11-03-15 01:45 AM
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  1. RyanGermann's Avatar
    So you have basically said that you will tilt at any "negative" windmill whether or not you have reason on you side. That confirms my suspicion that you don't argue in good faith. Good luck with your crusade.
    As Princess Grace might say "I'm sorry you feel that way."
    Last edited by RyanGermann; 10-07-15 at 12:51 PM.
    10-07-15 12:38 PM
  2. BB Adict's Avatar
    The CURRENT problem is the abandonment of BB10 and it has more to do with CURRENT management than any other problems related to whatver led to market share losses (which IN THIS VERY THREAD I attribute to BlackBerry not respecting their loyal users)
    Like it or not, the abandonment of BB10 has to do in part with the current management's inability to gain traction even with a great OS. We are a toxic brand with a great product.

    The CEO's mandate is save the company. Investors want to see an increase on their investment. I don't know if Android will be the answer. We do know that BB10 right now only appeals to the Blackberry faithful.

    Over simplification or not, it is the reality. Deal with it or move on.

    Posted via CB10
    10-07-15 01:38 PM
  3. RyanGermann's Avatar
    We are a toxic brand with a great product.
    The Brand is toxic BECAUSE of mismanagement. The current managements attitude toward BB10 and BB10 enthusiasts is acting to make the Brand even MORE toxic. That's the point I'm making, and it's puzzling why the 'answer' is to "accept it". It's like answering the question "Explain the how cognitivie dissonance causes stress" with "Thursday".
    10-07-15 02:49 PM
  4. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The Brand is toxic BECAUSE of mismanagement. The current managements attitude toward BB10 and BB10 enthusiasts is acting to make the Brand even MORE toxic. That's the point I'm making, and it's puzzling why the 'answer' is to "accept it". It's like answering the question "Explain the how cognitivie dissonance causes stress" with "Thursday".
    Perhaps it is because you don't realize, or can't accept the possibility/probability that BB's management has already accepted the demise of BB10 and all of its associated components, and isn't concerned about its future because they've decided it has no future. If that's true, then it doesn't matter if they disappoint existing BB10 customers, because they've already decided that that's a hit they have to accept.

    You are upset that BB won't keep fighting for BB10, and I get that, but they have fought for BB10 since 2010, and it's been released for more than two-and-a-half years already, and it has done nothing but lose money, users, and corporate value since its introduction. As fantastic as it might be as a technology, it's been a complete failure - even a disaster - as a commercial product that is expected to make a profit for shareholders.

    In such situations, at some point, the management (the BoD more than the CEO) decide to pull the plug, accept the losses, and stop throwing good money after bad. I suspect that's already happened for BB, so if in fact the decision has already been made (and most of us seem to believe it has been), then there is little point in discussing why the fight doesn't continue - especially when victory clearly not possible regardless.

    BB is done fighting for BB10 and focused on fighting for BB "the company" now.
    10-07-15 04:05 PM
  5. KAM1138's Avatar
    The Brand is toxic BECAUSE of mismanagement. The current managements attitude toward BB10 and BB10 enthusiasts is acting to make the Brand even MORE toxic. That's the point I'm making, and it's puzzling why the 'answer' is to "accept it". It's like answering the question "Explain the how cognitivie dissonance causes stress" with "Thursday".
    This point bears repeating...apparently a lot because people refuse to believe it.
    I'm amazed at how people think that an excellent product just fails, as if the people managing that product are utterly helpless to promote and support it--which we darn well know hasn't been the case.

    So, anyone hoping that switching Operating systems is somehow going to change that had better brace for a shock.

    Back to the original question: How much contempt is fair? I am not sure people could muster enough contempt to match the incompetence that MADE BlackBerry the failure it has become.

    KAM
    RyanGermann likes this.
    10-07-15 04:08 PM
  6. RyanGermann's Avatar
    BB is done fighting for BB10 and focused on fighting for BB "the company" now.
    "Effing it up at every turn" and "screwing customers over" isn't "fighting"... it's "acting" or "flailing" or whatever... but you make the point about fighting: BlackBerry management quit fighting for their customers years ago, and shame on me for thinking that BlackBerry under Chen would be any different.

