[Axacta]

OK, can we all now agree that the app gap is old news? BB should use it to their advantage by utilizing it as a lead into 15 or 30-second TV advertisements. They begin:

"Since the app gap is now closed between BlackBerry and Android and iPhone devices, we thought you should know why you should purchase a BlackBerry instead of the others."

Make it a statement of the obvious, even if it isn't obvious to the viewer. The idea is to plant it in the viewer's mind as been-there-done-that. Start every advertisement with this.

Then show all three top devices (Z30, S4 and 5S) side by side with someone typing the same length sentences in each. "Blackberry devices ... blah, blah, blah, ... and that is why Blackberry devices are the best phone for you." Obviously, the person on the BB will finish their paragraph first. So the S4 should end later with "...and this is why Andriod devices are not the best phone for you." Same for the 5S.

Then make a commercial comparing a checking texts, BBMs, emails etc. and answering them with the same concluding lines, illustrating again that the BB device is the faster and more efficient of the three.

Add another commercial for the speed of the browser where a number of pages are shown and clicked through to the last page with concluding text similar to the text as above.

Additionally, images for webpage advertisements and storefront posters would have the introduction at top with an image of the three phones side by side with appropriate text on their screens with the amount of seconds to do the job printed below each phone.

Pick out every single area of the phone where BB excels over the others and do direct comparisons with the same introductory and concluding lines. Flood the market with these advertisements and watch BB sales climb.

[Anyway, that's my little idea of how BB can generate some consumer sales. Hope it is of some value. And if it is, I won't be averse to BB sending me some remuneration for my idea. ;-)]

[Troy Tiscareno]

• Running Android apps is not, and almost certainly will never be, an "official feature" of BB10. It's officially a feature for developers, to allow them to take their Android apps and port them to BB10 with a minimum of effort.
  
• BB does not control Android, and Google could make changes to the Play Store rules tomorrow that could lock BB out of using apps from the Play Store, and requiring Devs to re-compile their apps separately if they wanted to post those apps on alternative markets (Amazon, 1market, etc.). BB simply cannot count on continued Android access, because they have no control over it, nor even any official business relationship with Google.
  
• The vast majority of normal consumers aren't willing to sideload or run non-sanctioned apps from Chinese app stores. For most customers, if it isn't in BBWorld, it doesn't exist for them.
  
• Lots of Android apps don't run, including many apps that customers consider to be "key." No paid apps can be used, and no in-app purchases work. That means Android apps are definitely not the total solution.
  
• BB has several other serious problems with the consumer market in mature markets, especially the US, and a big one of those is a lack of carrier support. People who want to buy a BB have to be quite determined, given that very few carriers stores stock them, and many carriers don't even carry or make available certain models at all. Generally, only die-hard BB fans are going to run that gauntlet in order to get a BB phone - mass consumers certainly won't; they'll buy the iPhone or Galaxy the carrier store recommends instead.
  
• BB's brand image is massively damaged in mature markets. It will take a large, sustained, and very expensive ad campaign to change that, assuming of course that they can make great ads, something we all know BB has never been able to do in the past.
  
• BB has extremely limited funds available right now. They lost over $4 *BILLION* in value in the last quarter alone, and over $1B in CASH. They've had to borrow $1.25B just to remain solvent, and so now they have this large debt and have to pay interest on it. The companies very survival is still very much in doubt. Spending money without extreme caution and targeting would kill them quickly, and that's exactly what would happen if they even started spinning up such a consumer marketing campaign right now.

John Chen has stated that BB is focusing on regulated enterprise sales mature markets and on a low-end BB10 phone (Jakarta) for emerging markets, and those decisions were made because that's all that BB has the ability to do right now. Even those have no guarantee of success, but I think we can all agree that they are BB's best shot at a win right now, given the situation they are in.

Your ideas aren't bad, they just aren't possible given how far BB has fallen. Being many years late to the game is very bad for business, and BB is paying the price for that.

