08-22-13 12:06 AM
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  1. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I completely agree. The Q10 is a nice device, but without the apps and other elements of the ecosystem it is at an enormous disadvantage. I hope they can overcome that but I don't see how.
    08-15-13 06:15 PM
  2. scribacco's Avatar
    Sorry OP. The #1 reason why BlackBerry failed is very clear.

    The first generation iPhone was released on June 29, 2007. It took BlackBerry until January 30, 2013 to come anywhere close to a full touch screen competitor. (argue all you want, the Storm, was and still is a piece of ****)

    That means BlackBerry was asleep at the wheel for 5 years, 7 months and 1 day or, for those of you keep score at home 2,042 days.

    The lack of apps doesn't help, but other than the core BlackBerry loyalists most consumers moved on to iOS or Android and got tired of waiting.
    and the hardware that they put out in 2013 has 2011 specs..and here they keep comparing it with the iphone 4s because it does not hold a candle against the iphone 5/Galaxy 4/HTC One in speed and build quality.
    08-15-13 06:16 PM
  3. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    This is what I have never understood.......why doesn't simply go to the companies with no BB10 app and say we will build it, and we will pay you for it. Also the big ones should be baked in, all at BB's cost. What company would say "No, we don't care enough about BB that I don't want their money?" I have to wonder how many apps they could do for $10M?
    Because of a few things:

    • BB simply does not have the resources to do that. They can barely keep up with the OS updates.
    • Most companies (with a few notable exceptions) keep their APIs private, and aren't going to give away the keys to their kingdom.
    • Many of these companies aren't willing to put their app, and their brand's reputation, into anyone else's hands.
    • App development isn't a one-time expense. Most big apps connect to an ever-evolving cloud service, which means that the clients also need to be updated regularly, which requires development, testing, management, support, documentation, marketing, etc. All that costs money, every quarter, indefinitely. That's why these companies don't care about up-front cash, but only about MARKETSHARE.



    If BB could have "bought" those apps, they would have. They simply can't. They can only be "bought" with marketshare numbers.
    08-15-13 06:17 PM
  4. sentimentGX4's Avatar
    I still maintain price is the #1 reason why BB10 sales are not as high as they could be.

    Apps is a problem; but, many consumers don't care about apps. This can be evidenced by the developing world that had snapped up Curves before or the relative success of the Lumia 520.

    Unfortunately, it may not have been in Blackberry's ability to price the BB10 devices competitively.
    08-15-13 06:19 PM
  5. travaz's Avatar
    That's not Blackberry's decision to make. To work with Google Play, the OS must be certified by Google. Google won't certify an OS that is part Android, part something else.

    If BB wants access to Google services, they have to go full on Android (customized of course like Samsung and others do)
    If they start on this new Android/ BB OS it wont be out for 2 years making it only worse. They are stuck with what they got, sadly
    app_Developer likes this.
    08-15-13 06:23 PM
  6. wolf_clan's Avatar
    So you think if they came out with new phone every year and new os without all these apps that are out today they would make it? I don't think so. Apps today is like a new technolagy that everyone wants just pay attention to how many times u see or hear itunes or google play. Its all over
    I think you're misinterpreting gojaysgo's post. The lack of apps currently now is a major detriment to the success of BlackBerry but that lack of momentum was perpetuated but the sloth like movements of the former co-ceos. They practically did come out with a new phone year after year....just not a new OS (which is what was really needed) and people began moving on and so the devs (and their apps) followed.

    Posted via CB10
    GoJaysGo likes this.
    08-15-13 06:26 PM
  7. GadgetTravel's Avatar
    I still maintain price is the #1 reason why BB10 sales are not as high as they could be.
    Well, that is another way to look at it. I think the suggestion in the OP could be worded more precisely to something like: "the ecosystem phone combination doesn't support a good value proposition given the price of the devices".

    But seriously, almost all consumer choice (and I mean consumer broadly, including businesses) comes down to value. So cutting the price by 50% let's say, improves the value. The questions are whether the price can be cut enough and whether the additional sales would lead to enough additional apps in a short enough time period.
    08-15-13 06:28 PM
  8. travaz's Avatar
    I completely agree. The Q10 is a nice device, but without the apps and other elements of the ecosystem it is at an enormous disadvantage. I hope they can overcome that but I don't see how.
    I think the Z10 is a really good device. I am a totall BB Fanboy but had to go out and buy a Nexus 7 Tablet to get the apps I needed. Those are not games but things that should be basic like banking and such. Words with friends is also fun but i could live without that. My point is I paid 632.00 for my Z10 (including Tax) and now i had to spend another 250 on a tablet to get what I need.
    08-15-13 06:31 PM
  9. Tre Lawrence's Avatar
    Well, that is another way to look at it. I think the suggestion in the OP could be worded more precisely to something like: "the ecosystem phone combination doesn't support a good value proposition given the price of the devices".

