04-12-14 06:03 PM
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  1. jorgkbzas's Avatar
    First i disagree with the statement of saying, he could leave the devices produccin. This brings fear to the user , nobody will buy a device with him saying this stuff... he also say he is not taking crab, he is giving us crap now the users..
    Means if i buy a z3 no more support for it , if they launch a new bb could be the last? Nobody its going to buy if the ceo its saying fail comments, giving a lot of food to all bb haters out there, he is killing our faith in the company , with this little comment, instead of taking advantage, and promote the z3 & other devices, now he say he could leave us..

    Pls Mr chen understand that i wont use apple i wont use samsung! We.need BB

    If he cant make money with devices bring somebody who can ... he have the best os. What else do you need??
    A better keyboard? You have it a better explorer you have it a sexure device yoi have it! What else do you need? Maybe more positive thinking and a hire a marketing persons, because i didn't hear nothing about BB.

    I like the idea of investing in acquisitions of companies. But if we can get a benefit of then in our devices. Your software qnx its in a lots of cars, i prefer pair a bb with them also yoi cant leave us think before talk pls.

    I use to admire you, Chen. I use to belive you was the savior, but with that actitud.... i feel desapointed , but i wont lose my hope in you.. keep going, make thing done..
    If he cant raise money with devices, pls bring some1 who can!-1387992892040_167266.jpeg

    Posted via CB10
    04-10-14 02:54 AM
  2. eldricho's Avatar
    The hardware business is currently their biggest cash burner. BlackBerry could save a lot of cash and get profitable a lot faster if the hardware business is gone. It's something we don't want to see happen, but if it is what will keep BlackBerry alive, so be it. The more they hold on to it, the more cash they'll keep burning and currently they don't have so much.

    Posted via CB10
    04-10-14 06:22 AM
  3. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    If he cant make money with devices bring somebody who can ... he have the best os. What else do you need??
    Apps - which he's at a disadvantage with
    Distribution - his competitors in many cases have their own
    An ecosystem - which he sublicenses from others in many cases
    Margins - which are negative ... not only for him but sputtering for others as well

    It's easy to say, "If he can't make money doing hardware, bring in someone who can!", but much harder to find that person. It's an unfortunate reality my friend ... as much as we all want BlackBerry hardware, the losses over the last two years have been because of hardware.

    We may simply have to accept the reality ... if the Foxcomm arrangement doesn't put Z3s into a lot of hands at a way that doesn't lose money and the Q20 doesn't bring the upgrades that the Q10 was supposed to bring, I can very quickly see them lobbing off the handset business. Thousands would lose their jobs sadly, but "BlackBerry" would become the company that makes BBM, QNX and BES
    Supa_Fly1 likes this.
    04-10-14 06:37 AM
  4. sixpacker's Avatar
    Apps - which he's at a disadvantage with
    Distribution - his competitors in many cases have their own
    An ecosystem - which he sublicenses from others in many cases
    Margins - which are negative ... not only for him but sputtering for others as well

    It's easy to say, "If he can't make money doing hardware, bring in someone who can!", but much harder to find that person. It's an unfortunate reality my friend ... as much as we all want BlackBerry hardware, the losses over the last two years have been because of hardware.

    We may simply have to accept the reality ... if the Foxcomm arrangement doesn't put Z3s into a lot of hands at a way that doesn't lose money and the Q20 doesn't bring the upgrades that the Q10 was supposed to bring, I can very quickly see them lobbing off the handset business. Thousands would lose their jobs sadly, but "BlackBerry" would become the company that makes BBM, QNX and BES
    And of course bbm makes no money, qnx a modest amount, no idea on bes. Devices is where the big money is, what's sad is they seem to have given up on this huge market. Even in markets where they were strong they've lost interest.
    04-10-14 06:50 AM
  5. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    And of course bbm makes no money, qnx a modest amount, no idea on bes. Devices is where the big money is, what's sad is they seem to have given up on this huge market. Even in markets where they were strong they've lost interest.
    BES makes a few hundred million, if I remember right. It's important to make distinctions here between big revenue and big profit. BlackBerry and many other manufacturers do not make "big money" on hardware. They make big "revenue", but small margins, no margins or negative margins. Apple makes big margins, Samsung decent but most others do not. The gross margins on software and services is typically much higher (like 80-90% instead of 20-35%).

