[conite]

Soooooo.......does that mean they'd consider selling it for $18? (lol) No need to answer. I'm sure it's a no. But interesting all the same.

Selling what? BB10? What does that even mean? How could they sell that without compromising their QNX code?

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Okay, now there's a limit to the analogy :-).
If somebody stole the QNX and bb10 source code and all the toolsets, and they vanished, then yeah THAT would be a hurricane...though with insurance you don't throw in the towel after a hurricane. This endeavour however is merely a blizzard or snowstorm, got to plough through it, maybe got to thaw a few frozen pipes, throw in a new furnace, airconditioner, new appliances and then in the spring, maybe some hardwood flooring here and there, repave the driveway (optional), a little landscaping (optional), and jib the plumbing a bit. The land value is still there, the neighbourhood is good, and structurally she's solid.

You would be surprised how many people have thrown in the towel....

There is a huge housing shortage right now... but then there is also a huge sell off going on as people are moving out.

Our local mall... is not reopening. Number of national chain restaurants and retailers have not even attempted to repair their business. School attendance is down 30%... talking about shutting down four whole schools here.

Same for BlackBerry... their tried to make a go with BB10, it failed and it was not viable. Reality is the cost of development far exceeds any interest in it.

Difference is eventually things will get better for Panama City... as there are reasons for it to be rebuilt. Sadly the reason some here can't let go of BB10, aren't shared by enough people to make it viable. Chen knew that five years ago....

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

You would be surprised how many people have thrown in the towel....

There is a huge housing shortage right now... but then there is also a huge sell off going on as people are moving out.

Our local mall... is not reopening. Number of national chain restaurants and retailers have not even attempted to repair their business. School attendance is down 30%... talking about shutting down four whole schools here.

Same for BlackBerry... their tried to make a go with BB10, it failed and it was not viable. Reality is the cost of development far exceeds any interest in it.

Difference is eventually things will get better for Panama City... as there are reasons for it to be rebuilt. Sadly the reason some here can't let go of BB10, aren't shared by enough people to make it viable. Chen knew that five years ago....

Sorry to hear about Panama City...yeah the malls and restaurants won't open until infastructure is rebuilt and housing issues resolved, obviously those people are more focused on personal security and privacy right now, than discretionary shopping, out of necessity from the natural disaster.

Don't dispute the need to stop producing bb10 back when, because no one backstopped it, or the current owners got the jitters and didn't get others involved to revive it.

It clearly should be revived, yes I know there is no one that we know who is willing to re-inject and investment to acheive this at this time. But security and privacy will be a screaming issue once 5g sensors and IOT continue to grow the irritant factor for citizens. Android doesn't really care about your privacy when you want it, and neither does Apple.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

Selling what? BB10? What does that even mean? How could they sell that without compromising their QNX code?

It means people appreciate the design of BB10 - it has value. It means those who know, like the nature of the underlying design that the RTOS QNX provides to make it more securable.

Its funny/sad/ironic how your car's crash-test-dummies may in the future be more protected, than the person driving it. Given the BB in the Car, and no BB in a real person's smartphone.

[Chuck Finley69]

It means people appreciate the design of BB10 - it has value. It means those who know, like the nature of the underlying design that the RTOS QNX provides to make it more securable.

Its funny/sad/ironic how your car's crash-test-dummies may in the future be more protected, than the person driving it. Given the BB in the Car, and no BB in a real person's smartphone.

Ironically, seems that BB would be the company that uses its expertise to make the auto safe for people using Android/IOS car systems among others, but isn’t able to have Android/IOS on board with phones the same way.

It may really not be diametrically opposed. Could be that cars will happen first and phones and other mobile hardware happen later with BB just part of the equation.

To be successful, BB doesn’t have to be the OS, just part of the OS used.

[conite]

It means people appreciate the design of BB10 - it has value. It means those who know, like the nature of the underlying design that the RTOS QNX provides to make it more securable.

Its funny/sad/ironic how your car's crash-test-dummies may in the future be more protected, than the person driving it. Given the BB in the Car, and no BB in a real person's smartphone.

None of this answers my question. How do you sell BB10 without compromising some QNX code that BlackBerry relies on for other facets of its business?

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

None of this answers my question. How do you sell BB10 without compromising some QNX code that BlackBerry relies on for other facets of its business?

It's a good question. I don't have an answer. Depends on how it "key security features" are embedded into the software code. Can it be stripped out? Don't know. Might be easy, might be hard.

Hypothetically leave a stripped of security features version of bb10 for others, as a private or open-source or combination effort, to experiment with implementing on modern 64bit soc. Then once that looks good bring it back to Blackberry to re-integrate, if a phone could come out of it by them or others. (Not that I have those particular technical skills). I would imagine that the Graphical User interface, and most functionality isn't intertwined (in a knotted matted hair fashion) with the secret security sauce.

