03-31-14 06:31 PM
40 12
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  1. cloetechris's Avatar
    Let's face it one of the big reasons in sales of BB7 is the BIS service. If they increase the BIS service to let's say $15 per month for BB10, with limited internet (500mb ?), free bbm (limited voice and video) and 1 free mail service. I cannot see why this would not work. This could lead to a big increase of sales for BlackBerry.

    What except cost, is holding back BlackBerry to bring BIS to BlackBerry 10?

    Do you think that it is unlikely to bring limited BIS back to BB10?
    03-31-14 12:24 AM
  2. badiyee's Avatar
    Let's face it one of the big reasons in sales of BB7 is the BIS service. If they increase the BIS service to let's say $15 per month for BB10, with limited internet (500mb ?), free bbm (limited voice and video) and 1 free mail service. I cannot see why this would not work. This could lead to a big increase of sales for BlackBerry.

    What except cost, is holding back BlackBerry to bring BIS to BlackBerry 10?

    Do you think that it is unlikely to bring limited BIS back to BB10?
    Unfortunately, BIS deals are very exclusive to carriers in an individual manner.

    For example,

    I recently switched from a carrier to another. My number stays the same, but my carrier has changed.

    So I have to go and check their offerings on BIS. (For my 9800)


    Then it turns out, every company has a different pricing agenda for BIS. I asked an insider (by coincidence) and turns out that Telcos aren't favourable at paying a cut to BlackBerry for BIS, when they can sell that data, be a middle man to other service providers who wants your data (e.g, OPERA) who's willing to pay, rather than accept payment for similar services.

    FaceBook, Twitter, included.

    Telcos have their means of gauging what their customers are using their data for. And then to maximize profit they design data plans around that, and then make sure that they get a steady ARPU, preferably fixed per data service.



    In that aspect, BIS's single problem lies not within the users, but the Telcos. Because Telcos can stitch together a BIS-like service, by stitching together few services and then bundle them up, and still generate a bigger, ARPU. Telcos are only answerable to their CEOs, and their CEOs are only answerable to profit.


    Unless there is a way that BIS can be re-designed to entice Telcos to pick up BIS again, we can only hope, but we will never know.
    jpvj and cloetechris like this.
    03-31-14 01:15 AM
  3. Orange UK's Avatar
    Let's face it one of the big reasons in sales of BB7 is the BIS service. If they increase the BIS service to let's say $15 per month for BB10, with limited internet (500mb ?), free bbm (limited voice and video) and 1 free mail service. I cannot see why this would not work. This could lead to a big increase of sales for BlackBerry.

    What except cost, is holding back BlackBerry to bring BIS to BlackBerry 10?

    Do you think that it is unlikely to bring limited BIS back to BB10?
    The belief in abandoning its core asset that made it a giant is whats holding BlackBerry back on most counts.
    03-31-14 01:17 AM
  4. Alberta Blue's Avatar
    Disagree. BIS was holding BlackBerry back in a lot of ways.

    BIS was the main culprit for the ultra-slow browser.

    BIS was behind some of the limitations for email etc.

    Do you guys own a BB10 device? I don't understand what the big deal was with BIS? Compression? Totally not worth it.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10.
    21stNow and Plazmic Flame like this.
    03-31-14 01:32 AM
  5. badiyee's Avatar
    The belief in abandoning its core asset that made it a giant is whats holding BlackBerry back on most counts.
    Apparently BlackBerry listened to the people who left BlackBerry, and they quoted BIS as one of the major reasons (apart from the laggy BBOS) as reasons why they left BlackBerry. Of course a reaction was needed, and the reaction was BB10 was not designed with BIS in mind, despite it being connected to the NOC in a way or another)
    03-31-14 01:32 AM
  6. Orange UK's Avatar
    Disagree. BIS was holding BlackBerry back in a lot of ways.

    BIS was the main culprit for the ultra-slow browser.

    BIS was behind some of the limitations for email etc.

    Do you guys own a BB10 device? I don't understand what the big deal was with BIS? Compression? Totally not worth it.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10.
    Slow my ***, with correct telco settings on their customer service side (most cap BIS to save capacity for their priority non BB internet browsing customers) I can max a 1.5MBPS connection running average at 800KBPS on BIS on a 3.5G network (upto 7.2MBPS), if BB threw money into compression sources like Opera, Firefox and IE10 and its BIS servers upgraded with capacity and checked what 'capped' telcos are transmitting to BIS servers and took action BIS would work ever better!
    03-31-14 01:43 AM
  7. cbvinh's Avatar
    The problem with BIS is that customers don't want to pay an extra fee for BIS, on top of the data services they're already paying for. If BIS was free to the customer, then the carriers would be eating the cost of BIS, which they don't want to be doing either.

