09-28-14 03:58 AM
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  1. stardomains's Avatar
    I think it would be cool to have BlackBerry to license BlackBerry 10 OS to Tablet manufacturer's only. They wouldn't be allowed to make handsets, just tablets for it. The tablet manufacturers would put their might behind marketing and distribution and BlackBerry 10 OS would get out there to a wider audience. Good idea?
    gokulesh likes this.
    09-17-14 11:21 AM
  2. Elite1's Avatar
    I don't think they're at the place where they'd decide to do this, but it is a very intriguing idea!

    In addition to expanding the BB10 userbase and introducing BB10 to fans of other OEM brands, it would let BBRY dip their toes in the pool with the concept of third party handsets without really committing to it.
    09-17-14 12:12 PM
  3. ccbs's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the problem is nobody wants BB10.
    There are no hardware vendor out there that would want a BB10 OS for their handset or tablet. To most Android licensees/ OHA members, it is as good as a dead platform. There are close to zero third party apps support, no user demand, and the only viable market of high security regulated enterprises are too small for multiple players to play in. Even BBRY themselves are trying to get out of it and keeps sending out messages that it is not about phone anymore. Enterprise service that are platform agnostic is the future for BBRY.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-17-14 01:23 PM
  4. stardomains's Avatar
    Unfortunately, the problem is nobody wants BB10.
    There are no hardware vendor out there that would want a BB10 OS for their handset or tablet. To most Android licensees/ OHA members, it is as good as a dead platform. There are close to zero third party apps support, no user demand, and the only viable market of high security regulated enterprises are too small for multiple players to play in. Even BBRY themselves are trying to get out of it and keeps sending out messages that it is not about phone anymore. Enterprise service that are platform agnostic is the future for BBRY.
    I disagree that nobody wants it. I wouldn't have written my idea if I thought that. But, if you simply license the OS and have the manufacturers do the heavy lifting and let it get out there for people to enjoy, then it's adoption would increase IMO. And some of these manufacturers are putting out some great stuff. Sell it to them for like $2 per device with minimum specs required and boom, people are using BB 10 tablets all over. I know I would use a well made ASUS or Samsung BB10 Tablet. Best mobile browser there is from many tests. Among other benefits. A hub on a tablet would be great, and make each tablet required to have a PIN so BBM will work too.
    Elite1, gokulesh and theRock1975 like this.
    09-17-14 02:15 PM
  5. evodevo69's Avatar
    Waste of time if you cannot replicate the apple or Google ecosystems.

    #CB10 #DirtyThirty #AmazingSpeakers
    09-17-14 03:59 PM
  6. prplhze2000's Avatar
    Bb10 has the same problem as webOS. Great system and few apps.

    And yes, I love to watch GOT on my ipad mini on HBO app

    Posted via CB10
    Blomsternisse likes this.
    09-17-14 08:47 PM
  7. Elite1's Avatar
    Waste of time if you cannot replicate the apple or Google ecosystems.
    Well, in this concept it would have both BlackBerry World and Amazon Appstore preloaded, plus the more savvy users could install other Android app stores as well.

    Posted via CB10 from my Z30
    sk8er_tor likes this.
    09-17-14 08:49 PM
  8. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    I disagree that nobody wants it.
    There may be a relatively small number of customers who want a BB10 tablet, but there are no OEMs who are interested in BB10. BB spent more than a year trying to find an OEM interested in licensing BB10, and there were no takers, and this was before they put the company up for sale and didn't get an offer (besides Watsa's bogus, unfunded offer) and before BB10's marketshare really crashed.

    OEMs understand that the licensing fees that BB would need would make any tablet uncompetitive price-wise, because Android can be had nearly for free. Couple that with the BB ecosystem issues, and you simply couldn't hope to sell enough tablets to make such a venture profitable. That's why not even BB, who doesn't have to pay a license, is making a BB10 tablet.
    09-18-14 12:54 PM
  9. stardomains's Avatar
    Where is the report that they shopped licensing BB10 to no avail? Hard to believe unless they ask for quite a bit of for usage rights like you say.

    Anyhow, these large Asian manufacturers would surely make a competitive product as it is their expertise and what with the tablet market flooded with cheap Android tablets surely one of them would be smart enough to diversify into another OS.

    You doubters have yet to persuade me otherwise.

