[markmall]

Chen savings BlackBerry? Lol right. More like tanking it well.
Despite the companies Past CHEN further added to the ridiculous nonsense that helped drive this company almost into the ground.
Chen had major opportunities to help secure BB10 as a strong 3rd place WW Competitor, but failed miserably because he CHEAPed out on Advertising and BB10 Dev Support.
Passport was plastered all over the place. Highly unique intuitive mobile OS that was beyond this world. And he Screwed that up too.

Thank you! Passport was being talked about all over the place by regular people using iPhones. And it actually is a compelling device for older people that don't need Snapchat, etc. The Priv(vy) is not a compelling device. Chen cheaped out on advertising on the Passport, as you say.

But Chen's vision was selling software to nerdy engineer types. That's not working out so great. Comparing BBRY to IBM is ludicrous. IBM had plenty of revenue streams and its Thinkpad line was a blip on its radar screen. This is more like McDonald's deciding its going to sell restaurant logistical software and scrap all its stores because it can't get the menu right.

[markmall]

I love comments like this: "Android Smartphones were a commodity item, the Z3 showed him that BlackBerry can't compete on hardware and price."

Do anyone really believe that anyone knew that the Z3 existed? Why would anyone believe that? There is no advertising, there is no marketing at cell phone stores -- there is nothing. Many years ago, Apple set up its stores to improve its visibility to the public. But at least it had some presence in the marketplace. Blackberry had none with its BB10 phones.

This is why we will never know if BB10 could have succeeded. Success only would have been possible with the right marketing strategy and investment.

[BB Adict]

It's unfortunate that BlackBerry Ltd has been run by the wrong people in the last 8 years, history shows us that the company needs a rotation of CEO after every 4 years, to allow a new guy to come in and shake things up and bring a new strategy for the company's future, John Chen did a great job on stopping BlackBerry from bleeding to death in his first 3 years, but now when he is asked, he has no solid plan for the future, I think it's time for Chen to step out and let someone else who has a strong hold on marketing to come in and take BlackBerry into a new direction..

Posted via CB10

At last check, you are not on the board at Blackberry. Guess what? The current board still approves of his running the company.

Posted via CB10

[togarika]

BlackBerry problems are more than just the CEO. I think the period it had 2 CEOs has come back to haunt it. The divisions it must have caused within the company must still be there because it acts as if it's a number of different companies. It's strategies don't seem to coalesce. BlackBerry need a change of ownership and a revamp of the board of directors

BB10 or Nothing! BlackBerry Forever!

[JulesDB]

@JulesDB, the actions that CEO John Chen has taken since being brought on board and the statement that he has made all point to growing BlackBerry's Software and services Division

In a year it's revenue has grown 104%, as mentioned in BlackBerry's last ER. He also achieved the target of $500 million in software and services revenue.

So there MUST to be a plan: moving personnel from on side to the other of the company it's not. You have to actually invent something new and sell it because otherwise going software it's just a choice.

It's clear that he didn't have a plan for hardware but inventing something new could be helpful: I often said that since BlackBerry it's the leader in automotive, it could merge QNX and Smartphone division to create the smartphone that integrate in car's dashboard

(imagine a Passport that clicks and connects in the dashboard and then actually sold with the car).
But nothing comes from Waterloo's "intelligence"...

The other point is that there is an annual shareholders meeting where the CEO outlines his vision for the company. The shareholders have the option to either approve or not to approve his tenure as CEO and they have unanimously approved him. This means that even though you may disagree with his vision, the majority of the shareholders agree with him.

Of course, Prem Watsa and his found it's nearly the majority of BB shareholder, and they couldn't be agree more with Chen.

[Invictus0]

I love comments like this: "Android Smartphones were a commodity item, the Z3 showed him that BlackBerry can't compete on hardware and price."