[Axacta]

To Troy Tiscarino:

I disagree that there is no consumer market for BB. I think a good advertising campaign can work. It is a main component of how the marketplace works for virtually all products. BB is no exception and they have many strengths to play off of.

It does not matter whether every Google app is available. That's not what the ads would say. It's advertising, not sworn testimony before a Senate investigation committee. Lean on your strengths and kick the feet out from under your competitors. Make yourself look good and them look bad.

Thanks for the effort you put in your post, but it is mostly off-topic.

[skibnik]

What needs to be done is BlackBerry has to make a deal with amazon to create an android app store for BlackBerry users circumventing Google Play all together.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[Axacta]

What needs to be done is BlackBerry has to make a deal with amazon to create an android app store for BlackBerry users circumventing Google Play all together.

What has that got to do with advertising? Do you think that BB going around saying, "Hey! Look at us! We've got an app deal with Amazon!" would entice anyone to switch from their Android or Apple device?

You are preaching to the choir. It's the people walking by the church who have never been inside a church that BB needs to reach.

[skibnik]

What has that got to do with advertising? Do you think that BB going around saying, "Hey! Look at us! We've got an app deal with Amazon!" would entice anyone to switch from their Android or Apple device?

You are preaching to the choir. It's the people walking by the church who have never been inside a church that BB needs to reach.

Before any advertising of the fact you can now directly download Android apps is made you need to have in place an app store that provides android apps that have been vetted so they actually work properly on BB10 devices and secondly is free of any Google influence that way if Google decides to get cute and change their api's so they will not work on BlackBerry's android runtime you won't get the boatload of complaints from average users that would happen. BlackBerry has to protect its image and launching an add campaign with untested apps would crush whatever reputation BlackBerry has left.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[Axacta]

Before any advertising of the fact you can now directly download Android apps is made you need to have in place an app store that provides android apps that have been vetted so they actually work properly on BB10 devices and secondly is free of any Google influence that way if Google decides to get cute and change their api's so they will not work on BlackBerry's android runtime you won't get the boatload of complaints from average users that would happen. BlackBerry has to protect its image and launching an add campaign with untested apps would crush whatever reputation BlackBerry has left.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

So you think that Google would anger all of its app developers by changing its requirements just to screw BB? If that was a serious threat, then BB deserves to go under just for creating an Android runtime in the first place, or not going full-out Android OS.

The problem with consumers is that BB has no reputation right now - zero, ziltch, nada! They have to start building one before their window of opportunity closes for good when the cash runs out and there is nobody left to infuse more. (They aren't making money right now - they're losing it by the barrel-full!) Apps is definitely not how they are going to win back customers. Even if they had full Google Store access right now, that would not bring back customers.

The app gap is now sufficiently closed to make that claim and BB has to get consumers to look at their strengths over the competition when making their next smartphone purchase. The marketplace waits for no one. If BB waits for all of their ducks to be lined up in a row, it'll already be too late. At best BB will be left as a niche player in the business world with no footprint in the consumer marketplace. At worst they'll be another Nortel.

[Axacta]

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

I find it curious that in your signature you seem to claim that the app gap is closed, but then you argue with me that it is not sufficiently closed. Shouldn't your signature be: "Android runtime is NOT ENOUGH!"

[Axacta]

Some detail for the phone text. It could say something like the following.

Z30: "The new BlackBerry 10 phones have only been out for a year and they have already caught and surpassed the competition. BackBerry's predictive keypad is the fastest available, and that is why Blackberry devices are the best phone for you."

S4: "The new BlackBerry 10 phones have only been out for a year and they have already caught and surpassed the competition. BackBerry's predictive keypad is the fastest available, and that is why Android devices are not the best phone for you."

5S: "The new BlackBerry 10 phones have only been out for a year and they have already caught and surpassed the competition. BackBerry's predictive keypad is the fastest available, and that is why Apple devices are not the best phone for you."

