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07-03-18 07:54 PM
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  1. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Unfortunately, Hitler kept demanding changes, improvements and different versions, meaning that the research and development dragged out to the point where the plane didn't have much of an effect.
    I wouldn’t say that was unfortunate.
    DonHB likes this.
    04-19-18 11:13 PM
  2. KAM1138's Avatar
    I can't speak to development - I'm an architect... the building kind, not the IT systems kind.

    But, the Android Runtime (ART) has been part of the OS since the PlayBook OS days. It wasn't suddenly dropped into the QNX OS, it's always been there. It was a locked runtime at the start until 10.3, I believe. Locked, meaning it had to be wrapped as a bar file and side-loaded.

    When they unlocked the runtime, that allowed direct install capability of the apk file that we have today.

    The original idea was that developers could port their existing apps, see how well they work, then spring for their own development of native BB10. The ART was intended to be temporary. Once those developers were to switch to BB10, BlackBerry was to rely lesson on the runtime.

    It didn't work out that way. The developers didn't come. The few that did just stopped working on their apps for BB10 after a while. And those that just ported their android apps just let them languish. Sure, a few stuck around and did a few updates, but many did not.

    In response, BlackBerry made a deal with Amazon to add their App Store, and that's when the runtime was unlocked.

    This post was edited to finish my thought. Previously this got posted before I finished. In fact, it went out mid-sentence.
    Yes, someone had answered that the ART was part of the OS from the beginning.

    I think it's probably unlikely looking back that if there was no ART that Blackberry native developers would have come out in huge numbers, but I was wondering if the mindset was: Well, they can use Android Apps, why bother with Native ones."
    DonHB likes this.
    04-20-18 07:47 AM
  3. joeldf's Avatar
    Yes, someone had answered that the ART was part of the OS from the beginning.

    I think it's probably unlikely looking back that if there was no ART that Blackberry native developers would have come out in huge numbers, but I was wondering if the mindset was: Well, they can use Android Apps, why bother with Native ones."
    I think that was a question all along. BlackBerry saw it as a pathway to BB10. Developers (the few who were actually interested) saw it as a quick way to test the audience, and if BB10 didn't work out, they could move on... little lost in the endeavor.
    04-20-18 08:42 AM
  4. KAM1138's Avatar
    I think that was a question all along. BlackBerry saw it as a pathway to BB10. Developers (the few who were actually interested) saw it as a quick way to test the audience, and if BB10 didn't work out, they could move on... little lost in the endeavor.
    Do you mean developers didn't lose much?
    I don't develop apps, so I'm not sure of how they approach things, but if I wanted to serve a group of Customers (BB10 users--before the market proved to be too small), and I knew that someone could potentially use Android Apps--thus making the odds of them buying my Native BB10 app lower...well, then why bother with BB10?

    It seems to me that they had to compete with Android Developers within the Blackberry user base (regardless of size).
    If you had much less competition within that group, then maybe they would have seen that as having more potential.

    Let's say someone wanted to make a Calorie Counting App for dieting. They say--ok, there are a Million BB10 Customers out there, and I'd like to sell 10,000 copies of my app. It seems if BB10 Customers have access to Native apps AND Android apps, then the odds of him selling to his target are lower--because the competition is much greater.

    Sometimes a niche customer base can be viable.
    DonHB likes this.
    04-20-18 08:53 AM
  5. glwerry's Avatar
    I wouldn’t say that was unfortunate.
    Yeah, I see what you meant - I did NOT mean to imply that I was pulling for the Nazis to win the war - I was just saying "unfortunately" in the scope of the project to develop the airplane.
    04-20-18 08:56 AM
  6. conite's Avatar
    Do you mean developers didn't lose much?
    I don't develop apps, so I'm not sure of how they approach things, but if I wanted to serve a group of Customers (BB10 users--before the market proved to be too small), and I knew that someone could potentially use Android Apps--thus making the odds of them buying my Native BB10 app lower...well, then why bother with BB10?

