1. WiseEyes's Avatar
    I can agree with all that you just said with the exception of the last line. Of course, with improved manufacturing methods, lower prices could also be possible.

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    02-18-19 02:04 PM
  2. conite's Avatar
    I can agree with all that you just said with the exception of the last line. Of course, with improved manufacturing methods, lower prices could also be possible.

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    But BB10 can't work on modern hardware, and it would take a monumental investment to allow it to run on current devices. The barrier to entry is immense and fiscally insurmountable.
    02-18-19 03:03 PM
  3. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    I can agree with all that you just said with the exception of the last line. Of course, with improved manufacturing methods, lower prices could also be possible.

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    If you mean more volume would reduce component cost... that's true, by a few dollars at best. You look at the "cost" to build a $1000 iPhone, and only a small part is the components and manufacturing. For TCL there are other factors to add on like:

    • BlackBerry Branding (licencing)
    • Global Sales under BBMo
    • Global Warranties and Support
    • BlackBerry Secure Software
    • Regular Software Updates (almost think these are a separate cost to the licensee, in addition to their own internal infrastructure)
    • Higher Profits for TCL to even bother (remember they were doing this for Enterprise Sales which are normally lucrative)



    After four devices, it's pretty clear that the "BlackBerry Cost" is what it is... hoping it going to improve is like hoping BB10 returns.

    Clearly with the JIO Phone 2 being sold for $50... you can make a "cheap" PKB phone. But there is no secure software, few if any updates and who knows how long those phone last.
    WiseEyes likes this.
    02-18-19 04:00 PM
  4. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    What is an MIT (assuming Massachusetts institute of tech) license MP3 and where can I find one to try to download? Is that your one issue? Very specific need. But I guess if it is one and if it doesn’t work then you chose what works for you.
    The MIT license is like a Creative Commons license, but is designed to support future development and extension of the original work:

    http://www.opensource.org/licenses/MIT

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    02-18-19 04:17 PM
  5. grover5's Avatar
    The MIT license is like a Creative Commons license, but is designed to support future development and extension of the original work:

    http://www.opensource.org/licenses/MIT

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Very cool. Thanks for the information.
    WiseEyes likes this.
    02-18-19 05:44 PM
  6. WiseEyes's Avatar
    But BB10 can't work on modern hardware, and it would take a monumental investment to allow it to run on current devices. The barrier to entry is immense and fiscally insurmountable.
    (Laughing) "Can't work on modern hardware?"(Laughing)

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    i_plod_an_dr_void likes this.
    02-18-19 06:16 PM
  7. joeldf's Avatar
    (Laughing) "Can't work on modern hardware?"(Laughing)

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    Why is that funny?

    BB10 doesn't have SOC drivers for anything newer than the Snapdragon 801 that the Passport ran. That's the end of the cpu road.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-18-19 07:10 PM
  8. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Why is that funny?

    BB10 doesn't have SOC drivers for anything newer than the Snapdragon 801 that the Passport ran. That's the end of the cpu road.
    This has been covered ad nauseum. I don't know why people cannot accept this.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-18-19 07:37 PM
  9. conite's Avatar
    (Laughing) "Can't work on modern hardware?"(Laughing)

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    No it can't. It's a 32-bit platform. It would have to be redeveloped from the ground up for new architecture.

    And, as mentioned, no drivers exist for any hardware components built after 2014.
    Laura Knotek and ppeters914 like this.
    02-18-19 07:57 PM
  10. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    (Laughing) "Can't work on modern hardware?"(Laughing)

    Posted via CB10 with Z10 swagger!
    I’m not an IT guy, but even I know that BB10 has no unique hardware components left remaining. BB spent three or more years burning through BB10 parts commitments.

    At this point, BB10 is basically “orphaned”, “stranded” from new hardware availability.. An OEM couldn’t build any new BB10 hardware, even if such a company wanted to without enormous startup costs.

    From a business perspective, any company that develops OS now or in the past, could develop new type mobile OS in place of BB10 or any other failed previous OS from distant past. There’s no longer competitive advantage to already developed BB10 at this point.
    02-18-19 10:51 PM
  11. Bbnivende's Avatar
    Consumers are not particularly interested in operating systems. BB might have made it had just copied the Apple start up page and home screen . The playbook OS was fine as well.
    02-19-19 01:52 PM
  12. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Consumers are not particularly interested in operating systems. BB might have made it had just copied the Apple start up page and home screen . The playbook OS was fine as well.
    Consumers just want things to work, like they work for everyone else.

    It wasn't the start up page or home screen that was an issue.... it was the lack of CandyCrush and Instagram (along with the bugs in early BB10).... that pushed consumers away.

    PlayBook.... so many lessons.
    Laura Knotek likes this.
    02-19-19 02:05 PM
  13. bb10adopter111's Avatar
    Consumers just want things to work, like they work for everyone else.

    It wasn't the start up page or home screen that was an issue.... it was the lack of CandyCrush and Instagram (along with the bugs in early BB10).... that pushed consumers away.

