05-20-14 03:39 PM
46 12
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  1. Oglon3r's Avatar
    No this isn't another long *** rant over the failures of the company we love and support. So I'm going to keep real simple. Mass communication 101.
    Advertisement sells.
    How many advertisements on TV are shown everyday A LOT.
    How many are blackberry?
    Basically none.
    Marketing - The downfall of BlackBerry?-mk-cb544b_samsp_g_20130312184204.jpg
    source

    Why? Because Blackberry only spends $39 million in the U.S. compared to $401 and $333 million from Samsung and apple respectively.
    Now BB user base is usually older more security enterprise oriented. (Yes, we are old and fewer)
    Compared to Iphone and Androids user base. (hipsters, college and high school students. The US is a very young nation based on age census.)
    But if we were to get more ads like this Indonesian one from Indosat. We MAY stand a chance to recapture that younger clientele.



    Now disregard the cheesiness of South Asian ads. (Seriously indian ones are worse. All that dancing yo.) Also them girls all that yellow fever.
    This add was directed specifically to the youth of the nation. Of course something like above wont work in the US so we may end up seeing one more like these below.




    Why? Because whether you like to admit it or not these type of ads have brought t-mobile back from the brink of corporate take over and ultimately failure. They also propelled t-mobile into an all out war with other US cellphone providers. (Pay costumer for breakup campaign, John Legere shenanigans and JUMP.)
    Just look at this ******.



    So will blackberry be able to pull something like this in the future?
    Can blackberry make a comeback?
    Did i ******* put this thread on the wrong forum section?
    OR will blackberry end up like dell.



    You fail only to succeed in the end. Or you fail and become a miniscule entity trying to make a statement, one that will escape the eyes of everyone because all they see is the one on top, not the one in the bottom. You will only see the one with the deeper pockets and the biggest sign.
    This is a small excerpt of my Mass comm final essay, I hope you enjoyed it peace out.
    Mack Gans likes this.
    05-18-14 04:46 PM
  2. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Spending is certainly one component that is obvious and undisputed.

    But BB's ads have also been spectacularly lousy and ineffective, which means that no matter how much they spent showing them, they'd have been ineffective.

    Then you have the product, which was very incomplete and had significant bugs at launch, and still some today (the contact list issue especially - a key function), along with a very small, weak ecosystem.

    So it's not all about money. If they'd spent the same $400M that Samsung spent, but with the same product, ecosystem, and quality of ads, I don't think it would have mattered very much. BB's problems are many and varied, and fixing one without addressing the others is not going to get sales rolling in any significant way.
    05-18-14 05:11 PM
  3. birdman_38's Avatar
    BlackBerry spends 1/10 on marketing, they get 1/10 of sales compared to Apple. Simple math.

    But yes, Troy is right that during the years in the graphic, BlackBerry had not much to compete with on the consumer level.
    05-18-14 07:25 PM
  4. spikesolie's Avatar
    Spending is certainly one component that is obvious and undisputed.

    But BB's ads have also been spectacularly lousy and ineffective, which means that no matter how much they spent showing them, they'd have been ineffective.

    Then you have the product, which was very incomplete and had significant bugs at launch, and still some today (the contact list issue especially - a key function), along with a very small, weak ecosystem.

    So it's not all about money. If they'd spent the same $400M that Samsung spent, but with the same product, ecosystem, and quality of ads, I don't think it would have mattered very much. BB's problems are many and varied, and fixing one without addressing the others is not going to get sales rolling in any significant way.
    You have more money you hire a better marketing team (;

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:14 PM
  5. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    BlackBerry spends 1/10 on marketing, they get 1/10 of sales compared to Apple. Simple math.
    Actually, it's not that simple at all. If it were, then the formula for success would be simple, and BB would have no trouble borrowing the necessary money to advertise, with an assured return on that money.