    It seems to me that they had to compete with Android Developers within the Blackberry user base (regardless of size).
    If you had much less competition within that group, then maybe they would have seen that as having more potential.

    Let's say someone wanted to make a Calorie Counting App for dieting. They say--ok, there are a Million BB10 Customers out there, and I'd like to sell 10,000 copies of my app. It seems if BB10 Customers have access to Native apps AND Android apps, then the odds of him selling to his target are lower--because the competition is much greater.

    Sometimes a niche customer base can be viable.
    Initially, developers had to port and repackage their Android apps for inclusion in BlackBerry World. Normal BB10 users couldn't just willy nilly install any Android app.

    The message was clear almost right away (as to the viability of BB10) when developers didn't even bother to do that (which is relatively easy) - like Netflix and Instagram.
    04-20-18 08:57 AM
  7. KAM1138's Avatar
    Initially, developers had to port and repackage their Android apps for inclusion in BlackBerry World. Normal BB10 users couldn't just willy nilly install any Android app.
    Ah, so in effect--BB10 Developers had that sort of "exclusivity."
    I guess that's right--the Amazon App store was when things opened up (sort of) into Android apps.
    DonHB likes this.
    04-20-18 09:00 AM
  8. glwerry's Avatar
    Yes, someone had answered that the ART was part of the OS from the beginning.

    I think it's probably unlikely looking back that if there was no ART that Blackberry native developers would have come out in huge numbers, but I was wondering if the mindset was: Well, they can use Android Apps, why bother with Native ones."
    I think this was an issue.

    I remember reading a post a long time ago from a developer who stated that they had started out with one app and wound up with TWO development teams - one dedicated to the Android app, the other dedicated to the iOS app.

    My point is that many developers probably looked at the cost to them to develop or support a NATIVE BB10 app and made the decision that it just was not worth it to them to add yet another development team. The costs to do so just outweighed the benefits.

    I have been in this sort of position 3 or 4 times in my career: there is a shift to a new software system and the underlying operating system / software tools. In EVERY case there is a learning curve and a period of mediocre productivity. When you are selling a software product to the public that initial period can be a make or break issue - if you put a mediocre product out then it's going to get bad reviews and ultimately be bad for you.
    04-20-18 09:05 AM
  9. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Yeah, I see what you meant - I did NOT mean to imply that I was pulling for the Nazis to win the war - I was just saying "unfortunately" in the scope of the project to develop the airplane.
    I did get your meaning, but I couldn’t resist the cheap shot. I mean, you just left it wide open.
    04-20-18 09:18 AM
  10. glwerry's Avatar
    I did get your meaning, but I couldn’t resist the cheap shot. I mean, you just left it wide open.
    No worries. I have a long history of allowing mischief to escape the filtering process.
    04-20-18 09:23 AM
  11. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    Yeah, I see what you meant - I did NOT mean to imply that I was pulling for the Nazis to win the war - I was just saying "unfortunately" in the scope of the project to develop the airplane.
    I can vouch for glwerry being anti-Nazi. He's good people, for a Canadian....

    Signed,
    Chuck Finley69
    Proud Merican
    04-20-18 09:51 PM
  12. glwerry's Avatar
    I can vouch for glwerry being anti-Nazi. He's good people, for a Canadian....

    Signed,
    Chuck Finley69
    Proud Merican
    Hah! You funny!

    Behave, or we will send SNOW!!!!!
    04-20-18 10:05 PM
  13. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Hah! You funny!

    Behave, or we will send SNOW!!!!!
    To Tampa? That would be impressive.
    04-21-18 08:42 PM
  14. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    To Tampa? That would be impressive.
    Won't happen. Trump's building a wall and Justin Bieber's paying for it one Looney at time.
    Last edited by Chuck Finley69; 04-22-18 at 08:04 AM. Reason: Grammatical correction for the grammar police. This is also not a political statement.....
    kbz1960 likes this.
    04-22-18 08:02 AM
  15. glwerry's Avatar
    Won't happen. Trump's building a wall and Justin Bieber's paying for it one Looney at time.
    See how smart we Canuks are? We've gone from exporting guys like Neil Young to send you (ugh) Justin Bieber!!!