    It's entirely possible that BlackBerry could become a 600-700 person company that makes $600-$1 billion annually from software and services while turning a nice profit.
    04-10-14 07:06 AM
  6. tek1255's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the devices BlackBerry releases need to on top of the spec game. Look at the s5 for example . It blows the z3 away and you can get two for $199. Also the z3 won't be out for months. I know people say the BlackBerry 10 doesn't need all the specs. Well that's the cell phone community. Do you want the community or not? I remember saying the same thing about apps, if we get the apps we can hold on. Most responses to that thread were BlackBerry doesn't need apps. So, as a user since the curve, I'm definitely on the fence of even getting a z30 from my z10. It sounds like the handset division of BlackBerry no longer has a backbone.

    Posted via CB10
    04-10-14 07:11 AM
  7. Nemzy's Avatar
    We may simply have to accept the reality ... if the Foxcomm arrangement doesn't put Z3s into a lot of hands at a way that doesn't lose money and the Q20 doesn't bring the upgrades that the Q10 was supposed to bring, I can very quickly see them lobbing off the handset business. Thousands would lose their jobs sadly, but "BlackBerry" would become the company that makes BBM, QNX and BES
    I don't even believe it is about whether the new phones deliver or not. People first of all don't know that BlackBerry still make phones. They don't know the features of the OS and BlackBerry has a negative perception. With no marketing or advertising, we shouldn't be surprised when these phones don't sell. You won't buy something that you don't know about. So if this carries on, BlackBerry will inevitably drop out of the handset market. People say it a lot on this forum but there has to be advertising. Advertise on YouTube, Let people know, show them the key features that separate them from other OS's, see if they buy it.

    If they don't at least you know that you tried but right now they are not trying.
    04-10-14 07:11 AM
  8. Nemzy's Avatar
    First i disagree with the statement of saying, he could leave the devices producci�n. This brings fear to the user , nobody will buy a device with him saying this stuff... he also say he is not taking crab, he is giving us crap now the users..
    Means if i buy a z3 no more support for it , if they launch a new bb could be the last? Nobody its going to buy if the ceo its saying fail comments, giving a lot of food to all bb haters out there, he is killing our faith in the company , with this little comment, instead of taking advantage, and promote the z3 & other devices, now he say he could leave us..

    Pls Mr chen understand that i wont use apple i wont use samsung! We.need BB

    If he cant make money with devices bring somebody who can ... he have the best os. What else do you need??
    A better keyboard? You have it a better explorer you have it a sexure device yoi have it! What else do you need? Maybe more positive thinking and a hire a marketing persons, because i didn't hear nothing about BB.

    I like the idea of investing in acquisitions of companies. But if we can get a benefit of then in our devices. Your software qnx its in a lots of cars, i prefer pair a bb with them also yoi cant leave us think before talk pls.

    I use to admire you, Chen. I use to belive you was the savior, but with that actitud.... i feel desapointed , but i wont lose my hope in you.. keep going, make thing done..
    Click image for larger version. 

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    Posted via CB10
    Chen has done nothing but stated the obvious. The task is not easy so you can't just "find someone else" to do it. I think he is doing a very reasonable job at the moment. Like I pointed out above, BlackBerry need to sort out advertising of their devices before they decide to leave the handset market.
    acovey likes this.
    04-10-14 07:32 AM
  9. SirJes's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the devices BlackBerry releases need to on top of the spec game. Look at the s5 for example . It blows the z3 away and you can get two for $199. Also the z3 won't be out for months. I know people say the BlackBerry 10 doesn't need all the specs. Well that's the cell phone community. Do you want the community or not? I remember saying the same thing about apps, if we get the apps we can hold on. Most responses to that thread were BlackBerry doesn't need apps. So, as a user since the curve, I'm definitely on the fence of even getting a z30 from my z10. It sounds like the handset division of BlackBerry no longer has a backbone.