Do anyone really believe that anyone knew that the Z3 existed? Why would anyone believe that? There is no advertising, there is no marketing at cell phone stores -- there is nothing. Many years ago, Apple set up its stores to improve its visibility to the public. But at least it had some presence in the marketplace. Blackberry had none with its BB10 phones.

This is why we will never know if BB10 could have succeeded. Success only would have been possible with the right marketing strategy and investment.

The Z3 was intended for emerging markets, which is also where marketing for the device occurred. The BlackBerry blog has a good round up of some of their launch events and retail partnerships,

BlackBerry Z3 | Inside BlackBerry

BlackBerry had branded stores and licensed support centers in many parts of the world, I don't know how many are still open but there are articles on CrackBerry about them.

More good news from Africa - RIM opens a new BlackBerry retail store in Nigeria | CrackBerry.com

The new BlackBerry Retail Store is now officially open in Dubai | CrackBerry.com

First BlackBerry retail store opens in China | CrackBerry.com

They even had them in the US at one point,

RIM goes it alone with new BlackBerry store - Technology & Science - CBC News

[JeepBB]

The Z3 was intended for emerging markets, which is also where marketing for the device occurred. The BlackBerry blog has a good round up of some of their launch events and retail partnerships,

BlackBerry Z3 | Inside BlackBerry

BlackBerry had branded stores and licensed support centers in many parts of the world, I don't know how many are still open but there are articles on CrackBerry about them.

More good news from Africa - RIM opens a new BlackBerry retail store in Nigeria | CrackBerry.com

The new BlackBerry Retail Store is now officially open in Dubai | CrackBerry.com

First BlackBerry retail store opens in China | CrackBerry.com

They even had them in the US at one point,

RIM goes it alone with new BlackBerry store - Technology & Science - CBC News

Shuuushhhh!

Don't you know it's well-accepted as fact that the only reason BB10 failed was the lack of marketing!

Yeah, here in the UK there was tonnes of marketing around the time of BB10's launch too. Loads of advertising, generally positive press comment and reviews, carrier support and in-store advertising and promotion, special sales events, etc, etc.

Nobody in the UK, who was even remotely interested in "tech", could possibly have been unaware that BB had new phones running a new OS.

The thing is that you are dealing with people here on CB who swear that BB10 is the best OS evaaaaar!!!

So, when reality hits (though I still see threads from those who even now believe that BB10 can bounce back!) - that BB10 has been a dismal failure with pitiful uptake, what can possibly be the reason? It can't be that BB10 provided no compelling reason for users of other phones to switch to BB10 because of course BB10 is the best OS evaaaaar!!!

So, BB10 can't have failed because not enough people wanted what it offered - it's the best OS evaaaaar!!! - so it must have failed for some other reason. "Marketing" is always the #1 reason chosen, with "Global Conspiracy" a close #2. Neither Marketing nor Conspiracy are the true reasons BB10 failed, which is because it's reputation was destroyed from the start by being incomplete and buggy, and in never having nor developed an App ecosystem, but nobody who believes it was the best OS evaaaaar!!! will ever accept that "the world" didn't see how it was better than iOS or Android.

Years from now folk here will still be posting that BB10 failed because of marketing and because "the Man" stopped it from being a success... and it will still be untrue.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Shuuushhhh!

Don't you know it's well-accepted as fact that the only reason BB10 failed was the lack of marketing!

Yeah, here in the UK there was tonnes of marketing around the time of BB10's launch too. Loads of advertising, generally positive press comment and reviews, carrier support and in-store advertising and promotion, special sales events, etc, etc.

Nobody in the UK, who was even remotely interested in "tech", could possibly have been unaware that BB had new phones running a new OS.

The thing is that you are dealing with people here on CB who swear that BB10 is the best OS evaaaaar!!!

So, when reality hits (though I still see threads from those who even now believe that BB10 can bounce back!) - that BB10 has been a dismal failure with pitiful uptake, what can possibly be the reason? It can't be that BB10 provided no compelling reason for users of other phones to switch to BB10 because of course BB10 is the best OS evaaaaar!!!