    PlayBook.... so many lessons.
    The tragedy of BlackBerry is that they wasted billions chasing a market (consumers) where they never stood a chance, and neglected some of their most loyal customers who never wanted Candy Crush or Instagram in the first place. I wish they had made a strong, consistent case for privacy and security over convenience and "settled" for the 1-2% of the market for which they could provide the best solution.

    Now I'm going to be stuck with BlackBerry Android, which is better than generic Android insofar as losing one limb in an accident is better than losing two.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    Zidentia, ppeters914 and Jake2826 like this.
    02-19-19 04:06 PM
  14. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    No it can't. It's a 32-bit platform. It would have to be redeveloped from the ground up for new architecture.

    And, as mentioned, no drivers exist for any hardware components built after 2014.
    No you don't have to build from the ground up, whatever that means. (If you mean modular construction, then hmm maybe you are correct, if you mean finding the clay and making the bricks and forging the nails in a foundry, then no you are not correct).
    QNX alsready has board support packages for a variety of 64bit ARM architectures.
    Yes its not merely recompile from 32 to 64 bit, but in the most part it is.
    There will be testing requirements (maybe the biggest hurdle), and the drivers for components are supplied by quallcomm etc.... I don't think it takes excruciatingly long and expensive time for those to be vetted/checked or adapted for compatibility with QNX based BB10.
    BB10 was developed for SOC's from Qualcomm ArmV7, and now Qualcomm is on ArmV8 (and others) there is both a 32bit compatibility mode or a full 64bit mode....either one could be selected to base a new bb10 phone on - even if Blackberry itself didn't make the phone.
    anon(10218918) and WiseEyes like this.
    02-20-19 12:05 AM
  15. Bbnivende's Avatar
    The tragedy of BlackBerry is that they wasted billions chasing a market (consumers) where they never stood a chance, and neglected some of their most loyal customers who never wanted Candy Crush or Instagram in the first place. I wish they had made a strong, consistent case for privacy and security over convenience and "settled" for the 1-2% of the market for which they could provide the best solution.

    Now I'm going to be stuck with BlackBerry Android, which is better than generic Android insofar as losing one limb in an accident is better than losing two.

    Posted with my trusty Z10
    We are all correct. There was not just a couple of factors that contributed to the failure of the BlackBerry phone there were many.

    This is a really great article:
    https://www.theglobeandmail.com/amp/...ticle14563602/

    I think the lesson here is that BBMobile has to grow their brand . The Enterprise phone is no longer.
    Laura Knotek and ppeters914 like this.
    02-20-19 01:12 AM
  16. conite's Avatar
    No you don't have to build from the ground up, whatever that means. (If you mean modular construction, then hmm maybe you are correct, if you mean finding the clay and making the bricks and forging the nails in a foundry, then no you are not correct).
    QNX alsready has board support packages for a variety of 64bit ARM architectures.
    Yes its not merely recompile from 32 to 64 bit, but in the most part it is.
    There will be testing requirements (maybe the biggest hurdle), and the drivers for components are supplied by quallcomm etc.... I don't think it takes excruciatingly long and expensive time for those to be vetted/checked or adapted for compatibility with QNX based BB10.
    BB10 was developed for SOC's from Qualcomm ArmV7, and now Qualcomm is on ArmV8 (and others) there is both a 32bit compatibility mode or a full 64bit mode....either one could be selected to base a new bb10 phone on - even if Blackberry itself didn't make the phone.
    Drivers would be custom, and are not even written for BB10.

    To rebuild BB10 and all of its apps for 64bit, and to strip the Android Runtime, are massive undertakings - particularly when you have exactly zero BB10 developers in your employ.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-20-19 06:29 AM
  17. joeldf's Avatar
    No you don't have to build from the ground up, whatever that means. (If you mean modular construction, then hmm maybe you are correct, if you mean finding the clay and making the bricks and forging the nails in a foundry, then no you are not correct).
    QNX alsready has board support packages for a variety of 64bit ARM architectures.
    Yes its not merely recompile from 32 to 64 bit, but in the most part it is.
    There will be testing requirements (maybe the biggest hurdle), and the drivers for components are supplied by quallcomm etc.... I don't think it takes excruciatingly long and expensive time for those to be vetted/checked or adapted for compatibility with QNX based BB10.
    BB10 was developed for SOC's from Qualcomm ArmV7, and now Qualcomm is on ArmV8 (and others) there is both a 32bit compatibility mode or a full 64bit mode....either one could be selected to base a new bb10 phone on - even if Blackberry itself didn't make the phone.
    We've been over this before. There's much more to BB10 than the QNX kernel. Besides the drivers for modern mobile hardware, radios and modems, and support apps, there's the whole UI side based on a language version that's long out of development.