    But seriously, almost all consumer choice (and I mean consumer broadly, including businesses) comes down to value. So cutting the price by 50% let's say, improves the value. The questions are whether the price can be cut enough and whether the additional sales would lead to enough additional apps in a short enough time period.
    I can get with this. Since (IMHO) the ecosystem is somewhat lacking, it can be argued that the devices are overpriced.
    08-15-13 06:42 PM
  10. bitek's Avatar
    I think the Z10 is a really good device. I am a totall BB Fanboy but had to go out and buy a Nexus 7 Tablet to get the apps I needed. Those are not games but things that should be basic like banking and such. Words with friends is also fun but i could live without that. My point is I paid 632.00 for my Z10 (including Tax) and now i had to spend another 250 on a tablet to get what I need.
    Same situation. Just got 2013 Nexus 7. Great tablet but i still like Bb10 better. One thing I would like to see on z10 are widgets.
    Bb10 is so far superior.

    Sent from my Z10 using Tapatalk 2
    08-15-13 06:47 PM
  11. aron2's Avatar
    I think you're misinterpreting gojaysgo's post. The lack of apps currently now is a major detriment to the success of BlackBerry but that lack of momentum was perpetuated but the sloth like movements of the former co-ceos. They practically did come out with a new phone year after year....just not a new OS (which is what was really needed) and people began moving on and so the devs (and their apps) followed.

    Posted via CB10
    Could be but bb was always behing from day one with apps and they knew it would be a big game player in the future why did they not go all out and be in the same market app wise when they first came out with new os
    08-15-13 08:03 PM
  12. kenicolo's Avatar
    No sales are low because of the public image and the fear of the salesman

    Posted via CB10
    shaunj539 likes this.
    08-15-13 08:35 PM
  13. kenicolo's Avatar
    Devices are also expesiiiive !!?

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 08:36 PM
  14. dbmalloy's Avatar
    Blaming it ont the app ecosystem is a hollow argument.... In the case of apps.... everyone will always find featuers of apps that are not available... on most platforms... does that make it a failure???? seems for many yes... how do you answer the poster when Netflix, Instagran and Hulu are all avaible for BB and they pull out the next list of what is not available.... Apps are simply a bill of goods we have been sold to make the vendors money.... the bill of goods is that do not look at what you can do with you device.... look at what is missing.... if you judge by what is missing not other platform other than Apple and Android stands a chance.... Blackberry is plain and simply in a predicament of their own making.... if they die it will by a self inflicted wound and not by lack of anyting....
    08-15-13 08:49 PM
  15. bb8900edit's Avatar
    The old OS left a bad taste in consumers mouth. The constant freezing, having to restart to delete a app were some of the cries. Here in Jamaica BlackBerry had a huge market share but that has died down, and I mean wwwwaaayyyy down. When I tell people of BB10 they instantly think it's a new phone with the same OS, then they ask of the apps, when I explain sideloading they say they can't bother it's too much work. Really other than the die hards there isn't much BB users here. My BBM list moved from 111 contacts to 33. I myself am thinking of getting another device, I love BlackBerry so I won't switch but I need something else to fill that app gap until BlackBerry can come up with something and trust me sideloading is not the solution because the average person will not take the time to do it, they want when a friend says hey this is the latest app they can download it right away not having to wait until they get to a computer to hopefully find a apk and convert it and with BBM going cross platform I dont see anyone returning.


    Saying that you have the best keyboard doesn't cut it, I spoke to a friend recently and they are willing to get a BlackBerry again in fear of that it will freeze and they'd have to pull the battery.

    I love BlackBerry and I'm hoping and praying that they find a solution. Keep on moving.

    Posted via CB10 - Channel C0007098A
    08-15-13 08:55 PM
  16. BroncoVAL's Avatar
    Lack of ecosystem is a crucial point but a premium price for an outsider OS is way more important imho.
    If they'd price their devices more reasonably a lot more people would have perceived them as great communication devices understanding the appstore is a work in progress.
    Too expensive for what it proposes, it's how most of my friends react when i do some proselytism. They prefer to go with the already well provided usual ecosystems (iOS And android, nobody talks about windows phone at least here in italy) even if i can sense more interest when i tell them they could grab a second hand device such as i did for about half the retail price (on ebay 350 instead of 699 euro without contract)

    Posted via CB10
    AYC2112 likes this.
    08-15-13 09:03 PM
  17. loveBB6.0's Avatar
    There is nothing in BlackBerry that can't be added to Android and even if there's some small features the lack of so many apps makes it worthless

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:03 PM
  18. BroncoVAL's Avatar
    Humm i disagree...always found android too messy and too geek friendly.
    Blackberry is more elegant and has surely a lot more to see with Apple's eye candy User Interface.
    Some may find it useless, but i do appreciate when things are done with a certain touch (android is more swiss army knife solution, lot more features with a poor interface)
    Only my opinion, don't mean to offend any android fan