[conite]

It's a good question. I don't have an answer. Depends on how it "key security features" are embedded into the software code. Can it be stripped out? Don't know. Might be easy, might be hard.

Hypothetically leave a stripped of security features version of bb10 for others, as a private or open-source or combination effort, to experiment with implementing on modern 64bit soc. Then once that looks good bring it back to Blackberry to re-integrate, if a phone could come out of it by them or others. (Not that I have those particular technical skills). I would imagine that the Graphical User interface, and most functionality isn't intertwined (in a knotted matted hair fashion) with the secret security sauce.

The QNX core component is not about security - it's the foundation upon which BB10 is built. The secure nature of the microkernel is a byproduct.

Tearing one away form the other is a meaningless statement.

[i_plod_an_dr_void]

The QNX core component is not about security - it's the foundation upon which BB10 is built. The secure nature of the microkernel is a byproduct.

Tearing one away form the other is a meaningless statement.

Agreed QNX is the OS that BB10 is compiled on. Unless there are "secret api's" in BB10 that revealing would undermine QNX, I don't see the problem. Aren't those api's available to native app developers? Of course maybe bb10 source itself on the whole is the secret that BlackBerry doesn't want anyone to have source access. NDA's as employees would be required to do? Trusted access? Virtual Security White rooms? Hmmm how would you recompile it to 64 bit and debug without source? That would be beyond my pay grade. I guess you could leave much of it in 32bit binary and work around that bit? Are the device drivers themselves the secret? or how they are implemented? I wouldn't think so. I imagine bb10 itself might need a few tweeks. All speculation on my part though.
I assumed the on chip bit and integrity testing at boot wouldn't be needed for experimental programming/investigations. But if you decide the whole ball of wax can't be disassembled with some parts redacted so to speak in that manner because it might expose something to the detriment of other BlackBerry initiatives, then that would be the sticky bit. But its dead soon anyways right? or does it live on in a different (non-smartphone) area of the business?

I guess the problem is, how would you let others take a look without stealing, or hacking or other nefarious purposes? That is the blackberry dilemma about allowing bb10 to continue if they can't fund it.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Agreed QNX is the OS that BB10 is compiled on. Unless there are "secret api's" in BB10 that revealing would undermine QNX, I don't see the problem. Aren't those api's available to native app developers? Of course maybe bb10 source itself on the whole is the secret that BlackBerry doesn't want anyone to have source access. NDA's as employees would be required to do? Trusted access? Virtual Security White rooms? Hmmm how would you recompile it to 64 bit and debug without source? That would be beyond my pay grade. I guess you could leave much of it in 32bit binary and work around that bit? Are the device drivers themselves the secret? or how they are implemented? I wouldn't think so. I imagine bb10 itself might need a few tweeks. All speculation on my part though.
I assumed the on chip bit and integrity testing at boot wouldn't be needed for experimental programming/investigations. But if you decide the whole ball of wax can't be disassembled with some parts redacted so to speak in that manner because it might expose something to the detriment of other BlackBerry initiatives, then that would be the sticky bit. But its dead soon anyways right? or does it live on in a different (non-smartphone) area of the business?

I guess the problem is, how would you let others take a look without stealing, or hacking or other nefarious purposes? That is the blackberry dilemma about allowing bb10 to continue if they can't fund it.

There is no dilemma... no one wanted to license it, and it's not a viable product.

Live on... sure. In other BlackBerry products and BlackBerry Secure and the BlackBerry App Suite. Might be bits of code in Radar or now in Automotive Systems.

Any problem you have in not accepting that BB10 is "over", is only your problem... not BlackBerry's.

[bb10adopter111]

Any problem you have in not accepting that BB10 is "over", is only your problem... not BlackBerry's.

I have no problem accepting the fact that BB10 is "over," but I have a definite problem with the fact itself. The end of BB10 is the end of a business-focused mobile OS optimized for private, secure, formal written communications.

All the new devices are "universal" platforms optimized for making money from consumers, primarily through marketing and transaction fees. The friction between how they are designed and how I wish to use them is too much to make them useful for anything but occasional and emergency use for me.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

I have no problem accepting the fact that BB10 is "over," but I have a definite problem with the fact itself. The end of BB10 is the end of a business-focused mobile OS optimized for private, secure, formal written communications.

All the new devices are "universal" platforms optimized for making money from consumers, primarily through marketing and transaction fees. The friction between how they are designed and how I wish to use them is too much to make them useful for anything but occasional and emergency use for me.

Posted with my trusty Z10

I wish it was so too... but that changes nothing.

[bb10adopter111]

I wish it was so too... but that changes nothing.

It changes how I work and spend my money. And it costs many of my enterprise customers time and money securing untrustable communucations, and paying for productivity lost to mobile inefficiency and distractions.

What we've seen since 2009 is largely digital disruption and displacement with no net gains in overall productivity or in people's standard of living. This is in contrast to the first digital revolution from 1995-2005 when productivity and middle class incomes rose substantially.