So, BB10 can't have failed because not enough people wanted what it offered - it's the best OS evaaaaar!!! - so it must have failed for some other reason. "Marketing" is always the #1 reason chosen, with "Global Conspiracy" a close #2. Neither Marketing nor Conspiracy are the true reasons BB10 failed, which is because it's reputation was destroyed from the start by being incomplete and buggy, and in never having nor developed an App ecosystem, but nobody who believes it was the best OS evaaaaar!!! will ever accept that "the world" didn't see how it was better than iOS or Android.

Years from now folk here will still be posting that BB10 failed because of marketing and because "the Man" stopped it from being a success... and it will still be untrue.

They just needed to release the Z50 super all touch... then people would have returned to BlackBerry!



Really wish Kevin would come back and do a "why BB10 failed" post that Bla1ze could sticky somewhere.

I agree they did market in the beginning. But it's like baking a cake, maybe a "little" more sugar (marketing) could have helped. But it you forgot the oil (great hardware) and forgot the eggs (bug free OS) and forgot the flour (App Ecosystem)... you aren't going to bake a cake. BB10 failed for those and even a number of other reasons, mostly it was just six years too late.

What some here don't understand it Chen wasn't hired to save BB10, he was hired to find a way to keep Fairfax and PW from losing all they had invested in BB. As it stand it might be years before they reach breakeven... but at least there's a chance now.

[deercreekmichael]

Twenty years ago, an almost bankrupt Apple Computers, with a small but loyal fan base, started one of the biggest comebacks in corporate history. Never say never. XD

[anon(6038817)]

Twenty years ago, an almost bankrupt Apple Computers, with a small but loyal fan base, started one of the biggest comebacks in corporate history. Never say never. XD

I think he's done a remarkable job under the circumstances, but John Chen is no Steve Jobs.

[Dunt Dunt Dunt]

Twenty years ago, an almost bankrupt Apple Computers, with a small but loyal fan base, started one of the biggest comebacks in corporate history. Never say never. XD

But not in computers.... Jobs did stabilize the company with the iMac. But the growth came from another direction, one that at the time no one had any idea would be such a hit with consumers... MP3 and a device to play them. But Jobs whole focus was alway about the user experience, how can we make it better and can we take existing technology and improve it.

BlackBerry has always focused on security and what they taught was best... Mike and Jim had their five year plan. Jobs knew the market changed too quickly in technology to even bother with such a long term business strategy.

[markmall]

They just needed to release the Z50 super all touch... then people would have returned to BlackBerry!



Really wish Kevin would come back and do a "why BB10 failed" post that Bla1ze could sticky somewhere.

I agree they did market in the beginning. But it's like baking a cake, maybe a "little" more sugar (marketing) could have helped. But it you forgot the oil (great hardware) and forgot the eggs (bug free OS) and forgot the flour (App Ecosystem)... you aren't going to bake a cake. BB10 failed for those and even a number of other reasons, mostly it was just six years too late.

What some here don't understand it Chen wasn't hired to save BB10, he was hired to find a way to keep Fairfax and PW from losing all they had invested in BB. As it stand it might be years before they reach breakeven... but at least there's a chance now.

Just because there was <i>some</i> marketing in tiny backwaters like merry old England or swampy slums like Indonesia does not mean that Blackberry properly marketing its devices in its key North American market.

I restate my challenge: if the marketing was adequate then do a survey of who knows about BB10 and the Hub. At least in the U.S., you could spend the whole day without a single person knowing about them.

[kvndoom]

Just because there was <i>some</i> marketing in tiny backwaters like merry old England or swampy slums like Indonesia does not mean that Blackberry properly marketing its devices in its key North American market.

I restate my challenge: if the marketing was adequate then do a survey of who knows about BB10 and the Hub. At least in the U.S., you could spend the whole day without a single person knowing about them.