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:10 PM
  19. Bbnivende's Avatar
    I completely agree. The Q10 is a nice device, but without the apps and other elements of the ecosystem it is at an enormous disadvantage. I hope they can overcome that but I don't see how.
    Most consumers want an all touch phone like the Z10 but this phone cane out with wonky OS and harware problems . BB was far too radical with the OS. Consumers are looking for a reliable phone at a good price. At that time the Z10 was neither.
    08-15-13 09:10 PM
  20. Rickroller's Avatar
    I think the Z10 is a really good device. I am a totall BB Fanboy but had to go out and buy a Nexus 7 Tablet to get the apps I needed. Those are not games but things that should be basic like banking and such. Words with friends is also fun but i could live without that. My point is I paid 632.00 for my Z10 (including Tax) and now i had to spend another 250 on a tablet to get what I need.
    That's where Google hit it out of the park with the Nexus 4. Premium build quality, great specs all with a $350 unsubsidized price tag. Are there things about it that could've been better? Absolutely. But for the price point..it can't be beat imo.

    Sent from my Nexus 4 using Tapatalk 2
    08-15-13 09:17 PM
  21. Xiaoyuan Wang's Avatar
    BlackBerry, you have to achieve a balance between customers and big app developers. You have to win two markets. For the app market, who is the Demand side? You are the Demand side. If you tell everyone that the Demand is decreasing, then app suppliers will be discouraged. Here is the suggestions: 1,stop telling people the subscription base is decreasing. 2, put more weights on the developer side. Let them advertise the brand indirectly. They are facing consumers, you are a platform provider. 3, match vustomer's purchase and ratings. If people spent 2 dollar, match another 2 dollars. Or do the math and give another number. 4, please make you advertisement clear. You are selling a platform or a set of phones? Don't just ask some cool guys to carry the phone and say keep moving. People don't get it. BlackBerry os is gesture based. Why we need a gesture based phone? For a iPhone user, it may not be obvious. Help them. Why hub is better? I use it and I know it. They don't. I did not say you cannot exaggerate---use the example in iron man. Tony's housekeeper javas is gesture based. I know you are improving. I am not here to blame.

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:18 PM
  22. redk's Avatar
    BlackBerry failed because of the pearl, it didn't have wifi. That is the reason right there .


    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:32 PM
  23. Xiaoyuan Wang's Avatar
    BlackBerry, you have to achieve a balance between customers and big app developers. You have to win two markets. For the app market, who is the Demand side? You are the Demand side. If you tell everyone that the Demand is decreasing, then app suppliers will be discouraged. Here is the suggestions: 1,stop telling people the subscription base is decreasing. 2, put more weights on the developer side. Let them advertise the brand indirectly. They are facing consumers, you are a platform provider. 3, match vustomer's purchase and ratings. If people spent 2 dollar, match another 2 dollars. Or do the math and give another number. 4, please make you advertisement clear. You are selling a platform or a set of phones? Don't just ask some cool guys to carry the phone and say keep moving. People don't get it. BlackBerry os is gesture based. Why we need a gesture based phone? For a iPhone user, it may not be obvious. Help them. Why hub is better? I use it and I know it. They don't. I did not say you cannot exaggerate---use the example in iron man. Tony's housekeeper javas is gesture based. I know you are improving. I am not here to blame.

    Posted via CB10
    Should be jarvis--just a rather very intelligent system.

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:34 PM
  24. antiextra's Avatar
    Since this is a chicken and egg problem with every developers (and even phone buyers) in wait-and-see mode, the only easier solution is not to woo every developers out there with bags of cash but to focus on one or two super popular apps like Instagram (I know the most overrated app ever). If they can get it on BB10, it signals to all developers to reconsider BB10. The developers I worked with are now considering Windows Phone ever since Facebook developing a native app for them. Before this they are in the same idle wait-and-see mode. So slowly one by one these developers will see it as a viable platform and beginning channelling their resources on it.

    Posted via CB10
    08-15-13 09:38 PM
  25. BBSpring's Avatar
    it's poor brand management.....the perception of the Blackberry took a hit about 3-4 yrs ago....Apps were not the must have/be all then. BBRY lost it's luster, because they did not listen to the consumer, they did not defend their values, they did not change the offer......

    When Apple and Samsung attacked via Social, PR and Press. BBRY stayed silent. It's a very serious business climate out there. Have any of you watched a CNET, BGR or Techcrunch review of a Blackberry device? Do you think it's by coincidence that they all say the same things over and over, even when some of them are not true. BRAND MANAGEMENT!!!!

    Fix it. Audi did it, Nobody would touch Audi's is the 90's,due to bad reviews and poor quality from the 80"s.Now look at Audi.

    Waterloo, FIX IT!
    Last edited by BBSpring; 08-15-13 at 09:46 PM. Reason: spelling error
    08-15-13 09:42 PM
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