    Posted via CB10
    Did u just compare a flagship high end device, to a...not even entry level device?

    Posted via CB10
    04-10-14 07:38 AM
  10. tek1255's Avatar
    Oh you mean the flagship high end device that will be just about the same price as our so called low end device. YES I did because they already made the phone just as cheap with better specs months and months before it's released.

    Posted via CB10
    04-10-14 11:24 AM
  11. jorgkbzas's Avatar
    Never mind.... but about the storys floating, i take them from here crackberry...
    But today when i wake up i read this good news, So i retract all i say yesterday, and give my apologies to the Chen.... but its good he see how that story floating could make us react..

    The good news i read from here CB:


    Last night some stories we floating around stating that BlackBerry CEO, John Chen would "consider dumping" the handset business if that portion of the company remains unprofitable. Fact of the matter is, that's not the case ? "my comments were taken out of context," he says.

    Chen says he has no intention of selling off the handset business, and that the focus of the company is trying to make the business profitable.

    From Inside BlackBerry

    Yesterday, Reuters published an article that said I would consider selling our Devices business. My comments were taken out of context.

    I want to assure you that I have no intention of selling off or abandoning this business any time soon.? I know you still love your BlackBerry devices. I love them too and I know they created the foundation of this company. Our focus today is on finding a way to make this business profitable.

    BlackBerry is not a handset-only company. We offer an end-to-end solution and devices are an important part of that equation. That?s why we?re complementing our Devices business with other revenue streams from enterprise services and software, to messaging. We?re also investing in emerging solutions such as Machine toMachine technologies that will help to power the backbone of the Internet of Things.

    We will do everything in our power to continue to rebuild this business and deliver devices with the iconic keyboard and other features that you have come to expect from this brand.?

    Rest assured, we continue to fight. We have not given up and we are not leaving the Devices business.

    So long story short ? don't worry! BlackBerry isn't getting out of the device business and will "continue to fight." So you can keep using your BlackBerry and go about your business!

    Posted via CB10
    acovey likes this.
    04-10-14 11:39 AM
  12. Emaderton3's Avatar
    Chen has done nothing but stated the obvious. The task is not easy so you can't just "find someone else" to do it. I think he is doing a very reasonable job at the moment. Like I pointed out above, BlackBerry need to sort out advertising of their devices before they decide to leave the handset market.
    Ditto. It is quite possible that no matter who you hire the perception is what it is and the brand is damaged.

    Posted via CB10
    Nemzy likes this.
    04-10-14 07:58 PM
  13. LazyEvul's Avatar
    Oh you mean the flagship high end device that will be just about the same price as our so called low end device. YES I did because they already made the phone just as cheap with better specs months and months before it's released.

    Posted via CB10
    The Galaxy S5 for $199 deal you just mentioned is on a two-year contract. The Z3 is going to be under $200 off-contract, as phone contracts are uncommon in the developing markets it's targeting. A single Galaxy S5 is $730 off-contract, give or take a hundred bucks depending on the market.
    app_Developer and acovey like this.
    04-10-14 10:19 PM
  14. tek1255's Avatar
    Your getting two s5's for $199. That's?$100 per phone. The lowest a phone can go is free. So, your getting a top notch flagship phone for what an extra $100? $100 what's the big difference.


    Posted via CB10
    04-11-14 02:40 AM
  15. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Your getting two s5's for $199. That's?$100 per phone. The lowest a phone can go is free. So, your getting a top notch flagship phone for what an extra $100? $100 what's the big difference.
    The difference is that to get those 2 S5's, you have to commit to a 2-year contract that has about $20/month of extra fees built into the price, which is designed to pay back the subsidy (and then some). So, you are paying $100 down and $480 in "payments" ($20 x 24 months), for a total of $580 per phone, or $1160 total.