Time it so that when the Z30's text finishes, the S4's is at "...and that is why Android devices are not the best phone for you." and the 5S's text is at "...and that is why Apple devices are not the best phone for you."

The idea is to have the viewer's eyes directed where you wish and reading what you want them to read. Have the Z30 on the left, then the S4, then the 5S to the right. Exaggerate the text of the Z30 with bold or a slightly larger font to draw the viewer's attention to the Z30's text first (keep it subtle, but enough to draw attention). When the Z30 stops early the viewers eyes will be attracted to the continuing S4 and 5S text, getting the point across.

Same thing with the browser comparison. The opening page of each phone would have "BlackBerry Browser", "Android Browser" and "Apple Browser" with a mix of irrelevant content around the titles to make the page look busy. Add a "next.." link below the titles. Show fingers clicking through to the next page simultaneously. The next page has a countdown of 5 seconds with a "next..." link below on all three browsers, indicating how long until the next click. Naturally, you have the Z30 browser open the second page first (because it is faster) and clicking through to the next page first. The next page will widen the time gap between the Z30 and the other phones even more. Have another countdown and then have the last page say:

Z30: "...and that is why BlackBerry devices are the best phone for you."

S4: "...and that is why Android devices are not the best phone for you."

5S: "...and that is why Apple devices are not the best phone for you."

Have the text scroll sideways onto the screen and time the text so that when the Z30 text finishes, the other phone's text scrolling begins.

Again, the idea is to direct the reader to the conclusion you want through timing presentation and message.

[Troy Tiscareno]

So you think that Google would anger all of its app developers by changing its requirements just to screw BB?

No. Rather, Google would change its requirements to PROTECT the Play Store and its developers. BB isn't the only competing platform trying to use Android apps; Jolla Sailfish, FireFox, Tizen, and probably others want this as well. If devs want to compile a version of their app for an alternate store for these platforms, that's fine, but right now, stealing apps out of the Play Store with no mechanism to get the developers paid is a violation of the TOS and is WRONG, and if Google made changes to prevent that, devs would rejoice. It's not like Google hasn't updated requirements in the past, causing most devs to have to update their apps. That's a normal part of app development: maintenance.

So, yes, as more and more people pirate apps from the Play Store, the pressure to fix that problem is only going to increase, and I think it's only a matter of time before such a change is made. I have no inside knowledge, but lots of experience with the tech sector over 30 years, and it seems to be the sensible thing to do.

[Axacta]

No. Rather, Google would change its requirements to PROTECT the Play Store and its developers. BB isn't the only competing platform trying to use Android apps; Jolla Sailfish, FireFox, Tizen, and probably others want this as well.

What are they waiting for?

If devs want to compile a version of their app for an alternate store for these platforms, that's fine, but right now, stealing apps out of the Play Store with no mechanism to get the developers paid is a violation of the TOS and is WRONG, and if Google made changes to prevent that, devs would rejoice.

Who's stealing apps? The complaint I've heard the most is that paid apps mostly won't work even when they have been paid for.

So, yes, as more and more people pirate apps from the Play Store, the pressure to fix that problem is only going to increase, and I think it's only a matter of time before such a change is made. I have no inside knowledge, but lots of experience with the tech sector over 30 years, and it seems to be the sensible thing to do.

Virtually all of the Android apps that BB users can use are free. And the developers still get the data downloads to sell, and can still advertise within the apps? What pirating? Why wouldn't Android app developers welcome BB users with open arms? Where did you get this idea that Android developers don't want a bigger market?

Anyway, even if some of what you say comes to pass, why should that stop BB now from taking advantage of the current situation to the max? If things change, BB then changes their strategy. Marketing is mainly about What-have-you-got-for-me-today? Especially in the tech world. Right now BB needs to make their phones more desirable. I am simply offering an idea that might help them do it. You sound like you prefer them to fail.

[Axacta]

Consumers don't care about WHY. They care about what the phone they buy TODAY, does TODAY.