    That's why I pointed out that total ad spending is only one of many factors that impacts sales. Many popular, effective ads have been hugely successful in getting sales for that company while spending relatively small amounts of money, but that's the exception to the rule, and requires that all of the other parts of the business are working correctly, PLUS a bit of luck with the popularity of fickle consumers.
    05-18-14 08:16 PM
  6. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    So that shows they actually spent less in 2012 than in 2011, wonder what the 2013 numbers would show.

    Posted via CB10
    05-18-14 08:22 PM
  7. birdman_38's Avatar
    So that shows they actually spent less in 2012 than in 2011, wonder what the 2013 numbers would show.
    Likely less than 2012. And 2014 is probably the lowest out of the past 5 years.
    05-18-14 08:26 PM
  8. badiyee's Avatar
    Maybe you should change the title:

    Something like

    "commercials that BlackBerry should emulate currently and for the future, based on previous adverts vs competitor's adverts".

    All this nonsense spewingabout "ultimately BlackBerry failed", isn't about BlackBerry failing, but rather, in respect to the nature of the discussion, how other manufacturers out-advertised BlackBerry in quantity and quality (quality is subjective, I don't understand much of the NA adverts anyway)

    I can probably point to at least 1, or a few companies that got out-advertised but still is surviving, (whether in the red or whatever, but surviving as in not yet placed "OUT OF BUSINESS" sign on their doors.)
    05-18-14 08:35 PM
  9. AnimalPak200's Avatar
    Likely less than 2012. And 2014 is probably the lowest out of the past 5 years.
    But in 2013 they actually had something to market, although they did kinda throw in the towel at half time... : /

    Posted via CB10
    TheBlkGuyFrmWrk likes this.
    05-18-14 08:52 PM
  10. moegumby's Avatar
    Instead of throwing money at advertising and marketing, they should have thrown large amounts of money at the Devs! Of the major apps people want. It's not the Galaxy or Iphone that draws consumers. It's what you can do with the device bottom line. Always has been always will. No Apps, no major change in Blackberry.

    Posted via CB10
    bbq10l likes this.
    05-18-14 08:59 PM
  11. donnation's Avatar
    OP, I enjoyed the read very much. Very well thought out and an interesting take which I largely agree with.
    05-18-14 09:16 PM
  12. targnik's Avatar
    This thread is why so few people own BlackBerry devices!! :j/k:

    Sent from my Z10-Warbird
    05-18-14 10:39 PM
  13. ubizmo's Avatar
    Then you have the product, which was very incomplete and had significant bugs at launch, and still some today (the contact list issue especially - a key function), along with a very small, weak ecosystem.

    So it's not all about money. If they'd spent the same $400M that Samsung spent, but with the same product, ecosystem, and quality of ads, I don't think it would have mattered very much. BB's problems are many and varied, and fixing one without addressing the others is not going to get sales rolling in any significant way.
    I have to agree with this. The 10.0 release version of BB10 simply wasn't ready to compete in the market with the mature iOS and Android platforms, and even WP was about a lap ahead. I realize that Thorsten Heins was in a bind, having already delayed the launch significantly. If he had chosen to delay again, at least until 10.1 was ready, it would have been ugly too. And even 10.1 wouldn't have been that much more competitive. Bugs aside, 10.2.1 is starting to look like an OS ready for the marketplace.

    The app gap is not closed until BlackBerry can work out a legal way to facilitate, and thus be able to promote, the installation of Android apps. I don't know if there's a way to do this, but they haven't done it yet. I think they did all they could to get major apps on board, but many simply didn't want to come. That's not going to change until BB10 has proven itself in the marketplace. It doesn't have to have a huge market share, but it has to have some presence, and it needs to show some indications of growth. The big name popular apps also tend to be the complex labor-intensive ones to develop and support. There's no incentive to bring them to BB10 yet.