You really enjoy belittling others don't you? WTF. Oh well, enjoy your smug superiority with your dead OS while the rest of the petty folks of the world move on. I can't wait to read this forum in 4 or 5 years, when the browser won't render Google properly, the mighty Snapdragon S4 is 10 years old, and not even S4BB is making apps anymore. Folks like you will still be trying to evangelize the superiority of BB10, and how they just need to make that Z50 and advertise the hell out of it and their 0.00000000000000000000000000023% of the market will turn around overnight!

[Invictus0]

But not in computers.... Jobs did stabilize the company with the iMac. But the growth came from another direction

Ironically, Chen's trying to do something similar with hardware and software.

Just because there was <i>some</i> marketing in tiny backwaters like merry old England or swampy slums like Indonesia does not mean that Blackberry properly marketing its devices in its key North American market.

I restate my challenge: if the marketing was adequate then do a survey of who knows about BB10 and the Hub. At least in the U.S., you could spend the whole day without a single person knowing about them.

A survey probably wouldn't do much good now but almost every BB10 ad from 2013 shows off the hub via its swipe gesture, it was basically a central (no pun intended) theme in their marketing efforts.





BlackBerry Z10 ads hit web and print | CrackBerry.com

http://forums.crackberry.com/blackbe...subway-828806/

etc

[JeepBB]

Just because there was <i>some</i> marketing in tiny backwaters like merry old England or swampy slums like Indonesia does not mean that Blackberry properly marketing its devices in its key North American market.

I restate my challenge: if the marketing was adequate then do a survey of who knows about BB10 and the Hub. At least in the U.S., you could spend the whole day without a single person knowing about them.

I'll admit that your post did make me chuckle. It's rare to see such a display of breathtaking arrogance, and I work in a business famed for being full of patronising and superior people. Well done!

I believe that you've confused the UK with Game of Thrones. We tend to wear more conventional clothing here in the UK, and there are fewer dragons, but I can see why you might be confused.

Actually, the reason that BB marketed BB10 so heavily in the UK and in Indonesia (presumably only in the less swampy areas) is because the UK and Indonesia were probably the biggest remaining markets for BB and likely to be fertile ground for BB10 sales. Which is why the Z10 was here several months before it got to the USA, and why the Z3 was launched in Indonesia.

Presumably BB management understood where their strongest markets were when choosing where to launch.

Which brings me neatly to myth #3. That BB10 would have succeeded if BB management hadn't been incompetent. And it must have been incompetent or how else could the best OS evaaaaar!!! have failed?

[markmall]

I'll admit that your post did make me chuckle. It's rare to see such a display of breathtaking arrogance, and I work in a business famed for being full of patronising and superior people. Well done!

I believe that you've confused the UK with Game of Thrones. We tend to wear more conventional clothing here in the UK, and there are fewer dragons, but I can see why you might be confused.

Actually, the reason that BB marketed BB10 so heavily in the UK and in Indonesia (presumably only in the less swampy areas) is because the UK and Indonesia were probably the biggest remaining markets for BB and likely to be fertile ground for BB10 sales. Which is why the Z10 was here several months before it got to the USA, and why the Z3 was launched in Indonesia.

Presumably BB management understood where their strongest markets were when choosing where to launch.

Which brings me neatly to myth #3. That BB10 would have succeeded if BB management hadn't been incompetent. And it must have been incompetent or how else could the best OS evaaaaar!!! have failed?

There are many reasons why it might have failed. My point is that it had no chance of not failing. No consumer electronics product can ever succeed if people do not know that it is for sale and what it does differently.

I was on a first date tonight with a gorgeous American girl (at 5'11" she would tower over you pommies). When I pulled out my Passport, she freaked. "That is the most remarkable phone I have ever seen. What is it?" (This is near verbatim.) When I told her it is a Blackberry, she said, "I used to use Blackberrys but I never saw anything like that."