    Compare that to a $200 Z3 (or other low-price no-contract phone, like the Lumia 520 or Moto G), where your total is $400.

    You understand the difference between $1160 and $400, right? (It's a $760 difference!).

    PLUS... by owning the phone outright, you can use a pre-paid phone plan, which is even cheaper per month than a post-paid plan, even after compensating for the subsidy repayment.

    Now, there's no question that an S5 is superior hardware in every aspect compared to the Z3 (the S5 is a flagship, the Z3 is an entry-level phone), so that is most of the difference.

    But you also need to realize that the Z3 is intended for emerging markets, where the average person's monthly gross income is $500 or less per month - few can afford to pay for S5s (about 2 month's net pay), but a lot more can afford a Z3 (half a month's pay) and the much lower monthly bills as a result. Plus, in most countries, subsidized phones don't even exist, so no matter what phone you buy, you pay the full price up-front.

    The North American market, and the way they sell phones, is the EXCEPTION, and not the rule, compared to the rest of the world.
    04-11-14 05:33 PM
  16. RubberChicken76's Avatar
    The Galaxy S5 for $199 deal you just mentioned is on a two-year contract. The Z3 is going to be under $200 off-contract, as phone contracts are uncommon in the developing markets it's targeting. A single Galaxy S5 is $730 off-contract, give or take a hundred bucks depending on the market.
    The nerve of you speaking with facts and logic...



    Posted via CB10
    04-11-14 06:54 PM
  17. tek1255's Avatar
    So I just went directly to Verizon wireless it and two s5's it says final price of $199. Doesn't include anything about $20 payment plans for 24 months. I'm talking about people who want to upgrade there phone maybe you misunderstood what I was talking about. Those large numbers stated where to justify your argument. It doesn't matter what off contact is and on contact is. If someone who wants to upgrade there phone they can get two flag ship high end devices and basically not even look at a low level entry device like a z3.

    Posted via CB10
    04-11-14 07:10 PM
  18. app_Developer's Avatar
    So I just went directly to Verizon wireless it and two s5's it says final price of $199. Doesn't include anything about $20 payment plans for 24 months. I'm talking about people who want to upgrade there phone maybe you misunderstood what I was talking about. Those large numbers stated where to justify your argument. It doesn't matter what off contact is and on contact is. If someone who wants to upgrade there phone they can get two flag ship high end devices and basically not even look at a low level entry device like a z3.

    Posted via CB10
    If you buy those two phones, you will be asked to choose a monthly plan. Before you go to complete the purchase you will see the terms and conditions that say you are committing to a 2-year term on that plan.

    If you look at the plan cost, you can compare it to pre-paid plans and see you are paying a premium to cover the subsidy on the device.

    If the Z3 were to be sold with the same terms it would be free or possibly even a negative price (account credit). In the markets where it will actually be sold, off-contract, it will be a fraction of the price on an S5.



    Sent from my iPhone 5S using Tapatalk
    04-11-14 07:18 PM
  19. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    So I just went directly to Verizon wireless it and two s5's it says final price of $199. Doesn't include anything about $20 payment plans for 24 months.
    Carriers just LOVE customers who can't be bothered to actually do the math.

    Of course they don't TELL you that they've jacked up the prices of the monthly service to pay back the phone subsidy, because then anyone who continued to use their phone beyond their two year contract would expect their service price to drop, and why would they want that, if they can get people to continue to keep paying that extra $20 a month indefinitely? The carriers aren't stupid (and they know many of their customer are, or are at least naive and don't want to be bothered with the details), and they absolutely take advantage of that to get as much money from them as they can. But anyone who knows anything about the US cellular business will tell you that of course you are paying back the full cost of the phone, and more, as part of your service fee. They just hide that fact from the casual customer, hoping they don't notice, and hoping those who do notice are too lazy, apathetic, or resigned to this that they don't actually do anything about it.