    No amount of marketing can make up for missing features that people want, and apps need to be thought of as features. They fall into the category of "things I can do with my phone." As much as I enjoy my Q10, I know perfectly well that most consumers in North America at least are unwilling to do the things that I do to take full advantage of it. These things include installing leaks and reading CB to learn about Snap, Amazon app store, etc. You can't promote those kinds of things, so they remain invisible "power user" features.
    bbq10l, anon1727506, Ecm and 1 others like this.
    05-19-14 08:26 AM
  14. Kobe Barksdale's Avatar
    BlackBerry can only make a comeback in the USA and Canada only if they advertise gimmickly like Samsung does.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 08:31 AM
  15. --TommesJay--'s Avatar
    No this isn't another long *** rant over the failures of the company we love and support. So I'm going to keep real simple. Mass communication 101.
    Advertisement sells.
    How many advertisements on TV are shown everyday A LOT.
    How many are blackberry?
    Basically none.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MK-CB544B_SAMSP_G_20130312184204.jpg 
Views:	1919 
Size:	35.7 KB 
ID:	271744
    source

    Why? Because Blackberry only spends $39 million in the U.S. compared to $401 and $333 million from Samsung and apple respectively.
    Now BB user base is usually older more security enterprise oriented. (Yes, we are old and fewer)
    Compared to Iphone and Androids user base. (hipsters, college and high school students. The US is a very young nation based on age census.)
    But if we were to get more ads like this Indonesian one from Indosat. We MAY stand a chance to recapture that younger clientele.



    Now disregard the cheesiness of South Asian ads. (Seriously indian ones are worse. All that dancing yo.) Also them girls all that yellow fever.
    This add was directed specifically to the youth of the nation. Of course something like above wont work in the US so we may end up seeing one more like these below.




    Why? Because whether you like to admit it or not these type of ads have brought t-mobile back from the brink of corporate take over and ultimately failure. They also propelled t-mobile into an all out war with other US cellphone providers. (Pay costumer for breakup campaign, John Legere shenanigans and JUMP.)
    Just look at this ******.



    So will blackberry be able to pull something like this in the future?
    Can blackberry make a comeback?
    Did i ******* put this thread on the wrong forum section?
    OR will blackberry end up like dell.



    You fail only to succeed in the end. Or you fail and become a miniscule entity trying to make a statement, one that will escape the eyes of everyone because all they see is the one on top, not the one in the bottom. You will only see the one with the deeper pockets and the biggest sign.
    This is a small excerpt of my Mass comm final essay, I hope you enjoyed it peace out.
    See that Nokia share in your figure? Well they even less than BlackBerry and yet slowly, surely and steadily they gain more and more momentum.
    05-19-14 08:47 AM
  16. bakron1's Avatar
    The brand is dead here is the USA and unless they can come up with a super spec device and reasonably priced to get folks back on the platform, I don't see it changing any time soon.

    Some of my clients who where long time Blackberry BES users are now moving to IOS because they are concerned about long term stability and new product development for the US market.

    I can't say I blame them in some regards, I love OS10 and it's features, but in 2014 that's just not enough anymore. The consumer market has changed and Blackberry hasn't provided what the consumer has asked for.

    I would love to see them come back and be a force here again, but Apple, Google and Microsoft have embedded themselves into the culture here and no one is going to give up their app ecosystem investment to try something new at this time. Sad to say folks but I don't see it changing any time soon.


    Sent using the CB Forum app
    kbz1960 likes this.
    05-19-14 08:54 AM
  17. DaSchwantz's Avatar
    No this isn't another long *** rant over the failures of the company we love and support. So I'm going to keep real simple. Mass communication 101.
    Advertisement sells.
    How many advertisements on TV are shown everyday A LOT.
    How many are blackberry?
    Basically none.
    Click image for larger version. 