    As for the suggested plan of the OP, why would the carriers allow BlackBerry to collect $15/month for data services when the carriers could collect it themselves without giving a cut to BlackBerry? Or are you saying you're willing to pay an *extra* $15/month, unlike most users?
    03-31-14 01:59 AM
  8. badiyee's Avatar
    Disagree. BIS was holding BlackBerry back in a lot of ways.

    BIS was the main culprit for the ultra-slow browser.

    BIS was behind some of the limitations for email etc.

    Do you guys own a BB10 device? I don't understand what the big deal was with BIS? Compression? Totally not worth it.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10.
    I'm going to have to ask if you ever owned and used a legacy BlackBerry device in a meaningful way.

    If you have, then I shouldn't need to answer.

    But if you haven't, I will attempt to make you comprehend why BIS back in its day as a very superior technology for bringing data in a certain manner.
    03-31-14 01:59 AM
  9. cbvinh's Avatar
    But if you haven't, I will attempt to make you comprehend why BIS back in its day as a very superior technology for bringing data in a certain manner.
    I know you're not asking me, but I've used BIS and my data usage was way less prior to switching to BB10. However, with the current data plan I have, I'm not willing to pay another $15/month for BIS. I might be willing to pay $1-$5/month if it made my 500 MB into using something like 1-2 GB. (The next 500 MB-1 GB would cost me an extra $10/month.)

    There's no question that BIS compression is good for the user's data usage, but one of the complaints people regularly posted was that they didn't want to pay extra for BIS.
    03-31-14 02:09 AM
  10. badiyee's Avatar
    I know you're not asking me, but I've used BIS and my data usage was way less prior to switching to BB10. However, with the current data plan I have, I'm not willing to pay another $15/month for BIS. I might be willing to pay $1-$5/month if it made my 500 MB into using something like 1-2 GB. (The next 500 MB-1 GB would cost me an extra $10/month.)

    There's no question that BIS compression is good for the user's data usage, but one of the complaints people regularly posted was that they didn't want to pay extra for BIS.
    This is correct. The users that have left BlackBerry often list this as another "headache" in their list.

    Every country is different, at least that's how I understood how BIS subscription works.

    For example I am paying RM75 for a 5GB plan now. if I add BIS its actually another RM15. Just for BIS, not data cap. So, yes, I can comprehend that.

    But if you ask me, was the RM15 worth it? in many ways, yes it was. If it wasn't that BIS is not usable on BB10, I would have kept subscribing any way.
    Last edited by badiyee; 03-31-14 at 03:29 AM.
    03-31-14 03:07 AM
  11. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    Disagree. BIS was holding BlackBerry back in a lot of ways.

    BIS was the main culprit for the ultra-slow browser.

    BIS was behind some of the limitations for email etc.

    Do you guys own a BB10 device? I don't understand what the big deal was with BIS? Compression? Totally not worth it.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10.
    That's a myth, bis is plenty fast, it's not apparent on a BBOS device but if you bridge it to a PlayBook you'll them see really how fast it is.



    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 03:36 AM
  12. 5parkey's Avatar
    I've got Blackberry services on my BB10 contract with Vodafone UK
    03-31-14 04:00 AM
  13. web99's Avatar
    Let's face it one of the big reasons in sales of BB7 is the BIS service. If they increase the BIS service to let's say $15 per month for BB10, with limited internet (500mb ?), free bbm (limited voice and video) and 1 free mail service. I cannot see why this would not work. This could lead to a big increase of sales for BlackBerry.

    What except cost, is holding back BlackBerry to bring BIS to BlackBerry 10?

    Do you think that it is unlikely to bring limited BIS back to BB10?
    There are a lot more important factors holding back BB10 sales. Lack of marketing, the initial pricing, unfinished operating system at launch, lack of the native big-named apps, tarnished brand name due to bad user experience on previous BBOS devices, etc.

    Just over a year ago, March 2013 earnings report, Blackberry sold 6.8 million devices, with about 1 million of them being BB10. That was 5.8 million BBOS devices.

    Sales of BB7 devices have been steadily declining for at least the last 3 quarters. Last quarter it was only 2.3 million devices.

    So the sales of BBOS devices with BBOS 7 and BIS is steadily declining. Even in the emerging markets, the trend is the same. But the sales of android device, with no BIS is up.

    Back to your question about what is holding BIS back. For one, the major carriers want to get rid of it. For 2 from a technical point, it introduces a single point of failure in the case when NOC goes down. It also slows down traffic and results in email truncation. And the browsing experience on my BBOS devices was sub-par compared to other devices out there. These all lead to bad customer experiences. Things that I don't miss with my Z10 and Q10 devices.

    I can't say whether BBRY will bring back BIS or not, but I can say that I am one of those who don't miss it at all.

    Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Z10
    03-31-14 04:10 AM
  14. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    I've got Blackberry services on my BB10 contract with Vodafone UK
    No you don't, they might still be attached to your account but your BB10 device can't use them.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 04:42 AM
  15. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    There are a lot more important factors holding back BB10 sales. Lack of marketing, the initial pricing, unfinished operating system at launch, lack of the native big-named apps, tarnished brand name due to bad user experience on previous BBOS devices, etc.

    Just over a year ago, March 2013 earnings report, Blackberry sold 6.8 million devices, with about 1 million of them being BB10. That was 5.8 million BBOS devices.

    Sales of BB7 devices have been steadily declining for at least the last 3 quarters. Last quarter it was only 2.3 million devices.

    So the sales of BBOS devices with BBOS 7 and BIS is steadily declining. Even in the emerging markets, the trend is the same. But the sales of android device, with no BIS is up.

    Back to your question about what is holding BIS back. For one, the major carriers want to get rid of it. For 2 from a technical point, it introduces a single point of failure in the case when NOC goes down. It also slows down traffic and results in email truncation. And the browsing experience on my BBOS devices was sub-par compared to other devices out there. These all lead to bad customer experiences. Things that I don't miss with my Z10 and Q10 devices.

    I can't say whether BBRY will bring back BIS or not, but I can say that I am one of those who don't miss it at all.

    Posted via CB10 from my spectacular Z10
    We keep hearing that but it's just a bunch of assumptions with no evidence to back it up.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 04:43 AM
  16. Ben1232's Avatar
    No you don't, they might still be attached to your account but your BB10 device can't use them.


    #believeinfilm
    Vodafone attached BIS to my Z10 's contract too. Is it only on paper because I've put my Z10 sim into my 9780 and BlackBerry services don't show.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10 app
    03-31-14 04:53 AM
  17. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    We keep hearing that carriers don't like BIS, yet some carriers in UK have stopped selling BB10 but still sell BBOS devices, that doesn't tell me they don't like BIS, that tells me it was BlackBerry's decision to scrap BIS in the BB10 platform.





    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 04:54 AM
  18. yessuz's Avatar
    I've got Blackberry services on my BB10 contract with Vodafone UK
    you realize, that you pay vodafone like 5 a month or similar, for BIS plan, and you are not using it?
    03-31-14 05:50 AM
  19. yessuz's Avatar
    Vodafone attached BIS to my Z10 's contract too. Is it only on paper because I've put my Z10 sim into my 9780 and BlackBerry services don't show.

    Posted from my Z30 via CB10 app
    do you pay any additional premium for BIS plan?
    because 3 charge you like 3 or 5 pounds / month for BIS.

    Vodafone should be the same.

    so WHY would you pay additional money for service you do not use?

    in this cases, send me those 3 pounds, please
    03-31-14 05:53 AM
  20. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    you realize, that you pay vodafone like 5 a month or similar, for BIS plan, and you are not using it?
    No, Vodafone UK never charged extra for BIS data plans.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 05:53 AM
  21. yessuz's Avatar
    well, to be honest, I am happy that BB10 is not using BIS.

    Bis was OK for email and maybe some native apps like twitter, fb, bbm.
    It was horrible for browsing! speeds were tragic even with 3G. unless you are connected to wifi.
    03-31-14 05:55 AM
  22. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    do you pay any additional premium for BIS plan?
    because 3 charge you like 3 or 5 pounds / month for BIS.

    Vodafone should be the same.

    so WHY would you pay additional money for service you do not use?

    in this cases, send me those 3 pounds, please
    Vodafone never did.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 05:55 AM
  23. wout000's Avatar
    Implementing BIS like compression techniques in the BB10 browser should go a long way to save data. BIS is basically a VPN that routes all non-encrypted traffic like what Opera does with Opera Max.

    BIS is a steady revenue though so I don't think they'd be doing that soon and risk having BB OS7 users who pay for BIS jump to BB10.
    03-31-14 05:56 AM
  24. yessuz's Avatar
    No, Vodafone UK never charged extra for BIS data plans.


    #believeinfilm
    BlackBerry Internet Service – BlackBerry Email and BBM – Vodafone
    Pay as you go – just 5 for 30 days
    Pay monthly – free on BlackBerry plans. Or if you've got any other plan, simply opt in and pay 5 a month
    03-31-14 05:59 AM
  25. belfastdispatcher's Avatar
    BlackBerry Internet Service*– BlackBerry Email and BBM*– Vodafone
    Pay as you go just 5 for 30 days
    Pay monthly free on BlackBerry plans. Or if you've got any other plan, simply opt in and pay 5 a month
    So they only charge you extra is you sign for a data plan for let's say an iphone and you want to have the BIS option too.

    No extra charges if you get a BIS data plan in the first place.


    #believeinfilm
    03-31-14 06:03 AM
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