    But beware! With a new OS (Android) but the same management "philosophy" (is "screw you" a philosophy?), things won't be any different, which means no amount of innovating can save them: a clean sweep of the Board of Directors and executive team would be required, but the investors ARE the Board, so, just.... ewwww. Someone said "the board has to go" years ago and I didn't necessarily buy into it then, but I sure do now.

    KAM1138's post sums up this scintillating and yet sadly pointless attempt at customer advocacy I started with that provocative thread title all those long days ago, so thanks, and please don't forget to turn off the lights if you're the last one to leave.
    10-07-15 04:13 PM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    Perhaps it is because you don't realize, or can't accept the possibility/probability that BB's management has already accepted the demise of BB10 and all of its associated components, and isn't concerned about its future because they've decided it has no future. If that's true, then it doesn't matter if they disappoint existing BB10 customers, because they've already decided that that's a hit they have to accept.

    You are upset that BB won't keep fighting for BB10, and I get that, but they have fought for BB10 since 2010, and it's been released for more than two-and-a-half years already, and it has done nothing but lose money, users, and corporate value since its introduction. As fantastic as it might be as a technology, it's been a complete failure - even a disaster - as a commercial product that is expected to make a profit for shareholders.

    In such situations, at some point, the management (the BoD more than the CEO) decide to pull the plug, accept the losses, and stop throwing good money after bad. I suspect that's already happened for BB, so if in fact the decision has already been made (and most of us seem to believe it has been), then there is little point in discussing why the fight doesn't continue - especially when victory clearly not possible regardless.

    BB is done fighting for BB10 and focused on fighting for BB "the company" now.
    Generally, I think you are right, with one exception: That is that you seem to think that BB10 is the reason for the failure, rather than a casualty of the actual failure--that of management. The TECHNOLOGY isn't the failure--it works. The incompetence that hasn't been able to leverage this "fantastic" technology into a financial success is the problem.

    I don't believe for a second that there is any hard reason why BB10 as a platform failed--meaning, there is nothing that could not be overcome technically to allow it to do everything Android could do and more. People openly admit that the failure is lack of App support--not of the underlying OS. We know for a fact that Software CAN be developed for any platform, so the only reason this didn't happen is that BlackBerry management failed to make the case, or spend the resources to insure that it DID happen.

    I think you're right about where we are, but bad decisions and failures LED us here. The Technology didn't fail the company, the Company failed the Technology.

    KAM
    10-07-15 04:16 PM
  8. KAM1138's Avatar
    Like it or not, the abandonment of BB10 has to do in part with the current management's inability to gain traction even with a great OS. We are a toxic brand with a great product.

    The CEO's mandate is save the company. Investors want to see an increase on their investment. I don't know if Android will be the answer. We do know that BB10 right now only appeals to the Blackberry faithful.

    Over simplification or not, it is the reality. Deal with it or move on.
    Posted via CB10
    Well, here's the problem (I'm a stockholder BTW). This IS dealing with it, because problems don't get solved until they are properly identified, which enables a solution. It seems that the sum-total of BlackBerry's current strategy is to "do what the other guys are doing." That and pinching pennies.

    That last part is not inherently wrong, but it is if you have that as a GOAL rather than a tactic. SPENDING money correctly and wisely is ever bit as important as saving money. As an investor, I am not giving them my money so they can sit on cash--I expect to utilize that very powerful tool to make MORE money. They sure as hell aren't doing that.

    I am not sure if Chen thinks he can corner the market on security with various acquisitions, while fiddling around in dangerous (Android) territory. Not sure if that will work out or not, but ONE breach will be more than enough for the hounds to tear the frail carcass of BlackBerry (best in security) to pieces. If that happens, the failure will be complete.