I pulled the above quote from another thread. Sounds just like me on this thread. Can you get your story straight, Troy?

[skibnik]

No. Rather, Google would change its requirements to PROTECT the Play Store and its developers. BB isn't the only competing platform trying to use Android apps; Jolla Sailfish, FireFox, Tizen, and probably others want this as well. If devs want to compile a version of their app for an alternate store for these platforms, that's fine, but right now, stealing apps out of the Play Store with no mechanism to get the developers paid is a violation of the TOS and is WRONG, and if Google made changes to prevent that, devs would rejoice. It's not like Google hasn't updated requirements in the past, causing most devs to have to update their apps. That's a normal part of app development: maintenance.

So, yes, as more and more people pirate apps from the Play Store, the pressure to fix that problem is only going to increase, and I think it's only a matter of time before such a change is made. I have no inside knowledge, but lots of experience with the tech sector over 30 years, and it seems to be the sensible thing to do.

How is purchasing an app from Google Play and then loading it on a BB10 device using Snap piracy? What Google is trying to do is gain a monopoly over all of android and android apps that's the only reason it would change its requirements not to protect devs.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[skibnik]

I find it curious that in your signature you seem to claim that the app gap is closed, but then you argue with me that it is not sufficiently closed. Shouldn't your signature be: "Android runtime is NOT ENOUGH!"

My signature doesn't say the app gap is closed it is just a sarcastic comment meant to lighten up people. Something you should consider Axacta. You are passionate about your point of view and I respect that, this forum is designed for discussion not trying to convert someone to what you think is true.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[Axacta]

My signature doesn't say the app gap is closed it is just a sarcastic comment meant to lighten up people.

Please... Who do you think you are kidding?

Something you should consider Axacta. You are passionate about your point of view and I respect that, this forum is designed for discussion not trying to convert someone to what you think is true.

Look in the mirror and take your own advise. I have illustrated that both you and Troy want to play both sides of the field at the same time. Go create your own thread about app pirating (I couldn't care less). I created this thread to discuss advertising, not your hand-wringing anxieties over whether you think it is appropriate whether you should pirate apps (in your mind) from Google or not. And take Troy with you...

[Troy Tiscareno]

Who's stealing apps? The complaint I've heard the most is that paid apps mostly won't work even when they have been paid for.

There have been many posts here with people talking about downloading "paid" (wink wink) apps from Chinese app stores. You're naive if you don't believe this is happening.

Virtually all of the Android apps that BB users can use are free. And the developers still get the data downloads to sell, and can still advertise within the apps? What pirating? Why wouldn't Android app developers welcome BB users with open arms? Where did you get this idea that Android developers don't want a bigger market?

Many apps are monetized via in-app purchases, which don't work on BB10.

Anyway, even if some of what you say comes to pass, why should that stop BB now from taking advantage of the current situation to the max? If things change, BB then changes their strategy. Marketing is mainly about What-have-you-got-for-me-today? Especially in the tech world. Right now BB needs to make their phones more desirable. I am simply offering an idea that might help them do it. You sound like you prefer them to fail.

Because if BB were to advertise that BB10 ran Android apps, and people bought a BB10 phone on a 2-year contract, only to have BB10 not be able to run Android apps (or even just SOME Android apps, one of which may be key for that customer), BB would be torn apart in the media and would be open to a false advertising lawsuit/class action. Plus, imagine all of the complaints they'd have to field about people who either couldn't get an Android app running, or couldn't get full functionality? BB normally has to do little direct support, because the carriers handle that, but BB has lost most carrier support, and the last thing they need is to flood their remaining carriers with a bunch of angry customers who need help that the carrier isn't set up to provide, or who want to exchange their BB10 phones for something else, which is a big loss for the carrier. Remember, these wouldn't be Crackberry members who know how to get support online, and are used to doing complicated stuff themselves; this would be the general public - the ones who sometimes struggle with iOS, which is widely-regarded as the simplest mobile OS to learn.