Name:	MK-CB544B_SAMSP_G_20130312184204.jpg 
Views:	1919 
Size:	35.7 KB 
ID:	271744
    source

    Why? Because Blackberry only spends $39 million in the U.S. compared to $401 and $333 million from Samsung and apple respectively.
    Now BB user base is usually older more security enterprise oriented. (Yes, we are old and fewer)
    Compared to Iphone and Androids user base. (hipsters, college and high school students. The US is a very young nation based on age census.)
    But if we were to get more ads like this Indonesian one from Indosat. We MAY stand a chance to recapture that younger clientele.



    Now disregard the cheesiness of South Asian ads. (Seriously indian ones are worse. All that dancing yo.) Also them girls all that yellow fever.
    This add was directed specifically to the youth of the nation. Of course something like above wont work in the US so we may end up seeing one more like these below.




    Why? Because whether you like to admit it or not these type of ads have brought t-mobile back from the brink of corporate take over and ultimately failure. They also propelled t-mobile into an all out war with other US cellphone providers. (Pay costumer for breakup campaign, John Legere shenanigans and JUMP.)
    Just look at this ******.



    So will blackberry be able to pull something like this in the future?
    Can blackberry make a comeback?
    Did i ******* put this thread on the wrong forum section?
    OR will blackberry end up like dell.



    You fail only to succeed in the end. Or you fail and become a miniscule entity trying to make a statement, one that will escape the eyes of everyone because all they see is the one on top, not the one in the bottom. You will only see the one with the deeper pockets and the biggest sign.
    This is a small excerpt of my Mass comm final essay, I hope you enjoyed it peace out.
    As a shareholder, I want to see them focus primarily on getting back to consistent positive cash flow so that the 'BlackBerry going bk' meme finally dies out, otherwise your ad money is wasted.

    Posted via CB10
    app_Developer likes this.
    05-19-14 08:56 AM
  18. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    Spending is certainly one component that is obvious and undisputed.

    But BB's ads have also been spectacularly lousy and ineffective, which means that no matter how much they spent showing them, they'd have been ineffective.

    Then you have the product, which was very incomplete and had significant bugs at launch, and still some today (the contact list issue especially - a key function), along with a very small, weak ecosystem.

    So it's not all about money. If they'd spent the same $400M that Samsung spent, but with the same product, ecosystem, and quality of ads, I don't think it would have mattered very much. BB's problems are many and varied, and fixing one without addressing the others is not going to get sales rolling in any significant way.
    ...which explains why they have muted their presence in the consumer market of late. They know they have bugs to fix and issues to iron out first before going back down that road.
    05-19-14 09:00 AM
  19. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    See that Nokia share in your figure? Well they even less than BlackBerry and yet slowly, surely and steadily they gain more and more momentum.
    The Lumina 520 really helped them here. BB needs to bring an LTE variant of the Z3 to the rest of the world and price it as aggressively as possible. Market it as being mostly android app compatible and they'll have a shot.
    05-19-14 09:03 AM
  20. ubizmo's Avatar
    The Lumina 520 really helped them here. BB needs to bring an LTE variant of the Z3 to the rest of the world and price it as aggressively as possible. Market it as being mostly android app compatible and they'll have a shot.
    How can they market Android app compatibility? They can't simply announce that Android apps will run on BB10 devices, because some won't. Can they pre-install Snap or the Amazon app market on BB10 phones? I think that's legally a gray area. If they make public claims that Android apps will run, they commit themselves to providing support for this capability, but I don't think they're in a position to do this. And I don't think "mostly Android app compatible" sends a message that consumers will understand or accept.

    "Try your favorite Android app, it might work!" Not a good slogan.

    I'm not one of the people who thought they shouldn't have put the Android runtime in BB10. The basic idea was to make it dead easy for developers of Android apps to list them in BB World. Some have done that, and we can be grateful for that. But many have not, and the Snap/Amazon situation is not a stable solution. It's a door that Google or Amazon can close at any time, if they choose to. Until they figure this out, they can't take full advantage of the impressive work they've done on the Android runtime.
    05-19-14 09:24 AM
  21. BlueStreak67's Avatar
    Although I may agree with most of your premise, you point loses some credibility with me.