    Posted via CB10
    sk8er_tor and gokulesh like this.
    09-18-14 01:17 PM
  10. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Where is the report that they shopped licensing BB10 to no avail? Hard to believe unless they ask for quite a bit of for usage rights like you say.
    There were several (at least) interviews by Heins where he discussed that BB had been seeking partners for a number of possibilities, including licensing. He was asked this directly in at least twice that I remember, and there were SO many mentions of "BB is looking into all potential partnership possibilities". It was even discussed in quarterly reports to investors. All of this was extensively discussed here on CB for many months, during the "BB10 isn't selling" period through the "For Sale sign" period. It's hardly in dispute.
    JeepBB and anon1727506 like this.
    09-19-14 10:59 AM
  11. sk8er_tor's Avatar
    There were several (at least) interviews by Heins where he discussed that BB had been seeking partners for a number of possibilities, including licensing. He was asked this directly in at least twice that I remember, and there were SO many mentions of "BB is looking into all potential partnership possibilities". It was even discussed in quarterly reports to investors. All of this was extensively discussed here on CB for many months, during the "BB10 isn't selling" period through the "For Sale sign" period. It's hardly in dispute.
    I follow BlackBerry A LOT and I've never heard them talk about looking for licencing agreements. In fact, I recall Heins and co saying that they did not think it was time to do that and that it may be possible in the future, but not at this time.
    09-19-14 11:05 AM
  12. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    Note the date on these articles: before the release of BB10:

    BlackBerry: other manufacturers could license our new BB10 platform - Telegraph
    RIM Will License Out BB10 To Anyone, Says CEO

    And then this one:

    RIM Still Open to Licensing BlackBerry 10 - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

    From June 2013:

    Licensing BB10 -

    During the "for sale" period (note they brought in Chase to try to help them find "strategic partners" to create value, which definitely would have included licensing.

    BlackBerry Puts Itself Up for Sale - WSJ


    And then there are some threads from CB (there are plenty more - do a search):

    http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...g-bb10-845852/

    http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...g-time-869933/
    anon1727506 likes this.
    09-19-14 11:27 AM
  13. stardomains's Avatar
    Note the date on these articles: before the release of BB10:

    BlackBerry: other manufacturers could license our new BB10 platform - Telegraph
    RIM Will License Out BB10 To Anyone, Says CEO

    And then this one:

    RIM Still Open to Licensing BlackBerry 10 - John Paczkowski - Mobile - AllThingsD

    From June 2013:

    Licensing BB10 -

    During the "for sale" period (note they brought in Chase to try to help them find "strategic partners" to create value, which definitely would have included licensing.

    BlackBerry Puts Itself Up for Sale - WSJ


    And then there are some threads from CB (there are plenty more - do a search):

    http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...g-bb10-845852/

    http://forums.crackberry.com/armchai...g-time-869933/
    You wrote:
    "BB spent more than a year trying to find an OEM interested in licensing BB10, and there were no takers"

    These articles talk about the possibilities of licensing. I don't read anywhere a report that states "there were no takers" or specifically they spent a year doing so. The gist of the articles seem to be that BlackBerry considered licensing. Which is a whole lot different than 1. actually doing it and 2. actually doing it and having no takers.

    Until I read a trustworthy news source that reports there were no takers and mentions a time span of how long they shopped it, I surely won't believe it. With the tech-behemoths, hedge-funds and other powerful entities who stand to gain if they get rid of competition and will do who-knows-what to profit and make the mobile industry even more oligopolistic it is paramount to watch out for truthful reporting. I stand by my idea of licensing BB10 to tablet manufacturers with minimum specs required for the device and furthermore I believe it would be successful and get BB10 out to a wider audience. And just so you know, for me this is just meant to be a fun intellectual exercise done in the appropriate forum; please don't misconstrue my intention or defense of my idea as a desire to troll or cause a ruckus.
    sk8er_tor and gokulesh like this.
    09-19-14 12:54 PM
  14. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The math is pretty simple. BB announced way back at the end of 2012 that they were looking for licensing partners for BB10. A year later, when they put the company up for sale, they paid a lot of money to bring in a consultant (Chase) to help them find areas of value, and again, they stated were open to any and all potential partnerships, which included licensing. And, yet, almost 2 years later, no one has licensed BB10.

    We surely all understand that Apple and Microsoft (formerly Nokia) aren't going to license BB10, but there are 180+ companies worldwide who make (official, Google-certified) Android devices, plus at least a dozen others who make AOSP variants of Android devices, any of whom could have chosen BB10 instead. None of them have. What more evidence do you need that BB wasn't able to find someone interested in licensing BB10? You're making an argument with zero evidence on your side, while dismissing plenty of the evidence that I've provided. Where's YOUR evidence to the contrary?