If BB10 was a Google-certified phone with Google Services Framework and could run all Android apps correctly and had access to Google Play, THEN it would make sense to promote the Android Runtime. But that's not the case - the feature is still considered, by BB, to be a developer feature ONLY, even if they're fine with advanced users making use of it on their own.

[xBURK]

OP, I like your passion and your ideas. I think you can have the same effect by not directly comparing BB10 with other phones though. BlackBerry's marketing definitely needs time to regroup and let some time pass. In my mind, Mr. Chen has played this the right way. Just by him stating they're focus will mainly be on enterprise now, takes the pressure off the BB10 device sales disaster. In reality, I believe BlackBerry's Marketing team has every intention to come back full tilt. I feel they're just letting the dust settle.

Posted via CB10

[Axacta]

OP, I like your passion and your ideas. I think you can have the same effect by not directly comparing BB10 with other phones though. BlackBerry's marketing definitely needs time to regroup and let some time pass. In my mind, Mr. Chen has played this the right way. Just by him stating they're focus will mainly be on enterprise now, takes the pressure off the BB10 device sales disaster. In reality, I believe BlackBerry's Marketing team has every intention to come back full tilt. I feel they're just letting the dust settle.

Yeah, you're probably right in the very short term. Chen has to settle in and get his team and strategy straightened out. Hopefully, BB will come out all guns blazing soon. However, I do think that the only way to regain trust in the marketplace is to tell the consumer what BB's strengths are compared to their competitors. I believe that they can win that argument, but it has to be conveyed to the consumer in a convincing way. I'm just offering an idea to consider.

[skibnik]

There have been many posts here with people talking about downloading "paid" (wink wink) apps from Chinese app stores. You're naive if you don't believe this is happening.



Many apps are monetized via in-app purchases, which don't work on BB10.



Because if BB were to advertise that BB10 ran Android apps, and people bought a BB10 phone on a 2-year contract, only to have BB10 not be able to run Android apps (or even just SOME Android apps, one of which may be key for that customer), BB would be torn apart in the media and would be open to a false advertising lawsuit/class action. Plus, imagine all of the complaints they'd have to field about people who either couldn't get an Android app running, or couldn't get full functionality? BB normally has to do little direct support, because the carriers handle that, but BB has lost most carrier support, and the last thing they need is to flood their remaining carriers with a bunch of angry customers who need help that the carrier isn't set up to provide, or who want to exchange their BB10 phones for something else, which is a big loss for the carrier. Remember, these wouldn't be Crackberry members who know how to get support online, and are used to doing complicated stuff themselves; this would be the general public - the ones who sometimes struggle with iOS, which is widely-regarded as the simplest mobile OS to learn.

If BB10 was a Google-certified phone with Google Services Framework and could run all Android apps correctly and had access to Google Play, THEN it would make sense to promote the Android Runtime. But that's not the case - the feature is still considered, by BB, to be a developer feature ONLY, even if they're fine with advanced users making use of it on their own.

That's why I said in my earlier post that BlackBerry needs to make a deal with Amazon to create a non Google dependent app store that way all android apps that would appear on that app store would be vetted to actually work properly this app store could then be integrated into BB World

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[lnichols]

OK, can we all now agree that the app gap is old news? BB should use it to their advantage by utilizing it as a lead into 15 or 30-second TV advertisements.

No we can't agree on that. If SNAP were in BlackBerry World and didn't need to be side loaded then maybe. But if they advertise now that all the apps are available, then people have to go through multi-step processes to side load an app that loads apps that are not in BlackBerry World, then a lit if people are just going to return the device. Sorry, but the process needs to be simpler for mass adoption.

Posted via CB10

[tmf06]

No we can't agree on that. If SNAP were in BlackBerry World and didn't need to be side loaded then maybe. But if they advertise now that all the apps are available, then people have to go through multi-step processes to side load an app that loads apps that are not in BlackBerry World, then a lit if people are just going to return the device. Sorry, but the process needs to be simpler for mass adoption.

