thing eh? Dang, I didn't realize how many keyboard-equipped Android phones were out there!

[KPR1976]

Which one is the "fact" ?

1- BB10 is not over.

2- BB10 features on Android are the ONLY differentiating features.

3- Android is BORING, Un-Intuitive & Battery Hogging

Thanks Conite!

As hard as it is we won't see BB10 as a whole OS anymore.

I would like to be wrong.

On the same subject. BlackBerry's differentiation goes way beyond BB10 features on Android, Physical Keyboard and Battery Life.

We can complain and analyze, elaborate theories and keep debating for years. We got to smell the coffee and wake up!

Blackberry fell from the top and is not associated to its former success but constantly remembered for their failure to adapt.

That takes a lot of money and time and marketing to fix

[anon(8163415)]

The *only* thing eh? Dang, I didn't realize how many keyboard-equipped Android phones were out there!

Physical Keyboards is what caused the Demise of BlackBerry's Hardware Division.

By not releasing a high Spec'ed "ALL TOUCH" BB10 device, such as a Z30 replacement, the company dug themselves in a grave.

Sure there's a Small Physical Keyboard niche, but ignoring 99.9% of the all touch market was Foolish at best.

Passport? Phenomenal Device, unfortunately it want a ALL Touch, had it been and with proper Marketing, they would have sold 100x more over the keyboard version.

[conite]

Physical Keyboards is what caused the Demise of BlackBerry's Hardware Division.

By not releasing a high Spec'ed "ALL TOUCH" BB10 device, such as a Z30 replacement, the company dug themselves in a grave.

Sure there's a Small Physical Keyboard niche, but ignoring 99.9% of the all touch market was Foolish at best.

Passport? Phenomenal Device, unfortunately it want a ALL Touch, had it been and with proper Marketing, they would have sold 100x more over the keyboard version.

BB10 was doomed before it launched.

Bringing BB10 features to Android is the last thing they'd want to do.

[KPR1976]

I believe my friend that the state of denial when iPhone launched and the lack of responsiveness from BlackBerry to both iPhone and Android paved the way for the failure of BB10.

Apps unfortunately are the ones that drive the success and relevance of an OS. I tried to keep using BB10 and work around the App Gap and couldn't do it.

Blackberry could have released a monster of a phone with 8 core processor, 16GB of Ram, 500GB of internal storage with BB10 on it and the results would have been the same as we see today.

As great as BB10 is and I love that OS and miss it by the day.... very few developers and App houses wanted to make Apps for it.

Look at the Windows Phone, Windows 10 mobile example. Microsoft hasn't been able to make Windows Phone take off..... there are very few Apps for that platform.

I want BlackBerry to succeed, but the path to recovery is theirs to pave.... not ours

[conite]

I believe my friend that the state of denial when iPhone launched and the lack of responsiveness from BlackBerry to both iPhone and Android paved the way for the failure of BB10.

Yes. It was over by 2009.

It wasn't just denial. Even if they wanted to react, they had an outdated, end of life-cycle OS on their hands. Even if they had jumped right on it, they would have been behind the eight ball.

[anon(8163415)]

BB10 was doomed before it launched.

Bringing BB10 features to Android is the last thing they'd want to do.

Regardless of what killed BB10 or not. BB10 features such as HUB, FLOW and it's overall interface makes Android and iOS look and feel obsolete. FACT.

BB10 features on Android will differentiate it and help modernize the OS.

Don't be confused with regards to BB10 and it's features. BB10 was not the reason why it failed as an OS, BlackBerry themselves are to blame.