    Too many people on here, when trying to make a point, throw out generalities like it is fact.

    If I ever seen an article or ad stating why BlackBerry has failed and they said things along the lines of.

    There is "a lot" of advertising, and BlackBerry has "basically none", it doesn't sound too thought out.

    The US is "young" based on age census?

    What census are you looking at, and young relative to what?

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 09:38 AM
  22. LuvULongTime's Avatar
    How can they market Android app compatibility? They can't simply announce that Android apps will run on BB10 devices, because some won't. Can they pre-install Snap or the Amazon app market on BB10 phones? I think that's legally a gray area. If they make public claims that Android apps will run, they commit themselves to providing support for this capability, but I don't think they're in a position to do this. And I don't think "mostly Android app compatible" sends a message that consumers will understand or accept.

    "Try your favorite Android app, it might work!" Not a good slogan.

    I'm not one of the people who thought they shouldn't have put the Android runtime in BB10. The basic idea was to make it dead easy for developers of Android apps to list them in BB World. Some have done that, and we can be grateful for that. But many have not, and the Snap/Amazon situation is not a stable solution. It's a door that Google or Amazon can close at any time, if they choose to. Until they figure this out, they can't take full advantage of the impressive work they've done on the Android runtime.
    They are already doing thus with the Z3 launch in Indonesia. They are advertising that most apps will work and are pointing folks to snap and amazon.

    Posted via CB10
    05-19-14 02:59 PM
  23. lnichols's Avatar
    It isn't just poor ads or lack of ads. They get so much negativity thrown out there because everyone still thinks BlackBerry are slow laggy BBOS devices. On the radio today I heard a DJ say here in DC on the drive home at 5:30, prime drive time, that they got a message saying a song was OK, but not great. The DJ then went on to say that the message also was sent from a BlackBerry smart phone so the person who sent it has poor standards for what is good and then a few more jabs about BlackBerry not being smart phones. No one is paying for him to out out that negativity, he was simply doing it on his own, based on what the general view of the devices are by the public.

    They will have to at some point have a campaign that attempts to change the perception. Won't be easy or cheap.

    Posted with a BlackBerry Z10
    pantlesspenguin likes this.
    05-19-14 06:48 PM
  24. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    They are already doing thus with the Z3 launch in Indonesia. They are advertising that most apps will work and are pointing folks to snap and amazon.
    Except the "they" in this case isn't BB, it is the local cell phone retailers. And the rules in emerging markets are often much looser than in developed markets. BB would likely be sued if they gave this advice to customers in the US.
    ubizmo and GingerSnapsBack like this.
    05-19-14 06:52 PM
  25. ce71's Avatar
    I think there's a lot more going on than just ads. Blackberry now has the tough task of overcoming something extremely difficult - their own self. The name "Blackberry" has become analogous with words like "joke", "old", and "lame".

    Once upon a time, Microsoft was light-years ahead of Apple. But eventually, the name "Microsoft" began to mean "uncool" and "old". Fortunately for Microsoft, they had enough bankroll to hold on, attempt to reinvent themselves, and just wait it out. I'm not saying they're over the hump, but they seem to be moving in the right direction.

    Now, sure... ads would help BlackBerry's image, but I'm not sure how much because most people won't even give them a chance. It's almost as if BlackBerry just needs to keep a low profile, and when the time is right, make a massive push and just show up out of nowhere.

    Look at Matthew McConaughey. Once upon a time he was Mr. Chick-Flick. Now, he's getting roles like Dallas Buyer's Club and Rust Cohle from True Detective. Why? Well, McConaughey himself admitted that he seemed to be stuck getting the same type of roles, so his solution was to take a couple years off until he could once again become "somebody's new idea".

    Not sure how I managed to compare BlackBerry's troubling image problem with the revitalization of Matthew McConaughey's acting career, but I better go before this gets any worse.
    sean3089 likes this.
    05-19-14 07:13 PM
46 12

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