    So, no, I'm not "moving on" following Chen down a path when I've seen no sign that he's competent enough to lead this company to any sort of substantial recovery. I don't think he has a plan and if he does, I have zero confidence in his ability to execute it.

    KAM
    10-07-15 04:37 PM
  9. app_Developer's Avatar
    Generally, I think you are right, with one exception: That is that you seem to think that BB10 is the reason for the failure, rather than a casualty of the actual failure--that of management. The TECHNOLOGY isn't the failure--it works. The incompetence that hasn't been able to leverage this "fantastic" technology into a financial success is the problem.
    So let me echo/mirror that. I generally agree with you except for 2 exceptions. I think the QNX team's lack of mobile experience led to two major flaws in BB10:

    1. The process/memory model is fundamentally flawed and rather naive on mobile devices.

    2. I think using a real time scheduler on devices with small battery is a poor idea. Too many potential optimizations left on the table.

    I think Apple and Google (and Palm) made smarter decisions on these two issues.
    Troy Tiscareno likes this.
    10-07-15 07:50 PM
  10. KAM1138's Avatar
    So let me echo/mirror that. I generally agree with you except for 2 exceptions. I think the QNX team's lack of mobile experience led to two major flaws in BB10:

    1. The process/memory model is fundamentally flawed and rather naive on mobile devices.

    2. I think using a real time scheduler on devices with small battery is a poor idea. Too many potential optimizations left on the table.

    I think Apple and Google (and Palm) made smarter decisions on these two issues.
    I'll take your word on this. I can't speak to those details.

    KAM
    10-07-15 10:15 PM
  11. RyanGermann's Avatar
    The C|Net article leads me to believe (given that there is no room left for "benefit of the doubt" any more) that there was effort to undermine the success BB10 from the outset of Ron Louk's hiring, but I know he didn't go rogue: he got management on board with his plans, and it does explain a lot of what was done or, more aptly, what wasn't done to support BB10.

    Inside BlackBerry's last-ditch plan to win you back with Android - CNET

    ...and some called us "paranoid".
    11-02-15 05:41 PM
  12. app_Developer's Avatar
    Very interesting article. Let's see if Louks got it right. I think he might have.

    I think this is further indication that the only reason Dr. Chen hasn't called the BB10 patient dead yet is because he has to keep selling BB10 phones to balance the books. It truly is Weekend at Bernie's.
    11-02-15 06:24 PM
  13. TGR1's Avatar
    I'd bet a crowdfunding campaign wouldn't raise more than $200k. Seriously. People will quickly learn to accept that BB10 is winding down.


    Sent from my iPhone 6S using Tapatalk
    Has any crowd funding raised $20 million? That's a decent chunk of change.

    Personally, I would suggest a suite of charities to contribute to rather than to a publicly traded large company that's really not all that interested in taking on the job being funded.
    11-02-15 08:10 PM
  14. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    Has any crowd funding raised $20 million? That's a decent chunk of change.

    Personally, I would suggest a suite of charities to contribute to rather than to a publicly traded large company that's really not all that interested in taking on the job being funded.
    yes https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_o...nding_projects
    TGR1 likes this.
    11-02-15 08:12 PM
  15. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    That's nearly $500.00 per person for a phone that was not spectacular iirc. That doesn't sound impossible.
    That phone WAS spectacular. :-D

    128GB, sapphire glass, quadcore or octocore CPU, 4GB RAM, runnings desktop Linux apps...

    That's still top notch specs, even in late 2015.

    (edit iirc I paid over $800 US, but got refunded

     Priv New (Chendroid) World...? :-| 
    11-03-15 12:16 AM
  16. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    That phone WAS spectacular. :-D

    128GB, sapphire glass, quadcore or octocore CPU, 4GB RAM, runnings desktop Linux apps...

    That's still top notch specs, even in late 2015.

    (edit iirc I paid over $800 US, but got refunded

     Priv New (Chendroid) World...? :-| 
    My mistake. Memory isn't what it used to be.
    Prem WatsApp likes this.
    11-03-15 01:45 AM
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