Posted with my trusty Z10

[WiseEyes]

BB10 is sure to transform & to spark many innovations. Just when the pundits thought that BlackBerry had closed its doors on its own smartphone OS, the company rebuilds the industry in an exoskeleton OS to natively complement its UEM -- an ultracloud that VPNs, connects, secures, firewalls, provides antivirus options, & protects privacy. All of this & more from the same technology that BlackBerry uses to run nuclear plants -- potentially improving any device/appliance/vehicle near you! B)

Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

BB10 is sure to transform & to spark many innovations. Just when the pundits thought that BlackBerry had closed its doors on its own smartphone OS, the company rebuilds the industry in an exoskeleton OS to natively complement its UEM -- an ultracloud that VPNs, connects, secures, firewalls, provides antivirus options, & protects privacy. All of this & more from the same technology that BlackBerry uses to run nuclear plants -- potentially improving any device/appliance/vehicle near you! B)

Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!

BB10 didn't have all that stuff in it... so not sure how it would inspire all those technologies.

[drobbie]

BB10 is sure to transform & to spark many innovations. Just when the pundits thought that BlackBerry had closed its doors on its own smartphone OS, the company rebuilds the industry in an exoskeleton OS to natively complement its UEM -- an ultracloud that VPNs, connects, secures, firewalls, provides antivirus options, & protects privacy. All of this & more from the same technology that BlackBerry uses to run nuclear plants -- potentially improving any device/appliance/vehicle near you! B)

Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!

The possibilities are there. Not sure if JC sees it.
Upgrade BB10 and add support for Python. Never mind the app gap.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

The possibilities are there. Not sure if JC sees it.
Upgrade BB10 and add support for Python. Never mind the app gap.

Chen... He is a businessman, you show him how you invest into BB10 and earn a profit.

I suspect he and anyone that might have even considered licensing BB10 (if anyone did)... knows more about the development cost and earning potentials than any of us do.

[glwerry]

The possibilities are there. Not sure if JC sees it.
Upgrade BB10 and add support for Python. Never mind the app gap.

To accomplish WHAT?

If you're thinking that people will rush out and buy something like that so that they can develop apps, you may be mistaken.

I write software for a living. My phone, however, is a TOOL.
I need Google Hangouts, email, text and banking apps. If those are not there "out of the box" then I am NOT buying the phone.

I doubt that I'm alone, either.

My wife, for instance, is not buying something unless it has FaceBook.

You can't write those things yourself, even in Python. You need access to the APIs.

[drobbie]

To accomplish WHAT?

If you're thinking that people will rush out and buy something like that so that they can develop apps, you may be mistaken.

I write software for a living. My phone, however, is a TOOL.
I need Google Hangouts, email, text and banking apps. If those are not there "out of the box" then I am NOT buying the phone.

I doubt that I'm alone, either.

My wife, for instance, is not buying something unless it has FaceBook.

You can't write those things yourself, even in Python. You need access to the APIs.

You and your wife may need hangouts and all those other apps but not everyone does.

I need calendar, contacts, phone app and a great browser as core features is all required

[Chuck Finley69]

You and your wife may need hangouts and all those other apps but not everyone does.

I need calendar, contacts, phone app and a great browser as core features is all required

I don’t need those apps for personal use but my contracts with some Fortune 1000 companies do require many apps including Facebook, Messenger and Hangouts for team collaboration.

[conite]

I need calendar, contacts, phone app and a great browser as core features is all required

We don't need another platform for that.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

We don't need another platform for that.

KaiOS... is sorta a new platform. Seems to have really taken off.

But it was built on the same foundation as Android, so it wasn't reinventing the wheel and doesn't have the some developmental cost as BB10 did (built on an already completed OS).

[conite]

KaiOS... is sorta a new platform. Seems to have really taken off.

But it was built on the same foundation as Android, so it wasn't reinventing the wheel and doesn't have the some developmental cost as BB10 did (built on an already completed OS).

Yes. It's the continuation of Firefox OS.

[Zidentia]

You and your wife may need hangouts and all those other apps but not everyone does.

I need calendar, contacts, phone app and a great browser as core features is all required

I prefer my Z10 and use it for most communication but I double carry a Samsung which I hate but have to per my contracts.

Posted via CB10

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Yes. It's the continuation of Firefox OS.

But where Firefox (or half dozen others) never got off the ground, KaiOS is soaring.... six months (1 year anniversary) ago they had 40 million users. BlackBerry only dreamed about going from zero to 40 million users in a years time.

When Sailfish and Tizen tried to pickup part of the India market with more basic low cost smartphones... they failed. Some taught because they didn't all have the apps. But neither does KaiOS... Maybe it's a matter of timing? Having the right partners (like Google)? Maybe it was staying away from traditional slab designs? Maybe it's the price - Indonesian WizPhone... is $7 USD (expect it's Google subsidized) and will be sold in vending machines across Alfamart's 10,000 store network.