    I'll just point out, here, in case you aren't aware, that one of the reasons why potential licensees would choose against BB10 is because nearly all of them are Open Handset Alliance members (companies that make Google-Certified Android devices), and one of the rules of the OHA is that members cannot make devices that use non-certified Android implementations. In other words, unless BB removed the Android Player from BB10, OHA members would have to give up their ability to make Google-Certified Android devices, and lose access to Google Services, including the Play Store, in order to make BB10 devices. Given that Android has 80+% worldwide marketshare, compared to about 0.3% for BB10, those manufacturers seem to have done the math and concluded that BB10 wouldn't be profitable for them, given they would lose their Android business.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-19-14 01:52 PM
  15. stardomains's Avatar
    Still, your report regarding handset maker rejection of BB10 is hearsay and circumstantially-based.

    I do not take your word for it nor your extrapolation as true. I see no report confirming your take on it. Regardless, that was then, this is now.

    As imaginary CEO, I certainly would license it per my previous suggestion. I think it would be a great success. Obviously there may be reasons to not do this known to management, but as an intellectual exercise and BlackBerry fan I made the idea for fun.

    Posted via CB10
    09-19-14 05:31 PM
  16. Witmen's Avatar
    BlackBerry itself can't make a profit from selling BlackBerry 10 devices, so why would another manufacturer have any better luck?

    Yea, if you're BlackBerry's CEO, licensing out BB10 is a great idea that makes a ton of sense. If you're the CEO of a different company who is looking to sell mobile devices, paying a licensing fee for a mobile operating system that almost no one on this planet is interested in buying is a horrible idea.

    Licensing deals usually only work if both parties are benefiting from the deal. A deal like you have in mind would only benifit BlackBerry. The other company would be paying money to license a unwanted OS for their hardware. Who would be dumb enough to do that when there is Android or Windows Phone available, both of which are in higher demand and also have a better ecosystem than BB10? What would the other company have to gain by using BB10? Nothing! That is why no one has licensed BB10 yet.
    kbz1960 and JeepBB like this.
    09-19-14 06:08 PM
  17. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    ...and that's a common theme here in the Armchair CEO forum:

    "Other companies should give BB money because... it would be good for BB!" Nevermind that it would be bad for the other company.

    Again, stardomains is calling me out, despite ample evidence, because he "chooses not to believe it". Well, what would you believe? Does Heins need to post a YouTube video talking directly to you stating that no one wanted to license BB10? Why does the fact that no one has yet licensed it, despite BB's repeated claims that they're willing and anxious to license it, not give you enough evidence all by itself?

    Anyway, I'm done, unless you have some actual evidence to make your case. I haven't seen any so far.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-19-14 06:42 PM
  18. Jas00555's Avatar
    Honestly, your plan seems to neglect to mention one simple thing: why? Why would an OEM want to do this? What incentive would they have to do it? When they can sell an Android or Windows tablet without paying a licensing fee (well, OEMs still have to license Windows on 8+ inch devices that are over $300 and have Google set as the default search engine, but for the most part, free), why would they pay Blackberry for the right for THEM to do the heavy lifting? I get what you're thinking here. You're thinking that Samsung might take on the entire burden of making a tablet, but I ask again WHY? The Playbook didn't sell, why would a BB10 tablet sell? And why should Samsung take on all of the burden when they can take on less of a burden and make millions selling Ativs and Galaxy Tabs? It just doesn't make much of a financial sense to do it. Now, you can argue that "well, if Samsung markets it, it will sell", but again WHY would Samsung take that risk when they can make a safer bet of selling Windows and Android tablets, where they'll have a better ecosystem to sell to consumers, it will cost them less, and Google and Microsoft can take on some of the burden of stuff like support and marketing. Unless Blackberry plans to do all of this heavy lifting (which they can't), then you're not going to get anyone to sell these things.

    The only plausible thing that Blackberry could do that could move tablets would be to give away the OS for free, then hope that they can take some revenue from BBW. Even then, you won't get any "real" OEMs to make tablets because putting BB10 on a tablet will make them violate the terms of the OHA, so they wouldn't be allowed to sell "real" Android tablets anymore. The only partners that Blackberry could get would be these no-name brands that would basically take their old hardware and stick BB10 on it to diversify their portfolio, and even then, they'd be very very late to the tablet party and most, if not all, OEMs have decided that they're going to focus on Windows and Android, so I'm not sure they'll consider a third option. The only hope that Blackberry has is if they made an exclusive deal with a few third-tier OEMs that use AOSP (and therefore wouldn't be breaking the OHA) and sell cheapo BB10 tablets, or sell their own first-party hardware. Or I suppose both of those now that I think about it.

