1. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    I am a BB10 fanboy since I bought my first Q5, but over time I got the impression that the BlackBerry business strategy is not radical enough to reach a broader audience.

    Before I continue, I want say that this post will not become any CEO bashing, I trust the higher management had their reasons to act as they did.

    Now, in a nutshell: I like the product BB10, but I am not sure whether I like he company BlackBerry.

    BB10 itself is a radical, straightforward OS.
    It is built with security in mind, the UI is clean, you really never need buttons, it offers a well-thought-out straightforward user experience.
    BB10 is on many levels radically different than other OSes, but in the best possible way.
    The people who developed BB10, they had a vision and created something not only new or unique, but also "better" (better security, better user experience).

    However, the business strategy of BlackBerry is exactly the opposite, it is straight-backwards to the "good old days", it is totally watering people's perception of BB10 (assuming there is any).

    I want to give some examples:

    1) Post-Snowden, BlackBerry's competitor SilentCircle moved their headquarters to Switzerland. That is a radical step, but it shows the audience that SilentCircle has a vision and that they will fight to defend their vision.

    2) Post-Snowden, Apple's Tim Cook reached an all-time record in the discipline "How to say unmistakably 'No' without using the f-word". I'm sure his message reached the audience.

    3) Jolla has successfully sold their complete batch of Sailfish 2.0 tablets. Jolla has a radical public relation strategy that is way more open to the audience than BlackBerry.

    4) Want to protect your BBM chats and enjoy more privacy? Well, you have to sign up for BBM Protected with your company (oh, you don't have a company? Really? Well, then,... have you ever heard about WhatsApp, Threema or iMessage?)

    IMHO, BB10 itself has become a mature OS, BlackBerry did a great job here, but in the hands of a company that acts like just another branch office of the AWSS (Alliance of Western Secret Services, I just invented the word, don't google it) the OS can't become a success.

    It is obviously not enough to promote a smartphone to some selected enterprise and governments, you have to reach a much broader audience with an authentic and radical business strategy and a product that is more secure then the competition (even without BES!!).

    I do think that BlackBerry should spin-off the BB10 business, make it largely open-source similarily to Jolla, go to Switzerland like SilentCircle, cooperate with other radicals and leave this business to authentic management, characters like Tim Cook or Philip Zimmermann.

    Shareholders can still benefit from the spin-off that makes BB10 profitable and from the fact that BlackBerry MDM solution fits best with BB10.
    JaideepJani likes this.
    10-18-15 01:47 PM
  2. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Cheers, but hey... corporate thinking is not to protect us, but make money. I see your perspective and would fully support moves like these, but it's highly unlikely...

    Sorry, that's from Prem WA who's normally a fair optimist... in a lot of things... :-))))



      Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)  
    10-18-15 06:07 PM
  3. skibnik's Avatar
    Op I agree radical measures are needed for Blackberry to survive, and it is moving over to Android with plans to eventually drop BB10 development. This will entail the taking of all the best parts of BB10 (security, hub, keyboard, etc) and incorporating them into Android. Even Chen admitted to this in his interview with Code/Mobile.
    Remember BB10 is just an OS that Blackberry developed not the company itself. lol
    10-18-15 08:29 PM
  4. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    Op I agree radical measures are needed for Blackberry to survive, and it is moving over to Android with plans to eventually drop BB10 development. This will entail the taking of all the best parts of BB10 (security, hub, keyboard, etc) and incorporating them into Android. Even Chen admitted to this in his interview with Code/Mobile.
    Remember BB10 is just an OS that Blackberry developed not the company itself. lol
    But home-made and 100 % fully controlled. Can't say that about Android... :-|

      Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)  
    10-18-15 08:46 PM
  5. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Cheers, but hey... corporate thinking is not to protect us, but make money. I see your perspective and would fully support moves like these... •

    Hi Prem, well, to be clear: I am neither a communist nor sentimental.
    I am only suggesting a spin-off, actually to start making money with BB10.

    I believe that's what you normally do, when a good product does no longer fit well with the rest of your business.
    But if they would spin-off BB10, the new company shouldn't be BlackBerry clone, that would be a DOA strategy, a BlackBerry clone wouldn't help anyone (neither the shareholders nor the employees).
    10-19-15 04:19 AM
  6. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    Op I agree radical measures are needed for Blackberry to survive, and it is moving over to Android with plans to eventually drop BB10 development. l
    I (finally) agree that Android is a reasonable strategic move for BlackBerry and I further agree to basically everything JC said in this context.
    However, if you don't want to maintain to OSes, that doesn't mean you have to drop one.
    You can spin-off with a completely new brand/marketing strategy.