    Actually, in this case the wall is going to work against you. It will give the snow something to pile up against!

    Here in the Frozen Wastelands of The Great White North, we call them "snowdrifts".

    Oh, cultural note in case you're not as well informed as Chuck, the "Looney" he is referring to is a Canadian dollar coin, not a nutbar from Canada.

    We do have a few nutbars that we could export, though, if y'all are interested.
    04-25-18 08:28 AM
  16. Elephant_Canyon's Avatar
    Here in the Frozen Wastelands of The Great White North, we call them "snowdrifts".
    Here in the subtropical swamplands of Florida, we call it "what the hell is that white powdery stuff, why is it so cold, and why isn't it making me high?"
    04-25-18 08:57 AM
  17. glwerry's Avatar
    Here in the subtropical swamplands of Florida, we call it "what the hell is that white powdery stuff, why is it so cold, and why isn't it making me high?"
    That's pretty funny, even if it gives me concerns about your lifestyle ....

    As a side note, we have had a very late spring ... still have snow laying around, especially in the bush. So, if y'all want some, we can send it down.
    04-25-18 10:46 AM
  18. Chuck Finley69's Avatar
    See how smart we Canuks are? We've gone from exporting guys like Neil Young to send you (ugh) Justin Bieber!!!

    Actually, in this case the wall is going to work against you. It will give the snow something to pile up against!

    Here in the Frozen Wastelands of The Great White North, we call them "snowdrifts".

    Oh, cultural note in case you're not as well informed as Chuck, the "Looney" he is referring to is a Canadian dollar coin, not a nutbar from Canada.

    We do have a few nutbars that we could export, though, if y'all are interested.
    There we go with nutbars and Justin Bieber again. You Canucks are so redundant. We have our version of snowdrifts already...

    It's called "the Beach" .

    This message brought to you by the various tourism organizations that my sales tax helps support. LOL
    04-25-18 02:37 PM
  19. glwerry's Avatar
    There we go with nutbars and Justin Bieber again. You Canucks are so redundant. We have our version of snowdrifts already...

    It's called "the Beach" .

    This message brought to you by the various tourism organizations that my sales tax helps support. LOL
    Ok, I concede ... the "beach" one is just too freaking funny! I'm just not going to be able to top that one.
    04-26-18 11:01 AM
  20. JulesDB's Avatar
    Wow, this has been very enlightening. I had no idea that the software business was so backwards and bloated that a product is so locked into a point in time. Well, at least Blackberry.

    Is this a flaw in BB10's entire concept--that it is so massively inflexible and unworkable? Not just the OS, but First Party Apps as well that require 40 full time employees (or more) to produce a clock, compass, calculator and weather app.

    I'm not kidding--this blows my mind. THOUSANDS of full time employees to take an existing, working product and do ANYTHING with it, except what it is now (current devices).

    So, (no offense), you're saying that Blaze's statement is just totally unrealistic?
    Add that Nemory was alone a semi-god having developed alone a lot of apps.

    So BlackBerry can hire him and save billions
    04-26-18 05:14 PM
  21. anon(10484416)'s Avatar
    I know it's low-ball, but the problem remains.

    The math is pretty straight forward.

    According to the lead developer, here is a picture of the BB10 team that "developed the Clock and Weather apps from scratch, and took over maintenance of the Compass and Calculator apps that had been developed in other parts of BB":https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/201...4823aec95d.jpg
    ... finally, l see them. The ones that made that dreadful OS10 Weather app. Very apt that everybody has both hands up.
    07-03-18 07:54 PM
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