    Honestly though, these Blackberry tablets would be so late to the market, it wouldn't be funny. This is especially important since the tablet market is slowing down tremendously.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-19-14 11:21 PM
  19. early2bed's Avatar
    WebOS already tried it. They open sourced it. Don't spend all your imaginary CEO salary just yet.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-19-14 11:50 PM
  20. stardomains's Avatar
    Lots of pessimists out here.

    As for those who doubt a manufacturer would even bother. I'm not going to argue beyond this. That is their business. The market is flooded with Android tablets. Apple tablets are premium-priced. Indubitably there would be Asian manufacturers who, in this highly competitive marketplace, would want to diversify and differentiate rather than continue competing in a losing supply-flooded Android tablet market. They probably want more OS's to come about so that they can find new markets. $2 a copy for the OS is nominal. That's why I mentioned it before. I wouldn't charge a high price for it. Enough to interest them but not low enough that any 2-bit outfit that wouldn't make quality devices would go at it.

    And this has little to do with the PlayBook. That had a different OS. One of the main reasons I even brought this idea up is that the Asian manufacturers would keep the hardware specs and features in-line with Android, Windows, and Apple tablets. There wouldn't be a hardware-spec lag if these specialized companies are racing with the times. So right there we have eliminated anyone saying that the BB10 tablets specs are 4 months behind. They would be as current as the other three.

    I'm sure there is a market for BB10 tablets by consumers and enterprise. The whole purpose of my idea is that it would be a little-risk venture that would broaden BB10's adoption. Make sure the risk is on the manufacturers. I bet it isn't even that big a risk for these guys anyhow. They could probably load it onto existing Android tablet spec'd ones as it is and just limit production to a small batch to test demand and ramp it up as demand increases. That is their specialty. The PlayBook probably took so much time, effort, and money whereas this would lay most of that in the hands of manufacturers. On BlackBerry's end it would probably be some relatively minor software tweaking to the OS meant for tablet distribution and liasoning with the makers.
    09-20-14 11:54 AM
  21. early2bed's Avatar
    The idea that a tablet is just a big smartphone went away in 2010 after the iPad was launched. Tablets have come a long way since then. I seriously doubt that Blackberry could support a team to catch up with what Google, Microsoft and Apple are doing with tablets - especially for little or no revenue.

    Do you really think you can put something out there in a half-assed way against these giants? It makes no sense for a company like Blackberry to be stretched out like this so far outside its core business. You will see Blackberry exit mobile before getting anywhere near tablets.
    JeepBB likes this.
    09-20-14 12:27 PM
  22. gokulesh's Avatar
    +1. Too many pessimists. Rather than engaging in the intellectual exercise of how this could work. Naysayers out in full force.

    Posted via CB10
    09-20-14 12:52 PM
  23. app_Developer's Avatar
    BB10 has advantages for fans of the company. It allows BlackBerry fans to have a modern touch interface, and a runtime to access partial to complete functionality from a good selection of Android apps. It also included a very nicely locked down bootloader.

    Those are all great things, but it's very hard to imagine a Sony customer, for example, caring about much of that. It seems to me a Sony customer would care more about stronger/fuller compatibility with the larger Android ecosystem. Does a Sony customer really want to buy a new Android watch and then come on here hunting around for a way to make 50% of the features of her watch work? Is she going to figure out a way to patch her banking app so she can get push notifications of suspicious transactions?

    It's hard to make that case when these manufacturers can just ship Android instead for very little cost.

    Here is the question I would ask: if Chen walked into a meeting at Sony or HTC what would he offer? What would the pitch be for using this OS over Android?


    Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
    JeepBB and johnnyhead like this.
    09-20-14 01:49 PM
  24. Witmen's Avatar
    +1. Too many pessimists. Rather than engaging in the intellectual exercise of how this could work. Naysayers out in full force.

    Posted via CB10
    I think some people are just being realistic, while others aren't. You can call that being a pessimist or naysayer if you'd like though.
    JeepBB, kbz1960 and anon1727506 like this.
    09-20-14 04:25 PM
  25. stardomains's Avatar
    In an alternate imaginary other reality there is a man called Stevey Joobs who had a great idea for a device that was rectangular and sported a touchscreen and a mobile laptop-like slab also with a touchscreen. When he consulted his other imaginary management they said, no no, there is no existing market for that, don't do it. Well, Stevey got cowed by them and his company went broke not growing and creating. He then roamed the streets like Diogenes with a Moterola RAZeR in hand looking for quality honest management the rest of his imaginary life regretting not making those devices.
    09-20-14 04:48 PM
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