    Again, the whole subsidized phone model doesn't even exist in most countries - you either buy your phone outright, or you don't get one. Until pretty recently, subsidies only really existed in the US and Canada, and everyone who took advantage ended up paying MORE for their phone on the subsidy. It's just that their "downpayment" was low, and that's all most people cared about.
    ZayDub likes this.
    04-11-14 09:34 PM
  20. cbvinh's Avatar
    I think tek1255 makes a valid point though. In the U.S., there hasn't been a discount by bringing your own device, except with T-Mobile. Whether your got a subsidized device or not, you're still paying the same monthly bill. If anything, the subsidized business model meant that if you /kept/ your device more than two years, you'd be losing out. An S5 for $200 is within most people's reach in the U.S. A Z3 for $200 outright /would/ be compared to an S5 for $200 and people would most likely choose the higher spec device.

    Now that carriers are offering BYOD, maybe consumer blogs will point out the benefits more, but until then, people will compare on what they can get for $200, subsidized or not.
    04-11-14 09:48 PM
  21. early2bed's Avatar
    Meanwhile, another tech giant, Amazon, will be entering the smartphone market this year. Nobody will be able to compete with them on price because they are going to take a loss on the hardware and profit via their massive ecosystem. I'm betting that JC has completely written off the consumer smartphone market at this point. I would be surprised if he continued to sink money into trying to stay in this part of the hardware market.
    04-11-14 10:01 PM
  22. acovey's Avatar
    Your getting two s5's for $199. That's?$100 per phone. The lowest a phone can go is free. So, your getting a top notch flagship phone for what an extra $100? $100 what's the big difference.


    Posted via CB10
    SO WHAT, it's NOT a Blackberry
    04-11-14 10:07 PM
  23. badiyee's Avatar
    Just to play the devil's advocate here. If I'm a shareholder, I want somebody who wants and can and have the know how to maximise value, instead if just trying to make one thing work. Because if all values are maximised, there are plenty of chances to make things work.

    So why be insistent on one, when one can go all out and do all?

    Posted via CB on BB10
    04-11-14 10:08 PM
  24. CpE CKS's Avatar
    OP, try running BlackBerry yourself. Thank you.

    BlackBerry by choice. Powered by BlackBerry 10. I choose BlackBerry. Keep moving.

    Edit:

    Some people are just too rude. The 'Mr. Know-it-all's. Thinking they know everything. Belittling people doing big things. Try climbing from the bottom of a big rally sometimes. Then maybe you would appreciate what others are going through.
    04-11-14 10:12 PM
  25. LazyEvul's Avatar
    I think tek1255 makes a valid point though. In the U.S., there hasn't been a discount by bringing your own device, except with T-Mobile. Whether your got a subsidized device or not, you're still paying the same monthly bill. If anything, the subsidized business model meant that if you /kept/ your device more than two years, you'd be losing out. An S5 for $200 is within most people's reach in the U.S. A Z3 for $200 outright /would/ be compared to an S5 for $200 and people would most likely choose the higher spec device.

    Now that carriers are offering BYOD, maybe consumer blogs will point out the benefits more, but until then, people will compare on what they can get for $200, subsidized or not.
    If the Z3 were to come to North America (which I suspect won't happen until the LTE variant is ready at the very least), carriers could still subsidize it if they felt so inclined, and chances are we'd be looking at a $0 device on a two-year term. Otherwise it'd be sold as a prepaid device, and prepaid buyers aren't likely to be cross-shopping with the Galaxy S5 anyhow.

    In other words, comparing a flagship device to an entry-level device is nonsensical no matter how you frame it. I'd be far more worried about competition from Nokia and the endless sea of low-end Android manufacturers.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    04-11-14 10:47 PM
43 12

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