    When I compare the image of BlackBerry in the public with the image of Apple, SilentCircle or Jolla, then I come to the conclusion that the BlackBerry image is watered, because their corporate philosophy dictactes to be "grey".
    And being "grey" isn't a big help, when you have to differentiate your products from competition.

    That's not a "bad" thing, but typically a situation when you should spin-off.
    10-19-15 04:37 AM
  7. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    BB isn't going to spin off BB10 because BB10 is built on the code of QNX - a product that is doing quite well on its own, though it isn't currently a huge revenue generator relative to something like smartphones. QNX is central to BB's future plans of "securing the IoT (Internet of Things)." Spinning off BB10 would essentially be giving a company that isn't BB access to QNX's source code, and that's both a security risk and a dumb business decision (giving away one of your key products for the future).

    So, don't hold your breath for this to happen, because it isn't gonna happen.
    Laura Knotek, JeepBB and cgk like this.
    10-19-15 12:41 PM
  8. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    BB isn't going to spin off BB10 because BB10 is built on the code of QNX - a product that is doing quite well on its own, though it isn't currently a huge revenue generator relative to something like smartphones. QNX is central to BB's future plans of "securing the IoT (Internet of Things)." Spinning off BB10 would essentially be giving a company that isn't BB access to QNX's source code, and that's both
    a security risk and a dumb business decision (giving away one of your key products for the future).

    So, don't hold your breath for this to happen, because it isn't gonna happen.

    Afaik, BlackBerry shareholders will have the right to obtain shares of the spin-off company, so the ownership doesn't have to change signifcantly.
    The rest is just a formal excercise on how BlackBerry and the new BB10 company will cooperate about the usage of QNX, and here I would expect that there is a licensing model available.

    I could be wrong, as I have no specific insights of this industry or QNX and BB10, but normally it shouldn't be rocket science.
    10-19-15 12:55 PM
  9. Dunt Dunt Dunt's Avatar
    Afaik, BlackBerry shareholders will have the right to obtain shares of the spin-off company, so the ownership doesn't have to change signifcantly.
    The rest is just a formal excercise on how BlackBerry and the new BB10 company will cooperate about the usage of QNX, and here I would expect that there is a licensing model available.

    I could be wrong, as I have no specific insights of this industry or QNX and BB10, but normally it shouldn't be rocket science.
    Yes it could be done... but we are talking about a LOT of licensing. QNX code, NOC connections for BlackBerry Services like BBID and BBM, use of Patents that BlackBerry owns. Add these licensing cost to the development cost for BB10 - even if it "mature", it will need more work. I wouldn't be surprised if the cost would FAR exceed what ANYONE would be willing to license BB10 for.

    There have been other thread that "guesstimate" BB10 development at this point is probable costing BlackBerry between $50 -$150 million a year, throw in another $25 Million in licensing fees, and of course you'd have to support it so another $15 - $25 million. But say you got it all down to only $50 Million a year in cost.... you'd still be looking at $100 million in retail so if you only sold 1 million phones a year, you'd have to charge $100 per phone for licensing.

    Big Question..... what took Chen so long to give up on BB10? Unless this was all put into motion 18 months ago......
    10-19-15 03:12 PM
  10. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    BB10 can only survive with a radical strategy and a vision-img_20151019_161126.jpg
    BB10 can only survive with a radical strategy and a vision-img_20151019_162219.jpg
    BB10 can only survive with a radical strategy and a vision-img_20151019_161537.jpg
    BB10 can only survive with a radical strategy and a vision-img_20151019_161432.jpg
    BB10 can only survive with a radical strategy and a vision-img_20151019_161132.jpg
    .