Posted via CB10

Yeah, it's really tough going to amazon.com in the browser and loading their app...took all of 10 seconds. Some people may not sideload snap, but just about anyone will load amazon through their browser.

Posted via CB10

[skibnik]

Yeah, it's really tough going to amazon.com in the browser and loading their app...took all of 10 seconds. Some people may not sideload snap, but just about anyone will load amazon through their browser.

Posted via CB10

True but do all of the Amazon apps work properly? BlackBerry needs a 100% vetted android app store so the common users don't start returning their devices when more that a few apps don't work.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

[tmf06]

True but do all of the Amazon apps work properly? BlackBerry needs a 100% vetted android app store so the common users don't start returning their devices when more that a few apps don't work.

Z10 Running 10.2.1.1925 Take that Mr App Gap!

I haven't had any amazon apps not work, probably because amazon devices won't work with Google play services either. Obviously a few of the snap apps don't work.

I guess I don't think most people would return their phone if one or two apps didn't work. I believe even the average user will see the ability to run apk files as a bonus and accept that a small percentage won't work...maybe I give people too much credit.



Posted via CB10

[lnichols]

Yeah, it's really tough going to amazon.com in the browser and loading their app...took all of 10 seconds. Some people may not sideload snap, but just about anyone will load amazon through their browser.

Posted via CB10

Is BlackBerry going to advertise and tell people that they can install Amazon? Amazon has stated you are free to use but they won't support it, so is BlackBerry going to start troubleshooting issues. Still a lot of logistical issues that the average consumer likely wouldn't deal with when other solutions are simpler and integrated, or look to Crackberry to figure out work arounds. BlackBerry needs to address these issues, make the solution more integrated and supported, and when all that happens then we can say the app gap is gone.

Posted via CB10

[Axacta]

BlackBerry needs to address these issues, make the solution more integrated and supported, and when all that happens then we can say the app gap is gone.

If BlackBerry waits for that to happen and it doesn't happen soon, it may be BlackBerry that is gone.

Google searches: "app not working" = 4,170,000 ... "app doesn't work" = 4,440,000 ... "app won't work" = 10,900,000

If every complaint of an issue on the internet represents anywhere from 10 to 1,000 people who are silent about the same issue, we're talking hundreds of millions to tens of billions of problems with apps. It is just a simple fact that apps of all kinds often do not work for a myriad of reasons on all devices. Everybody knows it, and everybody expects it.

Here's another Google search: blackberry app gap = 34,100,000

BlackBerry simply must move beyond the app gap mantra in order to regain the confidence of the marketplace. Look at the numbers. The app gap mantra number for Blackberry represents 34 million search results! Worrying about a few apps that won't work is hardly the primary concern for BB. Reversing that mantra is. It is not a matter of being able to use every Android app. It is being able to say that enough Android apps are now available to BB users to put to bed the "app gap" mantra. That is now true. You do it by claiming that it is over.

We are talking advertising here. When Ford advertises that its trucks get better mileage than Chev trucks, it is not like there is a huge difference that will make or break someone's budget. But it sounds great to make the claim - and it helps sell trucks. But we're generally talking tenths of a gallon per mile compared under perfect conditions. If Ford had to explain that they have no idea whether it translates to better mileage in very hot weather, or very cold weather, or very humid weather, or very dry weather, or in mountainous country, or in flat desert country, or at sea level, or pulling a load, or carrying a load, advertising based on fuel mileage would be worthless. Advertising is not about telling the black and white truth to your potential customers. If everyone had to advertise in black and white with all of the caveats included, advertising would seldom work.

If BlackBerry waits for a perfect world, that swirling sound will turn into a gurgling sound real soon. It was complacency that kept BB from competing head-on with Android and Apple that got them into trouble in the first place. Changing that complacency into fear is not a solution - it will just result in no consumer handset market share at all. [That's Troy you hear applauding in the background.] By then it'll be too late to get every app integrated and supported.