    So, yeah, the ground is there. But you have some re-working of that foundation to fit the new plan - run plumbing to new locations. Ever bust up a slab to run new plumbing before? Not so easy. And don't forget to put that waterproofing down and tie new rebar before filling in the trench left.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-20-19 07:07 AM
  18. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    We've been over this before. There's much more to BB10 than the QNX kernel. Besides the drivers for modern mobile hardware, radios and modems, and support apps, there's the whole UI side based on a language version that's long out of development.

    So, yeah, the ground is there. But you have some re-working of that foundation to fit the new plan - run plumbing to new locations. Ever bust up a slab to run new plumbing before? Not so easy. And don't forget to put that waterproofing down and tie new rebar before filling in the trench left.
    Living with the aftermath of a major hurricane.... surprising how little damage it takes to TOTAL a house and make it cheaper to just start over.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    02-20-19 07:52 AM
  19. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    Living with the aftermath of a major hurricane.... surprising how little damage it takes to TOTAL a house and make it cheaper to just start over.
    Okay, now there's a limit to the analogy :-).
    If somebody stole the QNX and bb10 source code and all the toolsets, and they vanished, then yeah THAT would be a hurricane...though with insurance you don't throw in the towel after a hurricane. This endeavour however is merely a blizzard or snowstorm, got to plough through it, maybe got to thaw a few frozen pipes, throw in a new furnace, airconditioner, new appliances and then in the spring, maybe some hardwood flooring here and there, repave the driveway (optional), a little landscaping (optional), and jib the plumbing a bit. The land value is still there, the neighbourhood is good, and structurally she's solid.
    WiseEyes likes this.
    02-20-19 09:04 PM
  20. conite's Avatar
    Okay, now there's a limit to the analogy :-).
    If somebody stole the QNX and bb10 source code and all the toolsets, and they vanished, then yeah THAT would be a hurricane...though with insurance you don't throw in the towel after a hurricane. This endeavour however is merely a blizzard or snowstorm, got to plough through it, maybe got to thaw a few frozen pipes, throw in a new furnace, airconditioner, new appliances and then in the spring, maybe some hardwood flooring here and there, repave the driveway (optional), a little landscaping (optional), and jib the plumbing a bit. The land value is still there, the neighbourhood is good, and structurally she's solid.
    I'm not sure why you keep bothering.

    BlackBerry wouldn't spend $18 on BB10, let alone $500,000,000 to $2,000,000,000. This has been made crystal clear.
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-20-19 09:10 PM
  21. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Okay, now there's a limit to the analogy :-).
    If somebody stole the QNX and bb10 source code and all the toolsets, and they vanished, then yeah THAT would be a hurricane...though with insurance you don't throw in the towel after a hurricane. This endeavour however is merely a blizzard or snowstorm, got to plough through it, maybe got to thaw a few frozen pipes, throw in a new furnace, airconditioner, new appliances and then in the spring, maybe some hardwood flooring here and there, repave the driveway (optional), a little landscaping (optional), and jib the plumbing a bit. The land value is still there, the neighbourhood is good, and structurally she's solid.
    You obviously aren’t familiar with hurricane insurance....
    ppeters914 and pdr733 like this.
    02-20-19 09:57 PM
  22. johnny_bravo72's Avatar
    I'm not sure why you keep bothering.

    BlackBerry wouldn't spend $18 on BB10, let alone $500,000,000 to $2,000,000,000. This has been made crystal clear.
    He must either be a chef, cook, or witch 'coz he enjoys pot stirring. 😉
    ppeters914 likes this.
    02-20-19 10:10 PM
  23. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    You obviously aren’t familiar with hurricane insurance....
    You are correct Sir. I imagine along the shores of the Gulf coast and warm waters of Atlantic it would be YUGE premiums. I guess you gotta weigh location vs. risk and bite the bullet or set aside an annual personnal reserve (self-insure) for that once in 20,40 or 100+ year re-occurance (or live in concrete houses). I got to see Galvaston a few years before Harvey pummelled it again in 2017 after the big one in 1900 (the results of which caused Houston to flourish). Up North people just pay that per year for heating their homes, and rusting their vehicles (okay maybe a bit less). But heating is expected, hurricanes not hoped for. But heck, those winters are so much more comfortable in the sun (after a few months of continuous snow-cover), so there's always that. But I've learned to cycle or is it coast in the snow a few times dressed like a skier, for some needed outdoor activity...cause they're really good at clearing sidewalks, and I thought heck my taxes are paying for it, so I might as well use them once in a while.
    02-21-19 05:26 AM
  24. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    He must either be a chef, cook, or witch 'coz he enjoys pot stirring. ������
    ...better that than smoking it, I say.
    02-21-19 05:28 AM
  25. i_plod_an_dr_void's Avatar
    I'm not sure why you keep bothering.

    BlackBerry wouldn't spend $18 on BB10, let alone $500,000,000 to $2,000,000,000. This has been made crystal clear.
    Soooooo.......does that mean they'd consider selling it for $18? (lol) No need to answer. I'm sure it's a no. But interesting all the same.
    02-21-19 05:55 AM
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