I started to explain how wonderful the phone and the "new" BB OS is, but I stopped myself. What is the point? The company already quit.

[JeepBB]

There are many reasons why it might have failed. My point is that it had no chance of not failing. No consumer electronics product can ever succeed if people do not know that it is for sale and what it does differently.

I was on a first date tonight with a gorgeous American girl (at 5'11" she would tower over you pommies). When I pulled out my Passport, she freaked. "That is the most remarkable phone I have ever seen. What is it?" (This is near verbatim.) When I told her it is a Blackberry, she said, "I used to use Blackberrys but I never saw anything like that."

I started to explain how wonderful the phone and the "new" BB OS is, but I stopped myself. What is the point? The company already quit.

You seem to exist in a fantasy world. The UK isn't Oz either - there are few wizards and I've certainly never seen anyone I would describe as a Munchkin. Most of us are of average height.

I'm glad your first-date went well. I'm assuming you have many first-dates.

The only sliver of reality in your many posts is where you seem to accept that BB10 is dead. Well done, try to remain rooted in this reality.

[thurask]

Just because there was <i>some</i> marketing in tiny backwaters like merry old England or swampy slums like Indonesia does not mean that Blackberry properly marketing its devices in its key North American market.

What about this little hick town?

[Ronindan]

There are many reasons why it might have failed. My point is that it had no chance of not failing. No consumer electronics product can ever succeed if people do not know that it is for sale and what it does differently.

I was on a first date tonight with a gorgeous American girl (at 5'11" she would tower over you pommies). When I pulled out my Passport, she freaked. "That is the most remarkable phone I have ever seen. What is it?" (This is near verbatim.) When I told her it is a Blackberry, she said, "I used to use Blackberrys but I never saw anything like that."

I started to explain how wonderful the phone and the "new" BB OS is, but I stopped myself. What is the point? The company already quit.

That's a weak game. I pull out my nexus 6p and women are all over me. Can't get much done in the office because this keeps happening. Which I guess is why us non-BB users are so unproductive. "tool not toys" right.

only in crackberry

[Uzi]

That's a weak game. I pull out my nexus 6p and women are all over me. Can't get much done in the office because this keeps happening. Which I guess is why us non-BB users are so unproductive. "tool not toys" right.

only in crackberry

6p TWSS!

[Elephant_Canyon]

What about this little hick town?

The little hick town of Sideways Manhattan?

[Superdupont 2_0]

Shuuushhhh!
Don't you know it's well-accepted as fact that the only reason BB10 failed was the lack of marketing!

Yeah, here in the UK there was tonnes of marketing around the time of BB10's launch too. Loads of advertising, generally positive press comment and reviews, carrier support and in-store advertising and promotion, special sales events, etc, etc.

Nobody in the UK, who was even remotely interested in "tech", could possibly have been unaware that BB had new phones running a new OS.

But there is a huge grain of truth in it.
People who are much more than remotely interested in tech keep telling me things like “This is a BlackBerry?”... they never had it in their hands, because *they already know* BlackBerry devices work only with BIS subscription, have a terrible counter-intuitive menu and no front camera.

The thing is that you are dealing with people here on CB who swear that BB10 is the best OS evaaaaar!!!

No matter what people say about BB10, it is indeed the best OS evaaaaaar!
It's a fact, like, gravity is a fact.
You can ignore gravity, but you can't escape from it.

[…]
So, BB10 can't have failed because not enough people wanted what it offered - it's the best OS evaaaaar!!! - so it must have failed for some other reason. "Marketing" is always the #1 reason chosen, with "Global Conspiracy" a close #2. Neither Marketing nor Conspiracy are the true reasons BB10 failed, which is because it's reputation was destroyed from the start by being incomplete and buggy, and in never having nor developed an App ecosystem, but nobody who believes it was the best OS evaaaaar!!! will ever accept that "the world" didn't see how it was better than iOS or Android.