    This device never made it to market, but runs QNX, too. I see Jolla, Ubuntu, Silent Circle and others all maintain and further develop their OS, I'm not really too sure how much resources are actually needed to keep BB10 going.

    https://sailfishos.org/about/

    Doesn't look like they're requiring a "ginormous" dev team.
    :-)

    .
    (edit:it's a connected "thingy", looks pretty IoT to me... ;-) )

      Ahoy, Privateers...! :-)  
    10-19-15 06:38 PM
  11. Troy Tiscareno's Avatar
    The difference is that Jolla is a small startup that isn't expected to be making profits at this point, has low overhead, and is making devices for the hobbyist market who doesn't need certifications, compliance statements, and government approvals. BB chose to focus on the most difficult and demanding segment of the smartphone business (one that they helped create), but it also means that their demands, and thus costs, are much higher to meet the higher demands of that market - yet they haven't been able to price their products to reflect that, because they have too much competition from iOS and Android, who have profits from the entire consumer market to pour into competition for enterprises. You simply can't compare the two as apples-to-apples.
    10-19-15 07:46 PM
  12. Prem WatsApp's Avatar
    The difference is that Jolla is a small startup that isn't expected to be making profits at this point, has low overhead, and is making devices for the hobbyist market who doesn't need certifications, compliance statements, and government approvals. BB chose to focus on the most difficult and demanding segment of the smartphone business (one that they helped create), but it also means that their demands, and thus costs, are much higher to meet the higher demands of that market - yet they haven't been able to price their products to reflect that, because they have too much competition from iOS and Android, who have profits from the entire consumer market to pour into competition for enterprises. You simply can't compare the two as apples-to-applesberries-to-berries.
    OK.

    :-)

     Ahoy, Privateers, ... get ready for some data piracy...! ;-) 
    10-20-15 01:32 AM
  13. Superdupont 2_0's Avatar
    There have been other thread that "guesstimate" BB10 development at this point is probable costing BlackBerry between $50 -$150 million a year, throw in another $25 Million in licensing fees, and of course you'd have to support it so another $15 - $25 million. But say you got it all down to only $50 Million a year in cost.... you'd still be looking at $100 million in retail so if you only sold 1 million phones a year, you'd have to charge $100 per phone for licensing.
    Well, I have thought about it and I think a symbolic license fee of 1$/year is enough, may guaranteed for the next 5 years. The new BB10 company may offer a few % shares in return to BlackBerry, to open up strategic options in the future, but that’s it.
    With regards to the guessed $100 million for retail, I would take a look a Jolla again.
    Let people decide the specs they want, offer a price and let them pay in advance. Does Jolla have an inventory problem? Is Jolla selling throughout stores and amazons? Once you got the answers, you may understand which way to go.

    PS: The goal is certainly not to sell only 1 million units per year. I still believe that 40% of all smartphone users would be happy with a BB10 as long as it has WhatsApp, Facebook and a decent camera.

    The difference is that Jolla is a small startup that isn't expected to be making profits at this point, has low overhead, and is making devices for the hobbyist market who doesn't need certifications, compliance statements, and government approvals. BB chose to focus on the most difficult and demanding segment of the smartphone business
    I agree with you on this
    And if BB10 would survive somehow then certainly without all these certifications.
    These certifications are worthless according to the markets.
    Androids and iOS, which never had all these licenses, they have taken significant market shares from BlackBerry year over year and have still not reached the regulatory status that BB10 has today.

    Now, I think BB10 has been reviewed by enough people to say that the OS itself is safer than Sailfish, Androids, WP or iOS.
    A new BB 10 company should open up BB10 to privacy focused consumers and those companies which want security, but don’t care about the certifications, ... just keep on the careful developing with focus on safety, but adding also a few less secure options like OpenVPN.
    However, do all that without all these certifications.

    Over time this will make future BB10 versions a little less secure, but still more secure than all other OSes in the market.


    As I said before, it shouldn't be rocket science.
    If the new BB 10 company would fail, okay.
    If it becomes a success, then BlackBerry might buy it back on day.
    Last edited by Superdupont 2_0; 10-20-15 at 05:26 AM.
    10-20-15 04:51 AM
  14. nt300's Avatar
    John Chen is the problem with why BlackBerry is selling less BB10 phones. How many times did people mention there MARKETING stinks. Wrong devices and wrong target audience. .

    BB10 Full Touch High End. Where is it? It's about Dam time we get a Z30 replacement powered by the best, BB10. Market the bloody thing.

    JC "SHOULD HAVE RELEASES" A Full Touch Passport and the Passport with the physical keyboard. Kill 2 birds with one stone.

    The full touch Passport would have Sold 10x to 20x more devices over the physical keyboard phone. Q

    It's never too late but he needs to act NOW.
    Ignorance is Bliss.

    Rocking a Z30
    10-27-15 02:57 PM
  15. DrBoomBotz's Avatar
    If its never too late then they can launch this device in 2025. You must be a very happy person.
    10-28-15 02:24 AM

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