Interestingly though, there are numerous alternative Android appstores in the internets, so technically even without Google Play there is a big app ecosystem available for BB10.

Look here https://www.dmoz.org/Computers/Softw...ndroid/Markets

It is just an interesting fact, we all have learned about the mobile markets:
If you don’t have your own app store pre-installed on the phone, sales reps will not recommend/promote your phone and even tech-savvy consumers will not buy it.

I really doubt there is an app gap for the majority of the users.
Perhaps 1 billion users out here would be happy with BB10.
Of course some apps are not available in “BlackBerry World”, but they are available as apks in alternative Android app stores.
However, interestingly that doesn’t count as “available app ecosystem”.

What really makes me wonder is why BlackBerry never included apks into their own app store, but signed a deal with Amazon.

[nt300]

I'll admit that your post did make me chuckle. It's rare to see such a display of breathtaking arrogance, and I work in a business famed for being full of patronising and superior people. Well done!

I believe that you've confused the UK with Game of Thrones. We tend to wear more conventional clothing here in the UK, and there are fewer dragons, but I can see why you might be confused.

Actually, the reason that BB marketed BB10 so heavily in the UK and in Indonesia (presumably only in the less swampy areas) is because the UK and Indonesia were probably the biggest remaining markets for BB and likely to be fertile ground for BB10 sales. Which is why the Z10 was here several months before it got to the USA, and why the Z3 was launched in Indonesia.

Presumably BB management understood where their strongest markets were when choosing where to launch.

Which brings me neatly to myth #3. That BB10 would have succeeded if BB management hadn't been incompetent. And it must have been incompetent or how else could the best OS evaaaaar!!! have failed?

Despite BB10 being launched years late, when it was launched, it was not a strong launch. BlackBerry management messed it up quite bad. The Z10 and Q10 should have been released side by side. The Z30 should have been held off for the Quad-Core CPU, not the Dual Core it came with. That would have presented into a good upgrade path for Z10 owners for example.

The Marketing was a Miss on all accounts. Unfortunately, they should have asked Apple for help LOL
Both the Z10 and Q10 were over priced at launch. I can care less how much it cost them to make those phones, they were based on 2012 Hardware Spec's. Too Expensive.

1st Mistake, NOT Offering Incentives - FOR all BBOS customers upgrade to BB10 via Z10/Q10 major Incentives.
2nd Mistake, BES10 not supporting BBOS. LOL, that was Foolith at best. Which forced companies to look elsewhere, to Android and iOS.
3rd Mistake, Effective Marketing & Carrier Support.
4th Mistake, App Ecosystem. Should have sponsored or offered to Pay for the Development of KEY Apps that are a MUST. Eg: Netflix, Instagram, Snap etc., which should have been Pre-Installed from the GetGO.

etc., etc., etc., you get the idea. Is it too late for BB10? Absolutely Not. Because there still remains 10M to 25M BBOS users World Wide, that seem to refuse to upgrade. BB10 has a strong World Wide Niche that find the Platform Refreshing versus the OLD Clumpy Android and iOS.

On a side note, Chen, he failed Customers by offering no incentives to upgrade to Passport and overpriced Classic, again with 2012 specs. The Classic should have been Marketed as a Direct Replacement Device for the BOLD and all other BBOS phones out, and he should have given people Mass incentives to upgrade. Such as $250 - $300 off when you replace your old BBOS for a Classic. BBRY's already losing money on hardware, due to Garbage Marketing. Increase device Market Share and lose money is better than lose money and decline your Market Share.

Bla Bla Bla. you get my point.

[Elephant_Canyon]

No matter what people say about BB10, it is indeed the best OS evaaaaaar!
It's a fact, like, gravity is a fact.
You can ignore gravity, but you can't escape from it.

I think you need to learn the difference between "fact" and "opinion."

What you think is the best OS is not, in fact, a fact. It your opinion.

[Denise in Los Angeles]

No more BB10 devices - FACT. Chen is still CEO - FACT.